GDT: Washington @ New Jersey | 11/26/22 | 7:00p ET

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Brian23

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Gmbm loves eller. Got him signed him. Then gave him a long term deal.

GMBM since the very first offseason he vacate gm has been pretty trash.
This just makes zero sense too me. Eller was undoubtedly worth the contract he originally had when signed, and was good when he resigned. His slow decline is what it is, but I don't think anyone expected him to fall off a cliff. But beyond that, GMBM did try to give Lavi an option to play over him, CMM. Lavi refused to play him.

Like, Lavi is the one deciding deployments. He's the reason Eller had more ice time then basically every other forward this game. Lavi is the one trotting out Eller and Gus and Irwin and all these aging veterans who're bringing little to the team instead of playing the young guys that the GM has put on the bench.

It's like people don't know what a GM actually does.
 

SherVaughn30

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Both those goalies are still terrible and will be a big part of why their respective teams don't go far
Have to correct you a bit there. If the Devils think Vitek will hold up as their #1 and playoff goalie, then they are gonna be disappointed with the result. Sammy though injured, has looked more controlled in his movements where he was never that way playing for us. He has a good mentor in 2-time Cup winning goalie Matt Murray to learn from. Both goalies have faster/better teams playing in front of them, so they don't have to face so many high danger shots like they did with the Caps. Neither Sammy/Vitek are terrible, as their developments with the Caps were accelerated too fast.
 
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PlushMinus

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Overall, I thought the Caps out played the Devils, however their speed transition game on a back to back was going to hurt the Caps. Unfortunately, VV made some great saves that he didn't do often here. As Hivemind says, "Fire Scott Murray"! I have to give VV some credit in this game and oh our defense sucks at playing defense.
Yeah the Caps actually played better than the scoreboard reflects, but the Devils appear to have finally gotten their shit together and could be a very good Metro team for the foreseeable future.

Mantha continuing to tank his own career. Demoted to 3rd line and looks like now he's lost his PP2 spot (only 14 seconds tonight). He was a -3 and had ZERO hits in 13 mins of ice time.
 
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SpinningEdge

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This just makes zero sense too me. Eller was undoubtedly worth the contract he originally had when signed, and was good when he resigned. His slow decline is what it is, but I don't think anyone expected him to fall off a cliff. But beyond that, GMBM did try to give Lavi an option to play over him, CMM. Lavi refused to play him.

Like, Lavi is the one deciding deployments. He's the reason Eller had more ice time then basically every other forward this game. Lavi is the one trotting out Eller and Gus and Irwin and all these aging veterans who're bringing little to the team instead of playing the young guys that the GM has put on the bench.

It's like people don't know what a GM actually does.
Well it’s about putting a winning team on ice in three seasons and ever since winning the cup with the majority of a gmgm roster and the coach being hired by dick and ted - it has been a decline since.

He hasn’t produced any real good prospects. Hershey is regarded as a bottom 10 development into nhl player minor leagues. He messed up and didn’t fight for trotz to stay with a new contract. Then let the worst coach since Oates (maybe even worse than him) take over and get absolutely dominated/outcoacged for way too long - got dominated in 3+ playoffs, his free agency signing have been absolutely trash past few years, and now is a bottom 10 team almost 1/3 of the season.

Oh, and we are old with few prospects to have hope it’ll get any better. The few guys we do have hope on get 5 mins a game and benched in they don’t play while Hagelin, eller, hathaway, down, etc all get 3-4x the minutes.

You gotta fire them very soon bc they know if they don’t win they’re fired anyways - and they will keep playing eller a ton of mins and bench/ruin our youth til that happens.

If entire coaching staff was fired tomorrow and they gave the bears guy a interim (or someone else) and point was to just develop the young guys and force feed Ovi for goals - it literally cannot be much worse. What? We go from a bottom 5-10 team to a bottom 5 team that gets us a legit top end draft pick? Oh no!!!
 
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RedRocking

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I missed the game, but was it as bad as the score?
Strange to say, but that was one of the better played 4 goal losses that I can remember. Caps far out-chanced the Devs, and carried play most of the night. Just terrible puck luck on both ends. Caps could have easily potted 6.

But, VV seemed really focused and determined to beat his old team. And some bone headed plays by Eller, Gus lead to goals.

Losing to the hottest team in league on the road, in a back to back, is no great shame - despite people dooming and glooming. Plus, the Rangos and Pens lost in regulation.

Caps’ PDO dropped from 1029 in October to 976 in November. The former third best; the latter third worst. That number can regress towards the mean if the team’s finishing improves via luck or skill, and with more consistency in net.

Hopefully they can start burying more of their chances and get on a roll in Vancouver. Maybe Orlov finally returns and helps some of the defensive lapses.
 
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Jags

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GMBM did try to give Lavi an option to play over him, CMM. Lavi refused to play him.

Meh. I was all for moving Eller and letting McMichael run with it, but you can't give MacLellan credit for this. If a GM wants to make a move, he should make it. If you want him to start one guy over another and you're going to get bent when he doesn't, that's on you. Trade the other guy. Give him no choice. You can't let the coach manage the team. That's your job.

It's like that Aaron Sorkin quote...

"Who said that?"
"Said what?"
"If you want me to cook the meal, you gotta let me shop for the groceries."
"Bill Parcells."
"Who's that?"
"A football coach that hasn't won a playoff game in nine years."
I like MacLellan, but he needs to be more decisive. It's like he keeps hedging to give himself cover if his ideas fail. "But boss, I wanted him to play the kid; he just didn't!" Lost too many good, young, cost-controlled players that way. If he learns this one lesson, he'd be one of the best GMs in the league.
 

trick9

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Jun 2, 2013
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Our roster by age:

Goat goal-scorer @ 37 - lazy floater @ 30 - Utility tool @ 30

Waiver pick-up @ 26 - Bargain bin replacement @ 25 - Old and broken @ 35

Bigger and lazier floater @ 28 - Tiger nearing retirement @ 33 - Guy who is only on roster to keep pushing Backstrom to come back and save us @ 32

The gentle giant @ 21 - Reliable veteran @ 32 - Veteran who makes sure we take enough stupid penalties @ 31
 

AlexBrovechkin8

At least there was 2018.
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They actually played pretty well. They hit three posts/crossbars and Vanny played out of his mind while Lindgren did not. Carlson and Eller were awful but generally they were pretty good.

Special teams though, yikes. 0-2 on the PP in the first and 0-1 on the PK was the difference in being able to capitalize on their dominant first period or instead going into the locker room losing despite being the much better team.
 

pman25

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Back to back against the hottest team out there so that’s fine but man I didn’t get to watch much. Was Eller supposed to be our shut down Jack Hughes guy? Seems like it went well!
 
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Brian23

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Well it’s about putting a winning team on ice in three seasons and ever since winning the cup with the majority of a gmgm roster and the coach being hired by dick and ted - it has been a decline since.
Since winning the cup they're 178 - 98 - 36, that's including this years stats. Outside of 16 and 17, that's basically as good or better as they've been for a decade.

He hasn’t produced any real good prospects. Hershey is regarded as a bottom 10 development into nhl player minor leagues.
That's as much a product of going "all in" for multiple years in a row, which was requested by the fanbase in it's entirety, as anything else. And they've still produced good players, but the coaching staffs refused to use them. Since being GM he brought in Vrana, Vanecek, Samsonov, Siegenthaler, Fehervary, Lapierre, Protas, and CMM. That's ignoring them graduating guys like Stephensen and Schmidt and then just refusing to play them in anything but a short minute grinder role. The only really awful draft is probably the 2016 draft, but we have no idea what we have in Lucas Johansen so that could go from awful to meh. 2017 they didn't pick until the 4th round. From 18 on the coaching staff is refusing to allow prospects to truly graduate.

But he was with us long before 14 too, and as Director of Player Personnel and Assistant GM. He also drafted guys like Burakovsky, Sanford, Forsberg, Wilson, Stephenson, Kuznetsov, Johansson, Orlov, Eakin, and Carlson. Guess he's just trash at getting prospects.
Then let the worst coach since Oates (maybe even worse than him) take over and get absolutely dominated/outcoacged for way too long
Reirden was the heir apparent from the get go, and Ted was the one who was the deciding factor on those calls. At least give Ted some credit, he fired him extremely fast for his normal time frame but I'm not sure how you can put all, or even most, of that blame on GMBM.
his free agency signing have been absolutely trash past few years, and now is a bottom 10 team almost 1/3 of the season.
Milano? Strome? Kuemper? Lindgren? Sheary? Trevor Van Riemsdyk? It's kinda ridiculous to try to invalidate literally everything someone's done because they've done bad right now. You have to take into account, and I feel put more weight into, judging a team on the process then only the results. And GMBM has had, generally, a very good process.
Oh, and we are old with few prospects to have hope it’ll get any better. The few guys we do have hope on get 5 mins a game and benched in they don’t play while Hagelin, eller, hathaway, down, etc all get 3-4x the minutes.
These are all complaints against Lavi, dunno what it has to do with GMBM.
Meh. I was all for moving Eller and letting McMichael run with it, but you can't give MacLellan credit for this. If a GM wants to make a move, he should make it. If you want him to start one guy over another and you're going to get bent when he doesn't, that's on you. Trade the other guy. Give him no choice. You can't let the coach manage the team. That's your job.
That isn't how real life works though. If a GM started just unloading anyone the coach liked he wouldn't have a job very long. The way I've always looked at it is your Coach is the chef and the GM is closer to the product supplier. You can give the Chef all the ingredients you want but what he makes is up to him.
I like MacLellan, but he needs to be more decisive. It's like he keeps hedging to give himself cover if his ideas fail. "But boss, I wanted him to play the kid; he just didn't!" Lost too many good, young, cost-controlled players that way. If he learns this one lesson, he'd be one of the best GMs in the league.
But like...that's literally what you want from your front office. That'd be awful GMing if you don't try to set up redundancies in personnel decision making. The goal should probably have been they rode someone like CMM as a top 3 center and if he fails you have Eller to fall back on.

And I feel like anyone really doo doo'ing on Eller right now is using a lot of hindsight. He hasn't been as dominant as he was in 18 or 19, but he was still perfectly fine as a bottom 2 center last year. His drop off in ability was not overly apparent.
 
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Jags

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That isn't how real life works though. If a GM started just unloading anyone the coach liked he wouldn't have a job very long.

Maybe if you're moving players that are still having a real impact or are still a fit for the personnel around them. That's not the case anymore. I'm not talking about Eller like he's not 2019 Eller anymore. He is, at least for the most part. But his linemates aren't Hagelin and Panik anymore. He has offensive talent around him now, and he's not a guy that can help them do what they do best. He's no longer a fit.

But like...that's literally what you want from your front office. That'd be awful GMing if you don't try to set up redundancies in personnel decision making. The goal should probably have been they rode someone like CMM as a top 3 center and if he fails you have Eller to fall back on.

You're talking like Eller is the only option; that sinking $3.5m into a poor fit is a good idea whether he's your first option or your fifth. Sign a center to a tryout or pick up another one. Settling for a guy that's hamstringing the talent around him just because he's already here is lazy at best.

There was no version of this story where depth scoring wouldn't be crucial for us this year. Eller was never even remotely a solution for that problem, even on his best day.

And I feel like anyone really doo doo'ing on Eller right now is using a lot of hindsight. He hasn't been as dominant as he was in 18 or 19, but he was still perfectly fine as a bottom 2 center last year. His drop off in ability was not overly apparent.

It takes zero hindsight to recognize that Eller isn't contributing much of anything right now, just like it would have required zero foresight in the offseason to know that Eller wasn't an ideal fit for what we'd need going into the year.

This isn't about the decline of Eller or the anointing of McMichael. Eller is no longer a fit for what we need from the 3C spot and isn't equipped to help leverage the talent on his wings.
 
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Hivemind

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I missed the game, but was it as bad as the score?
First period was good, with a Carlson flub leading to a goal against while some posts and VV stopped them at the other end. Next two periods were lackluster at best, while numerous Eller, Carlson, and Gustafsson brain farts combined with Lindgren giving up a softy from an extreme angle and the Capitals making life easy on VV.
 
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twabby

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I think a lot of people were calling for Eller to be traded in the offseason. Hardly hindsight.

The fact is Washington needs impact top 6 players and we know for a fact Eller isn't that guy. So why is he being prioritized over seeing CMM (who had a good rookie year) play a full year in the top 9? Or to see what Protas can do at 3C? I think that's the problem a lot of people have, including me.
 

McVechkin

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First period was good, with a Carlson flub leading to a goal against while some posts and VV stopped them at the other end. Next two periods were lackluster at best, while numerous Eller, Carlson, and Gustafsson brain farts combined with Lindgren giving up a softy from an extreme angle and the Capitals making life easy on VV.
What goal is this Carlson flub on??
 

Hivemind

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What goal is this Carlson flub on??
Carlson doesn't box out either Devil on the 1st goal against.
Carlson is caught flat footed gets beat after Eller's egregious turnover on the 2nd goal against.
Carlson is pinned in his own zone for a long time prior to the 3rd goal against
Carlson gets beat cleanly by Hughes on the rush back after Gus' egregious turnover on the 4th goal against.

I know Eller was the worst Capital, but it was an ugly night for Carlson as well.
 

McVechkin

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Carlson doesn't box out either Devil on the 1st goal against.
Carlson is caught flat footed gets beat after Eller's egregious turnover on the 2nd goal against.
Carlson is pinned in his own zone for a long time prior to the 3rd goal against
Carlson gets beat cleanly by Hughes on the rush back after Gus' egregious turnover on the 4th goal against.

I know Eller was the worst Capital, but it was an ugly night for Carlson as well.
I’ll give you the first one. Would have liked to see him be stronger in there... I’m not about to fault him for goals immediately after egregious turnovers tho. How on earth would you expect anyone to catch Hughes on the 4th goal?? He was on the other side of the ice…?!??? That’s just blindly hating.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
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I’ll give you the first one. Would have liked to see him be stronger in there... I’m not about to fault him for goals immediately after egregious turnovers tho. How on earth would you expect anyone to catch Hughes on the 4th goal?? He was on the other side of the ice…?!??? That’s just blindly hating.
At the time of the time of Gus' turnover, both Carlson and Hughes are even, about 1.5 strides behind the NJ blueline.
IxvZs7j.png


By the time they get to the other side of the neutral zone, Carlson has stopped skating. Conor Sheary, who was a full stride behind him and Hughes at the start of the play, has out skated Carlson. Carly wasn't even going to fully take away Hughes, but if he skates hard he can help contest the passing lane. He doesn't, and it's a wide open pass.

C9CWSoV.png
 

McVechkin

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At the time of the time of Gus' turnover, both Carlson and Hughes are even, about 1.5 strides behind the NJ blueline.
IxvZs7j.png


By the time they get to the other side of the neutral zone, Carlson has stopped skating. Conor Sheary, who was a full stride behind him and Hughes at the start of the play, has out skated Carlson. Carly wasn't even going to fully take away Hughes, but if he skates hard he can help contest the passing lane. He doesn't, and it's a wide open pass.

C9CWSoV.png
Hughes was on the other side of the rink… Carlson would need to travel significantly further than Hughes to get in that lane.. it is geometry here. In no system in hockey is it carlsons responsibility to track him on that backcheck. Hughes also had momentum going that way in your first screen grab and Carlson did not. Maybe the mcdavids of the world can do that…. Maybe.. but I doubt it. Carlson realizes he’s not getting there, he needs his head on a swivel to pick up any trailing devils… hence he stops skating. Nothing to see here.
 

IafrateOvie34

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My issue with Eller is we're holding on to him too long. He fulfilled his purpose to give us center depth and he has two of the biggest goals in Cap's history. There is no shame in trading him now. One of GMGM's biggest trades along with Oshie.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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I think a lot of people were calling for Eller to be traded in the offseason. Hardly hindsight.

The fact is Washington needs impact top 6 players and we know for a fact Eller isn't that guy. So why is he being prioritized over seeing CMM (who had a good rookie year) play a full year in the top 9? Or to see what Protas can do at 3C? I think that's the problem a lot of people have, including me.
I was one of those people….but CMM not being a better option doesn‘t mean they’re prioritizing Eller, it means they are in a holding pattern until CMM can get his shit together in Hershey…..1G, 1 PT in 4 games……well he needs to step up. No gifts.
 

HTFN

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I was one of those people….but CMM not being a better option doesn‘t mean they’re prioritizing Eller, it means they are in a holding pattern until CMM can get his shit together in Hershey…..1G, 1 PT in 4 games……well he needs to step up. No gifts.
So I guess the question that needs asking is "how valuable is 'learning with the pros in practice' really if they've just made his game worse than it was naturally in 2020-21?"

Maybe this development strategy isn't completely faultless, eh?
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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So I guess the question that needs asking is "how valuable is 'learning with the pros in practice' really if they've just made his game worse than it was naturally in 2020-21?"

Maybe this development strategy isn't completely faultless, eh?
any strategy can be questioned. Maybe the player is what he is so far?

Did they make his game worse, or did he regress (or has he just not advanced)? Sophomore slump used to be a thing.

Whatever it is, I’m anxiously awaiting him to start producing in Hershey. I’d like to see him back on track. Right now, Jimi might be closer…
 
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HTFN

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any strategy can be questioned. Maybe the player is what he is so far?

Did they make his game worse, or did he regress (or has he just not advanced)? Sophomore slump used to be a thing.

Whatever it is, I’m anxiously awaiting him to start producing in Hershey. I’d like to see him back on track. Right now, Jimi might be closer…
That’s not how works lmfao. Sophomore slumps are usually a player who was once sheltered fully experiencing the rigors of 82 games and falling off a bit, not being underdeveloped and going to the AHL to do less than he did before being touched by “NHL coaching”. f*** out of here with that.

If he “is what he is” how is he worse than he used to be? Who was it that posted the quote from the prospect recently that said they had to remember what they used to be in the AHL because their NHL coaching had broken them of what made them successful?
 
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