Was there any debate about Mario Lemieux winning the Hart Trophy over Doug Gilmour in 1993?

[LeafsNation75]

In 1993 when Mario Lemieux won the Hart Trophy was there any debate that as to why he won it instead of Doug Gilmour who was 2nd in voting for it that year.

At that time I was 8 years old which is why I'm asking this.

From looking up their stats I know that Lemieux had finished 3rd in goals with 69 and 1st in points with 160, after only playing 60 games due to his treatment for Hodgkin lymphoma, where as Gilmour finished 8th in points with 127 and 58th in goals with 32, however he played all 83 games in the regular season.

Besides his goals and points why did Toronto making the playoffs not play a big enough role in the minds of the voters, since they had missed them in 1991 and 1992 and were they even expected to be a playoff team going into the 1993 season?

Also did Lemieux's cancer diagnosis have an impact on the voters or would he have won it anyway if that never happened, because even with the games he missed he still put up some amazing stats.

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[Normand Lacombe]

There wasn't any debate. Lemieux had 49 of 50 first place votes (Pat LaFontaine received the other first place vote). Mario would have scored over 80 goals and 200 points had he not missed those games. When Lemieux was diagnosed with Hodgkin's, he was already leading the NHL in scoring by 21 points.

It wasn't as though Toronto's success was ignored. Gilmour was recognized with the Selke, winning by sizable advantage over Dave Poulin. Pat Burns won the Jack Adams by a large margin as well.

 

[seventieslord]

Certainly being 2nd in Hart voting when you're just 8th in points must mean that the voters considered other circumstances (defensive play, one man show, elevated team...) That was enough to overcome the higher scoring totals of six other players, not to mention the excellent seasons by a handful of defensemen and goalies, but there's no legitimate reason to expect it to overcome that kind of season by Lemieux. He was at the height of his powers. There was no debate, nor should there have been.

 

[LeafsNation75]

There wasn't any debate. Lemieux had 49 of 50 first place votes (Pat LaFontaine received the other first place vote). Mario would have scored over 80 goals and 200 points had he not missed those games. When Lemieux was diagnosed with Hodgkin's, he was already leading the NHL in scoring by 21 points.

It wasn't as though Toronto's success was ignored. Gilmour was recognized with the Selke, winning by sizable advantage over Dave Poulin. Pat Burns won the Jack Adams by a large margin as well.

I'm not complaining that Gilmour didn't win the Hart Trophy and I also know he won the Selke and Burns won the Jack Adams. I was just curious about the reasons why Lemieux won it and nothing more.

 

[Big Phil]

I'm not complaining that Gilmour didn't win the Hart Trophy and I also know he won the Selke and Burns won the Jack Adams. I was just curious about the reasons why Lemieux won it and nothing more.

Lots of things. For starters, the big numbers. 160 points in a full season is spectacular to the point where only two players have ever done it. Let alone in 60 games. 2nd, the Penguins had 119 points that year, by far the most in the NHL and they were two-time reigning Cup champs so they already had a target on them. They also won a still-record 17 games in a row after Lemieux came back. If Mario never comes back in 1993 he ends up with 104 points in 40 games. I doubt he gets much love for the Hart as he didn't in 1990 when he missed 21 games. So you can chalk up a win for Gilmour there.

But he did come back and got a whopping 56 points in 20 games. This was a great story, from the best player in the NHL, coming back to win the scoring race convincingly on the best team in the NHL. I am not sure there is another season in NHL history that overtakes this one. Perhaps if you put him up against Gretzky's seasons in 1982, 1984 or 1986 (I am thinking about the points streak in 1984) then these are the only ones that might overtake Lemieux head to head in a Hart match up from 1993. Maybe Orr in 1970. But honestly, that's it from NHL history. Lemieux in 1993 was that good and that convincing of a Hart winner.

 

[bobholly39]

Here's a hot take for you.

Line up every player's best season. Have them all happen head to head in the same year. Orr, Gretzky, etc. I think Lemieux in 93 has as good a chance as any of them to win the heart. His level of play is as good as anyone ever - but the story of his return just makes it that much more memorable.

Gilmour had a fantastic year. I probably prefer Gilmour 93 to Fedorov 94, which gets talked of endlessly. He's a worthy hart runner up - but he had no business actually winning above Mario.

 

[bobholly39]

Lots of things. For starters, the big numbers. 160 points in a full season is spectacular to the point where only two players have ever done it. Let alone in 60 games. 2nd, the Penguins had 119 points that year, by far the most in the NHL and they were two-time reigning Cup champs so they already had a target on them. They also won a still-record 17 games in a row after Lemieux came back. If Mario never comes back in 1993 he ends up with 104 points in 40 games. I doubt he gets much love for the Hart as he didn't in 1990 when he missed 21 games. So you can chalk up a win for Gilmour there.

But he did come back and got a whopping 56 points in 20 games. This was a great story, from the best player in the NHL, coming back to win the scoring race convincingly on the best team in the NHL. I am not sure there is another season in NHL history that overtakes this one. Perhaps if you put him up against Gretzky's seasons in 1982, 1984 or 1986 (I am thinking about the points streak in 1984) then these are the only ones that might overtake Lemieux head to head in a Hart match up from 1993. Maybe Orr in 1970. But honestly, that's it from NHL history. Lemieux in 1993 was that good and that convincing of a Hart winner.

Hadn't even noticed your 2nd paragraph before making my post lol. We're pretty much saying the same thing though.

Lemieux in 93 might win the hart above any season in NHL history. Level of play is up there - but the fantastic story helps too.

 

[Jets4Life]

Mario, and it was not even close

 

[Leafsfan74]

In 1993 when Mario Lemieux won the Hart Trophy was there any debate that as to why he won it instead of Doug Gilmour who was 2nd in voting for it that year.

At that time I was 8 years old which is why I'm asking this.

From looking up their stats I know that Lemieux had finished 3rd in goals with 69 and 1st in points with 160, after only playing 60 games due to his treatment for Hodgkin lymphoma, where as Gilmour finished 8th in points with 127 and 58th in goals with 32, however he played all 83 games in the regular season.

Besides his goals and points why did Toronto making the playoffs not play a big enough role in the minds of the voters, since they had missed them in 1991 and 1992 and were they even expected to be a playoff team going into the 1993 season?

Also did Lemieux's cancer diagnosis have an impact on the voters or would he have won it anyway if that never happened, because even with the games he missed he still put up some amazing stats.

It wasn't so much debate as it was unfortunate for Leaf fans who watched Gilmour put his team on his back. He deserved this as much as Lemieux as far as I am concerned. Leafs had only one line that could do anything. However, Mario was just too good to ignore.

I do think, had Mario simply had been out with a sprained ankle for so many games and not cancer, the voting would have at least been closer. One could argue that the Pens needed him less, with Bowman behind the bench and their team full of talent. He was, however, the key to their team, even with players like Jagr in the lineup. Cancer just added to the legend and confirmation of his dominance that season.

He was on pace to challenge Gretzkys single season record, nobody but Mario can ever say that (maybe Hull for goals). If I am correct, when he was out dealing with cancer treatment, the team went 11-10 with 2 ties ( I didn't search for the other 1 game he missed). Their season ended with a 56-21 with 7 ties. Illustrating how vital he was to their success. Half their losses for the entire season come with him not in the line up for that period.

60 games played, only 6 he was left off of the scoresheet. Eight times he had 5 or more points in a game. All of this, while constantly dealing with back issues and then coming back from cancer. In a healthy, full season, we probably have at least one of of Waynes single regular season records broken.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lemieux had arguably the best season of all time. So no debate. I wasn’t alive im 26 but there couldn’t have been

 

[VanIslander]

Sticking stricting to the criterion of most VALUABLE player in the regular season:

Pittsburgh went from 3rd in their division the season before to the best record in the NHL. The league's top scorer was Mario. A+B=C where C= Hart Memorial Trophy.

This ain't rocket science.

Note: The year before the difference between Mario and the next best Pen was 8 points. In 1993 it was a staggering 49 points!

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Lots of things. For starters, the big numbers. 160 points in a full season is spectacular to the point where only two players have ever done it. Let alone in 60 games. 2nd, the Penguins had 119 points that year, by far the most in the NHL and they were two-time reigning Cup champs so they already had a target on them. They also won a still-record 17 games in a row after Lemieux came back. If Mario never comes back in 1993 he ends up with 104 points in 40 games. I doubt he gets much love for the Hart as he didn't in 1990 when he missed 21 games. So you can chalk up a win for Gilmour there.

But he did come back and got a whopping 56 points in 20 games. This was a great story, from the best player in the NHL, coming back to win the scoring race convincingly on the best team in the NHL. I am not sure there is another season in NHL history that overtakes this one. Perhaps if you put him up against Gretzky's seasons in 1982, 1984 or 1986 (I am thinking about the points streak in 1984) then these are the only ones that might overtake Lemieux head to head in a Hart match up from 1993. Maybe Orr in 1970. But honestly, that's it from NHL history. Lemieux in 1993 was that good and that convincing of a Hart winner.

This. He wasnt even close to not winning. GOAT.

 

[VanIslander]

GOAT.

LOL.

If Gretzky, Howe & Orr hadn't played.

 

[BenchBrawl]

This is the last time I saw anyone play at this level. His 1996 season was far from comparable when you watched him play. In 1996 Lemieux had already declined and Jagr was arguably a more dynamic player, though Lemieux was still athletic enough to almost fully capitalize on his IQ and thus he scored 161 pts anyway. But he was not at the 1993 level at all anymore.

The run when he came back from cancer was ridiculous. He was toying with defenders and scoring at will. His dominance went beyond numbers; the eye-test was spectacular.

Seeing someone play at this level leaves a mark on your subconscious. Gilmour, great as he was, had zero chance to win the Hart. Nobody did.

 

[seventieslord]

This is the last time I saw anyone play at this level. His 1996 season was far from comparable when you watched him play. In 1996 Lemieux had already declined and Jagr was arguably a more dynamic player, though Lemieux was still athletic enough to almost fully capitalize on his IQ and thus he scored 161 pts anyway. But he was not at the 1993 level at all anymore.

The run when he came back from cancer was ridiculous. He was toying with defenders and scoring at will. His dominance went beyond numbers; the eye-test was spectacular.

Seeing someone play at this level leaves a mark on your subconscious. Gilmour, great as he was, had zero chance to win the Hart. Nobody did.

Absolutely. 1993 was his last full season spent as an ice-tilting force. He was never at that even strength beast level again, though he managed to prep up his status with heavy PP scoring for many years after.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Absolutely. 1993 was his last full season spent as an ice-tilting force. He was never at that even strength beast level again, though he managed to prep up his status with heavy PP scoring for many years after.

I’d say 161 in 70 is Ice tilting, now 93 was Mario at his best yes.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It wasn't so much debate as it was unfortunate for Leaf fans who watched Gilmour put his team on his back. He deserved this as much as Lemieux as far as I am concerned. Leafs had only one line that could do anything. However, Mario was just too good to ignore.

I do think, had Mario simply had been out with a sprained ankle for so many games and not cancer, the voting would have at least been closer. One could argue that the Pens needed him less, with Bowman behind the bench and their team full of talent. He was, however, the key to their team, even with players like Jagr in the lineup. Cancer just added to the legend and confirmation of his dominance that season.

He was on pace to challenge Gretzkys single season record, nobody but Mario can ever say that (maybe Hull for goals). If I am correct, when he was out dealing with cancer treatment, the team went 11-10 with 2 ties ( I didn't search for the other 1 game he missed). Their season ended with a 56-21 with 7 ties. Illustrating how vital he was to their success. Half their losses for the entire season come with him not in the line up for that period.

60 games played, only 6 he was left off of the scoresheet. Eight times he had 5 or more points in a game. All of this, while constantly dealing with back issues and then coming back from cancer. In a healthy, full season, we probably have at least one of of Waynes single regular season records broken.

I know that in the overall standings Pittsburgh finished 20 points ahead of Toronto, however I'm still wondering was Toronto even considered to be a playoff team going into that season? Like I said before from looking online I know they had previously missed the playoffs in 1991 and 1992 and if you want to forget about Lemieux's accomplishments for a moment, by defention of the wording for the Hart Trophy wasn't Gilmour also deserving of it based on his regular season and team success.

 

[seventieslord]

I’d say 161 in 70 is Ice tilting, now 93 was Mario at his best yes.

just curious, do you remember that season very well? He only had 73 even-strength points and was only a plus 10 on an excellent team. 96-97 was a definite step back but 95-96 was the beginning of that.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

just curious, do you remember that season very well? He only had 73 even-strength points and was only a plus 10 on an excellent team. 96-97 was a definite step back but 95-96 was the beginning of that.

73 even strength points in 70 games. Remember that’s the key. In 82 games that’s roughly 85-90 ev points. On pace for 189 points.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

He also had a league leading 8 short handed goals. So at least 81 non power play points in 70 games

 

[BenchBrawl]

Absolutely. 1993 was his last full season spent as an ice-tilting force. He was never at that even strength beast level again, though he managed to prep up his status with heavy PP scoring for many years after.

Yep. It was like the transition year when he went from an athletic powerhouse to a chess player. He was in-between in 1996.

 

[seventieslord]

He also had a league leading 8 short handed goals. So at least 81 non power play points in 70 games

And still just plus 10 on a team that was plus 80. You call that Ice tilting? Look, I'm not saying he sucked at even-strength, but he was clearly not what he once was. You could see it and the numbers show it too.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

And still just plus 10 on a team that was plus 80. You call that Ice tilting? Look, I'm not saying he sucked at even-strength, but he was clearly not what he once was. You could see it and the numbers show it too.

Well he was 30 at this time and went through numerous back operations etc. There still has not been any player remotely close to that level since. And only one forward before ever at that level.

 

[Lukin1978]

Why does every thread have to use the term ice tilting? Just seems very lazy to use the same term over and over and over.

 

[scott clam]

Voters opted to give Gilmour the Selke, as a consolation prize of sorts, because the Hart just couldn't go to anyone else but Lemieux that year.

This was the year that set the current precedent for the Selke, since before Gilmour the award was reserved for shutdown specialists like Guy Carbonneau and Dirk Graham.

The new precedent would be reflected the very next year with the Selke actually going to the guy who was named MVP.