Post-Game Talk: We Blew a 3-0 Lead in the Third Period to the Oilers

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bleedblue94

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hfboards isn't worth getting this worked up about. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions about hockey, but if someone has proven to you that they are confidently wrong about concepts because they haven't played the game, it's really not worth getting this worked up about.
Meh that's not what it is. This has been more of a conflicting person's thing that's been ongoing for weeks. I typically don't care about whether someone has played, everyone has something to contribute here. It was the arrogance about mocking others and discrediting the term that demonstrated it to me. In general I agree with what you say though.
 

Machinehead

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Meh that's not what it is. This has been more of a conflicting person's thing that's been ongoing for weeks. I typically don't care about whether someone has played, everyone has something to contribute here. It was the arrogance about mocking others and discrediting the term that demonstrated it to me. In general I agree with what you say though.
And yet, somebody else actually explained what they thought it was and that went fine. We just had, I thought, a very insightful discussion.

You talk about me not reflecting and not realizing how I come off.

You absolutely crucify "analytics people" on sight.
 

romba

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Trouba is North-South and all we do is bitch about him hur durring muffins from the point or slapping it wide.

Buchnevitch the famous ex GF everyone is still pining over was about as east west as they come with us.

Terms mean shit, it’s simply about skill, chemistry, control, and success.
 

TopShelfSnipes

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Possibly unpopular opinion, but I'd actually prefer them to be more east-west.

They absolutely suck ass at retrieving pucks along the end boards, and the whole turnovers at the blueline leading to a counterpunch the oher way thing is mainly an issue because they insist on trying to 1v1 defenders standing up at the blueline (which they can't do), and all 3 forwards who are skating full steam towards the offensive zone get trapped up ice and have to stop from full speed and skate 125-160 feet the other way to try and defend. Even if in the end, they're destined to turn it over, they'd do better to slow it down through the neutral zone and not be 110% committed to a failing zone entry and pell-mell in the wrong direction when the other team gets the puck back.

They are and look slow. The only way to make up for this is either to go all-in on stretch passes which doesn't work because it's not 2006 anymore, or develop superior offensive positioning and puck movement to compensate for their lack of foot speed.
 

bleedblue94

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And yet, somebody else actually explained what they thought it was and that went fine. We just had, I thought, a very insightful discussion.

You talk about me not reflecting and not realizing how I come off.

You absolutely crucify "analytics people" on sight.

And other people wrote basically the same thing but also gave credit to you by not thinking they needed to spell out the minutia. Next time someone references a slapshot I guess we will wait for someone to explain the intricacies of how high the windup is supposed to be, what a windup is, what a follow through is, how weight shifts, etc.

I openly will admit I'm an ass but with me it generally happens as a retaliatory thing, I rarely try to instigate. Not saying that's right or that I'm proud of it, but it's true.

I actually like analytics with context. They provide good info but aren't for face value only. When people cherry pick an analytics package to simply support the view they want supported it doesn't impress me. Numbers can always be manipulated if they are based on a subjective formula and when you can chose which formula at will based on which package of analytics you want to use on a given day. Analytics are great, so long as you don't stare at them and say pink was shit in ny bc his analytics were bad and suddenly he's a great player the next year in Winnipeg bc his analytics are great. Sometimes good or bad analytics are a byproduct of good structure, good environment, good support, or just a good team playing the right way.
 

bleedblue94

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Also I think this whole NS EW thing is getting a little clouded. Some of the people here complaining about EW hockey are focused on where the puck goes, some of the people stating they want more EW hockey are really looking at where we want the players and passing options to go. The two things are being meshed.

When this team gets into the zone the puck goes side to side a lot but there isn't a lot of player motion. This goes to the concept of being too easy for oppositions to read. Our play and players are stagnant. The passing is cross ice but it doesn't lead to dangerous chances bc there is rarely anything unpredictable or happening away from the puck. I love vally but this is one flaw in his stats package when he starts justifying that the offense should be good bc they make cross ice passes in the OZ, if everyone knows the puck is going across and no one has to respect the shot or shortside then the danger level of cross ice passing drops dramatically.

There are times I would like to see the team be more NS in the NZ, but overall I agree that in the OZ their is a glaring lack of creativity, and that includes panarin. Virtually every player on the roster is predictable. In the OZ I wish there was at times a crease crash mentality like on the Gauthier goal instead of the more passive waiting to see IF there might be a rebound before actively going to the net. Give me some offensive chaos and disruption which should by it's nature open up other offensive options.
 

CLW

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I see a team with “enough skill” (they could really use another top six forward), but is playing like shit. Shit is not really a scientific term, so I’ll try to expand. They’re not hustling, so they’re not creating enough time and space for themselves to unleash their skill. I also see a lot of standing around in the neutral zone, not getting open, while watching Fox, Miller, and Schneider try to carry the puck in, which creates all sorts of issues. These are peewee level problems that can usually be fixed with some yelling from the coach, but they don’t seem to be responding to Gallant right now.
The problem stems from Gallant. For whatever reason he wants them to play like that. Gallant wants a team that creates turnovers by the opponents blue line and attack from there. He is happy to play dump-from-the-red-line-and-not-chase and forecheck/create turnovers just inside the offensive blue line. He wants a team that scores goals like Gauthier's 3-0 goal, which is why he sends the kids to stand by the crease to wrestle with the D.

The team literally cannot play up to it's talent level this way. Zib, Panarin, Kakko, Laffy et al are not best served by this, far from it. Kreider, Tro, Gaut are fine with it. Apparently the stats say the Rangers create a lot of High Danger Chances, but the players are stationary most of the time they get them so they struggle to get past the goalie/find an angle to shoot (= post out galore). The team is full of dynamic players asked to play static hockey. The kids are *awesome* at winning puck battles along the boards in the o-zone, but then, since the D is not really activated, galaxy brain Fox the exception, they struggle to build on it (see Fil's goal from Miller against Tampa for a positive example of activation). Boston or Colorado eg plays dynamic hockey with 5 players moving to support each other, and in unison create space for a surprise shot against a stretched/overplayed goalie, the Rangers are static in comparison with some players moving which does not create the same effect at all.

In short: This team is full of offensive players that need to be moving to unlock them, but the tactical deployment does not facilitate that.
 

Machinehead

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Jan 21, 2011
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And other people wrote basically the same thing but also gave credit to you by not thinking they needed to spell out the minutia. Next time someone references a slapshot I guess we will wait for someone to explain the intricacies of how high the windup is supposed to be, what a windup is, what a follow through is, how weight shifts, etc.

I openly will admit I'm an ass but with me it generally happens as a retaliatory thing, I rarely try to instigate. Not saying that's right or that I'm proud of it, but it's true.

I actually like analytics with context. They provide good info but aren't for face value only. When people cherry pick an analytics package to simply support the view they want supported it doesn't impress me. Numbers can always be manipulated if they are based on a subjective formula and when you can chose which formula at will based on which package of analytics you want to use on a given day. Analytics are great, so long as you don't stare at them and say pink was shit in ny bc his analytics were bad and suddenly he's a great player the next year in Winnipeg bc his analytics are great. Sometimes good or bad analytics are a byproduct of good structure, good environment, good support, or just a good team playing the right way.
Well I'm glad you openly admit it.

I openly admit I'm sarcastic.

I've been here 12 years in January. I know enough to know that sometimes you can have a discussion and sometimes you have to call it out as "that's an agenda and you know it's an agenda." There are people on here who will pretty much admit they don't like Trouba, they didn't like Georgiev, they hate this coach and already hate the next one, and they don't like the team. Sometimes the healthiest thing for the board is just to add some levity to it instead of engaging in it and giving it legitimacy. I know Edge and a lot of the old guard just as well as anyone and they were driven away by the meme posters being given legitimacy, and we're trying to get away from that.

I literally had people -maybe not you, but it happened- telling me North/South hockey was to move laterally. That's a bold-faced contradiction. I'm not going to treat that seriously. And when I say it's a platitude, that's not to say it's can't have meaning. But it can and is used by people to mean what they want it to mean, just like grit, character, etc. That's not to say you can't use analytics that way. You can use most things that way.

I'm not perfect. I read the Georgiev shit all last year, thought about Girardi, and said to myself, "my God, did I sound like that?" You have to be careful what you lend credence to. Every opinion being equally respected becomes toxic.

Do well-meaning people sometimes get caught in the crossfire? Sure. Again, I'm not perfect.

For the sake of full disclosure, I didn't volunteer for this role. I was asked to do it. I may not be perfect but I'm respected enough by the board to be an important voice here, and ever since that one comment about not reading your post, you're always out to butt heads with me.

I'm sorry if that was disrespectful. You wrote Moby Dick in the middle of a GDT and I thought, as a mod, that we just needed to get back to the GDT. That's all. That doesn't mean I'm dismissive of every comment that isn't my own.
 

Leonardo87

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Rangers organization doesn’t have patience. They wanted to rush this last rebuild and signed guys like Panarin and Trouba to big contracts. Then instead of giving Chytil a shot at 2C they go out and sign Trocheck for 6 years. They rather go after that big free agent who ends up being bought out (see Brad Richards), rather than being patient with drafting and developing.
 

WhereO Is Kakko

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Trouba is North-South and all we do is bitch about him hur durring muffins from the point or slapping it wide.

Buchnevitch the famous ex GF everyone is still pining over was about as east west as they come with us.

Terms mean shit, it’s simply about skill, chemistry, control, and success.
Respectfully I think there’s more to Trouba’s game to bitch about outside of his 0 for 54 shooting %.

His breakout passes are rarely a thing of beauty. I still can’t get over the pass he made in the third period Saturday - while the Rangers Fs were in the midst of a line change, he barreled the puck into their skates AT THE BENCH!!!

No one open
No one expecting
Risked a too many men

Oilers come back basically unchallenged the other way, right away, and Trouba gives up the tying goal with zero gap control.

That was 2022-2023 Trouba in a nutshell.
 

Machinehead

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Rangers organization doesn’t have patience. They wanted to rush this last rebuild and signed guys like Panarin and Trouba to big contracts. Then instead of giving Chytil a shot at 2C they go out and sign Trocheck for 6 years. They rather go after that big free agent who ends up being bought out (see Brad Richards), rather than being patient with drafting and developing.
I think you could also apply this to coaching.

They went out and got the big name in Gallant where I think, even if you like Gallant, you have to admit he's a finished-product coach.
 

CLW

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Respectfully I think there’s more to Trouba’s game to bitch about outside of his 0 for 54 shooting %.

His breakout passes are rarely a thing of beauty. I still can’t get over the pass he made in the third period Saturday - while the Rangers Fs were in the midst of a line change, he barreled the puck into their skates AT THE BENCH!!!

No one open
No one expecting
Risked a too many men

Oilers come back basically unchallenged the other way, right away, and Trouba gives up the tying goal with zero gap control.

That was 2022-2023 Trouba in a nutshell.
That play did my head in too. I don't care about "injured", no injury had a part of that play and it's not the only stupefying play he's made this season. He is mentally overwhelmed if anything and that's not a good sign for the Ranger's season, he needs to snap out of it.
 

bleedblue94

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Well I'm glad you openly admit it.

I openly admit I'm sarcastic.

I've been here 12 years in January. I know enough to know that sometimes you can have a discussion and sometimes you have to call it out as "that's an agenda and you know it's an agenda." There are people on here who will pretty much admit they don't like Trouba, they didn't like Georgiev, they hate this coach and already hate the next one, and they don't like the team. Sometimes the healthiest thing for the board is just to add some levity to it instead of engaging in it and giving it legitimacy. I know Edge and a lot of the old guard just as well as anyone and they were driven away by the meme posters being given legitimacy, and we're trying to get away from that.

I literally had people -maybe not you, but it happened- telling me North/South hockey was to move laterally. That's a bold-faced contradiction. I'm not going to treat that seriously. And when I say it's a platitude, that's not to say it's can't have meaning. But it can and is used by people to mean what they want it to mean, just like grit, character, etc. That's not to say you can't use analytics that way. You can use most things that way.

I'm not perfect. I read the Georgiev shit all last year, thought about Girardi, and said to myself, "my God, did I sound like that?" You have to be careful what you lend credence to. Every opinion being equally respected becomes toxic.

Do well-meaning people sometimes get caught in the crossfire? Sure. Again, I'm not perfect.

For the sake of full disclosure, I didn't volunteer for this role. I was asked to do it. I may not be perfect but I'm respected enough by the board to be an important voice here, and ever since that one comment about not reading your post, you're always out to butt heads with me.

I'm sorry if that was disrespectful. You wrote Moby Dick in the middle of a GDT and I thought, as a mod, that we just needed to get back to the GDT. That's all. That doesn't mean I'm dismissive of every comment that isn't my own.
Some of this I agree with and some is rewriting history. I'm not going dissect it all but if you think our bickering stems from the comment about not wanting to read the post then that explains a lot of the disconnect bc that had nothing to do with it. It had more to do with your reaction to me saying that your post was childish in nature, really ever since that point we have been going back and forth. Why would I care that you didn't read my post? 😂 Seriously, why would anyone care about that. The level of self importance that projects is astounding, who cares.

You tensed up and copped an attitude when I said your (that) post reply was childish in nature, and it was bc you were passive aggresively making a point, as you often do. You could have just ignored the post and moved on, but you made a conscious choice to post that with a smugness to make a point and got insanely defensive when I said it was childish. Two extremes there.

And then you turned around and deleted everything including your threat to me in the reply to the childish comment. That is the biggest reason why I have an issue. You obviously knew you were wrong when you threatened me and then delete it all while still pretending it didn't happen (numerous people liked the post before it was deleted where I pointed out the threat and abuse of forum power), and since that point whenever we have a civil convo everything is fine, but when you disagree with me you get condescending or start manipulating my words and try to get me to argue against something I didn't actually say. That's why there has been this ongoing issue.

We are just two people posting in an internet forum about hockey. I don't know you personally nor you me. Nothing that's been said is personal and I honestly have no clue why you think I would care that you read my posts. I don't at all. But threatening me when I say that a response is childish in nature isn't cool in at all, and then deleting it to hide it doesn't help. It's an abuse of power and I have no respect for that kind of garbage.
 
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CLW

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Rangers organization doesn’t have patience. They wanted to rush this last rebuild and signed guys like Panarin and Trouba to big contracts. Then instead of giving Chytil a shot at 2C they go out and sign Trocheck for 6 years. They rather go after that big free agent who ends up being bought out (see Brad Richards), rather than being patient with drafting and developing.
Bottom line is the Rangers have to be in the playoff circus, the rest are clowns for the show, including the "stars". Cup pursuit is there in theory only. It's like an eternal rerun of a Broadway Show.

I wonder how the kids will survive this. Maybe they are better off elsewhere.
 
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bleedblue94

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Rangers organization doesn’t have patience. They wanted to rush this last rebuild and signed guys like Panarin and Trouba to big contracts. Then instead of giving Chytil a shot at 2C they go out and sign Trocheck for 6 years. They rather go after that big free agent who ends up being bought out (see Brad Richards), rather than being patient with drafting and developing.
In their defense the panarin thing fell in their lap. They didn't actively go after him, he wanted to be here and they adjusted to take in a star talent. Back then no one could've predicted they win the laffy lottery. Same with trouba. For years people wanted an all situations top 4 rd and trouba fell in their lap. People here literally mocked the trade bc it was so cheap. Then fox becomes a Norris level revelation for this franchise and the situation is different for trouba. Hell I remember his first game here and he's out on pp1 and scores with a bomb. Everyone was so happy.

The issue is organizationally they won't adjust and keep compounding problems. They have three top 6 lws and won't do anything about it except bury their 1oa pick or have him play out of position among other things. Is this team winning this year as it is, no. Can it winning the future of the young core evolves and is cultivated, maybe. That is what I mean about changing direction and not compounding issues like with this trocheck contract.
 

WhereO Is Kakko

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I think you could also apply this to coaching.

They went out and got the big name in Gallant where I think, even if you like Gallant, you have to admit he's a finished-product coach.
Can you elaborate - what is a “finished product” coach? (does this mean he can only coach vets?)
 

Machinehead

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Can you elaborate - what is a “finished product” coach? (does this mean he can only coach vets?)
I would define it as a players coach who can manage personalities and make guys feel comfortable, after a clear structure already exists.

Torts and AV are a great example of the two types I'm talking about. Torts developed the 2014 and 2015 teams and AV was their finished-product coach.

Torts always seems to improve young teams to a certain point, but he has a shelf-life and despite winning the Cup in 2004 (in a very different league), I think he would require perfect circumstances to win one again. At the end of the day, he established a clear identity for the Rangers in his time here, but he probably was never the coach they were winning with.

AV came into a structured team at the perfect time and gave them just enough freedom to start scoring. As soon as the roster changed away from Torts and he had to implement his own plan, it got worse and worse.
 

Machinehead

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I think people looked at Gallant in Vegas (and I made this mistake also) and tipped him as a "get the most out of your guys" development type of coach. Edge, good on him, was having none of that.

In retrospect, Vegas had extraordinary luck in extraordinary circumstances and got handed a talented, veteran team right out of the gate. Gallant walks in on a team with nothing to lose, gets them in a good mindset, and just let's them play. It was lightning in a bottle.

As soon as they became a legit contender with a target and expectations, and Gallant had to make a gameplan, it got worse every year.

I think Gallant is a good coach when he's walking into a good situation, which isn't as easy as I'm making it sound. His ability to win games speaks to that. That said, this team clearly has learning to do to get the most out of what they have and he's probably not that guy. He never has been.

He won games on Florida teams that had no business winning games but Barkov and Huberdeau took the wheel after he left.
 

gravey9

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The problem stems from Gallant. For whatever reason he wants them to play like that. Gallant wants a team that creates turnovers by the opponents blue line and attack from there. He is happy to play dump-from-the-red-line-and-not-chase and forecheck/create turnovers just inside the offensive blue line. He wants a team that scores goals like Gauthier's 3-0 goal, which is why he sends the kids to stand by the crease to wrestle with the D.

The team literally cannot play up to it's talent level this way. Zib, Panarin, Kakko, Laffy et al are not best served by this, far from it. Kreider, Tro, Gaut are fine with it. Apparently the stats say the Rangers create a lot of High Danger Chances, but the players are stationary most of the time they get them so they struggle to get past the goalie/find an angle to shoot (= post out galore). The team is full of dynamic players asked to play static hockey. The kids are *awesome* at winning puck battles along the boards in the o-zone, but then, since the D is not really activated, galaxy brain Fox the exception, they struggle to build on it (see Fil's goal from Miller against Tampa for a positive example of activation). Boston or Colorado eg plays dynamic hockey with 5 players moving to support each other, and in unison create space for a surprise shot against a stretched/overplayed goalie, the Rangers are static in comparison with some players moving which does not create the same effect at all.

In short: This team is full of offensive players that need to be moving to unlock them, but the tactical deployment does not facilitate that.
Just catching up on this playing style/systems thread and I just want to thank @Machinehead, @CLW, @Crease for making strong, salient points. This is the conversation I've been wanting to have for weeks and I'm excited to see you guys having it. It's clear to me, the main issues are the system/playing style in combo with a lack of commitment from the team.

I just wanted to add that in the Ducks game I attended, the Rangers were very effective at dumping, chasing recovering. Like, elite good. It worked almost every time. And then... they just stopped doing it. The Ducks didn't force them to start dipsy-dooing. They didn't force them in any way from not dumping. They scored a cheap goal or two that shouldn't have happened and we lost our game.

I would say, since the forwards got healthy, the bottom 6 have been above average at dumping and chasing and recovering. That style has been far more effective than trying to carry the puck over the blue line. This style also allows forwards to stay on the right side of the puck more often than not. It's also allowed guys like Kakko, Laffy, Blais, Gaut and Carpenter to play faster. When we manage the puck and focus on just getting it deep, we're not a slow team at all. We're slow when we play disjointed and not commiting to a style. I think our PP, on the other hand, has been atrocious at zone entry and poor at recovery. And yes, once we set up, we get too stagnant but we're having more issues with just zone entry right now.

That said, when we lack structure and puck support, we start failing all over the ice. The middle of the ice opens up for the other team and then we expect Shesty to save us. On top of that, our D Corps in general has looked very subpar this year and I don't think it's about talent and skill. It's a bit about injuries. But in general, they're being asked to do too much because the forwards are not playing a committed brand of hockey.

While I don't love Panarin playing with Zib, Kreider because, frankly, I don't trust that unit 5v5 to play a complete game, and I also don't love "rewarding" Panarin's careless play, I think putting them together allows for 3 other lines that actually all play the same way. A bit more "north south." A bit more grind it out in the offensive zone. Having 3 lines (ideally 4!) that consistently do that becomes highly effective, esp come playoffs.

While I totally agree that the cycling in the offensive zone hasn't led to enough scoring and that our play away from the puck in the offensive zone is super stagnant and predictable, I think we have even bigger issues in our own zone. If we did a better job blocking shots at the point, clearing net front and limiting second chances, we could be limiting opponents to fewer goals. We would then have confidence and a base from which to build out our game. LIke, if you know you can shut down opponents, then the pressure to score goes down and players stop holding the sticks so tightly.

But we've been particularly poor in our own zone. Inconsistent at best. And it's really felt like a team-wide issue. To me, that's mostly effort. We don't need to be the Torts Rangers but can we actually try to block some shots?

As for the predictability of offense. I do think the Rangers need to be far better at supporting the puck and moving without it. Both at ES and on the PP.

But we need to prioritize one style just so linemates will have a sense of where each other are. For instance, we are not great at setting up screen shots. We do well to cycle and get the puck back to the point, but we do nothing to create havoc in front. Few screens, tips, deflections and rebounds. Few battles won in front. Not a lot of second chances on jam plays. We get within 5 feet of the net and we're busy looking to force a pass and make a low percentage deke. If your linemates know when you're 5ft away from the net, you're going to jam it, then he can drive to the net for a rebound. And if the guy with the puck knows you're driving to the net looking for that rebound then he can pass it off the goalies pads. But none of this is happening. I would argue that the team is not only stagnant w/o the puck but also somehow the puck carrier is often not predictable enough for their linemates either. We are neither the AV Rangers nor the Torts Rangers. And that's asking a lot of your team to sort out when trying to score. And it's also not the best way to develop young forwards.

At this point, i believe the team needs to commit to playing a certain way as an entire team -- so they can rebuild their game from the ground up. Or we need a new coach who will lay down the law. The problem is -- given the salary cap issues the team is facing, most new coaches may be just as neutered as Gallant. But I would argue that there's not a strong enough system, style of play in place and it's leading to dysfunction all over the ice. The NHL game is too fast, you have to find ways to "slow it down" mentally.
 

bleedblue94

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I think people looked at Gallant in Vegas (and I made this mistake also) and tipped him as a "get the most out of your guys" development type of coach. Edge, good on him, was having none of that.

In retrospect, Vegas had extraordinary luck in extraordinary circumstances and got handed a talented, veteran team right out of the gate. Gallant walks in on a team with nothing to lose, gets them in a good mindset, and just let's them play. It was lightning in a bottle.

As soon as they became a legit contender with a target and expectations, and Gallant had to make a gameplan, it got worse every year.

I think Gallant is a good coach when he's walking into a good situation, which isn't as easy as I'm making it sound. His ability to win games speaks to that. That said, this team clearly has learning to do to get the most out of what they have and he's probably not that guy. He never has been.

He won games on Florida teams that had no business winning games but Barkov and Huberdeau took the wheel after he left.
Agree with all of this as well. I think though that the expectation on Turk by most is off to some degree (see below). He is very good at managing people and he masterful at managing the nyc media. Where he fails is the accountability area. It's like inmates running the asylum here. Players do what they want and play how they want.

As for the tactics, game planning, structure, that is on Kelly. I don't know how he has escaped criticism here but most of the on ice plays, strategy, X's and O's are Kelly. Turk even says as much, and it's quite common now in the NHL for the HC to be managing the players while the assistants are managing their own realm of the team structure.

That being said Turk and Kelly have been attached at the hip forever so it's no surprise that the issues that historically follow Turk have also followed him here when a lot of those issues are responsibilities that Kelly has held under Turk forever.

Edge was completely right with what to expect and what to fear.
 

TheDirtyH

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Just catching up on this playing style/systems thread and I just want to thank @Machinehead, @CLW, @Crease for making strong, salient points. This is the conversation I've been wanting to have for weeks and I'm excited to see you guys having it. It's clear to me, the main issues are the system/playing style in combo with a lack of commitment from the team.

I just wanted to add that in the Ducks game I attended, the Rangers were very effective at dumping, chasing recovering. Like, elite good. It worked almost every time. And then... they just stopped doing it. The Ducks didn't force them to start dipsy-dooing. They didn't force them in any way from not dumping. They scored a cheap goal or two that shouldn't have happened and we lost our game.

I would say, since the forwards got healthy, the bottom 6 have been above average at dumping and chasing and recovering. That style has been far more effective than trying to carry the puck over the blue line. This style also allows forwards to stay on the right side of the puck more often than not. It's also allowed guys like Kakko, Laffy, Blais, Gaut and Carpenter to play faster. When we manage the puck and focus on just getting it deep, we're not a slow team at all. We're slow when we play disjointed and not commiting to a style. I think our PP, on the other hand, has been atrocious at zone entry and poor at recovery. And yes, once we set up, we get too stagnant but we're having more issues with just zone entry right now.

That said, when we lack structure and puck support, we start failing all over the ice. The middle of the ice opens up for the other team and then we expect Shesty to save us. On top of that, our D Corps in general has looked very subpar this year and I don't think it's about talent and skill. It's a bit about injuries. But in general, they're being asked to do too much because the forwards are not playing a committed brand of hockey.

While I don't love Panarin playing with Zib, Kreider because, frankly, I don't trust that unit 5v5 to play a complete game, and I also don't love "rewarding" Panarin's careless play, I think putting them together allows for 3 other lines that actually all play the same way. A bit more "north south." A bit more grind it out in the offensive zone. Having 3 lines (ideally 4!) that consistently do that becomes highly effective, esp come playoffs.

While I totally agree that the cycling in the offensive zone hasn't led to enough scoring and that our play away from the puck in the offensive zone is super stagnant and predictable, I think we have even bigger issues in our own zone. If we did a better job blocking shots at the point, clearing net front and limiting second chances, we could be limiting opponents to fewer goals. We would then have confidence and a base from which to build out our game. LIke, if you know you can shut down opponents, then the pressure to score goes down and players stop holding the sticks so tightly.

But we've been particularly poor in our own zone. Inconsistent at best. And it's really felt like a team-wide issue. To me, that's mostly effort. We don't need to be the Torts Rangers but can we actually try to block some shots?

As for the predictability of offense. I do think the Rangers need to be far better at supporting the puck and moving without it. Both at ES and on the PP.

But we need to prioritize one style just so linemates will have a sense of where each other are. For instance, we are not great at setting up screen shots. We do well to cycle and get the puck back to the point, but we do nothing to create havoc in front. Few screens, tips, deflections and rebounds. Few battles won in front. Not a lot of second chances on jam plays. We get within 5 feet of the net and we're busy looking to force a pass and make a low percentage deke. If your linemates know when you're 5ft away from the net, you're going to jam it, then he can drive to the net for a rebound. And if the guy with the puck knows you're driving to the net looking for that rebound then he can pass it off the goalies pads. But none of this is happening. I would argue that the team is not only stagnant w/o the puck but also somehow the puck carrier is often not predictable enough for their linemates either. We are neither the AV Rangers nor the Torts Rangers. And that's asking a lot of your team to sort out when trying to score. And it's also not the best way to develop young forwards.

At this point, i believe the team needs to commit to playing a certain way as an entire team -- so they can rebuild their game from the ground up. Or we need a new coach who will lay down the law. The problem is -- given the salary cap issues the team is facing, most new coaches may be just as neutered as Gallant. But I would argue that there's not a strong enough system, style of play in place and it's leading to dysfunction all over the ice. The NHL game is too fast, you have to find ways to "slow it down" mentally.
Excellent post. As you and @CLW point out, this team has a problem with players knowing what they need to be doing and reading off of one another. It's not so much a problem of too much skill or E/W, nor not enough skill and too much N/S; it's an issue of commitment on a shift by shift basis, and at every position.

I do think our defense has a lot more of the blame here than is usually suggested, but I also think that it's the D-corps we have. It's no mystery that we're a much better team when Zac Jones is in the lineup, and it's for this reason.

What I can't say is whether this is an issue of 'systems' or of cohesion, though in either case (and I do think it's more of the latter), it is a problem of coaching. It's also a problem that getting stellar goaltending can help improve, not just because it covers warts, but because so much of the problem has to be in the players' heads: they have to trust one another and play without fear. With the goaltending we've gotten this year, it's not a surprise to me that the team would grow less consistent.

Our last game against the Isles is a great example of a game we so deserved to win. For my money it was the best game we've played all year. But Igor blew it for us. A team like Tampa doesn't sweat not scoring because they know their goalie will match or best anything any other team has in their net. They win series clinchers 1-0. We had that same swagger last season.

These are just some things additional to what you've already put down, since your post was so comprehensive otherwise.

I don't know what the solution is—or at least, if I think I do, I'm definitely not sure how we get to it. Does firing the coach send the right message? It has for many other teams in the past. Do we have somebody next in line? Someone we'd be looking at? I'd be much more interested in a Mike Babcock than a Barry Trotz, personally. I think Trotz is an insanely overrated coach, always have. What do we have in Kris Knoblauch? Does anybody know much about him?
 

mandiblesofdoom

Registered User
May 24, 2012
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Respectfully I think there’s more to Trouba’s game to bitch about outside of his 0 for 54 shooting %.

His breakout passes are rarely a thing of beauty. I still can’t get over the pass he made in the third period Saturday - while the Rangers Fs were in the midst of a line change, he barreled the puck into their skates AT THE BENCH!!!

No one open
No one expecting
Risked a too many men

Oilers come back basically unchallenged the other way, right away, and Trouba gives up the tying goal with zero gap control.

That was 2022-2023 Trouba in a nutshell.
That was an amazing sequence for sure. He was like "I'll just close my eyes & hope for the best here."

That play did my head in too. I don't care about "injured", no injury had a part of that play and it's not the only stupefying play he's made this season. He is mentally overwhelmed if anything and that's not a good sign for the Ranger's season, he needs to snap out of it.

"Mentally overwhelmed" is a theme for Rangers D-men.
 
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