Vincent Damphouse to blame

[RLC]

I just heard that on TSN
I seems that as the meeting was beginning and the NHL wanted to go straight to the number ( what was expected 45 mill ) it was Damphouse that stood up and refused and wanted to first clear up all other issuse and that's when the long downwards spiral started at the meeting.

If the 45mill number was perhaps accepted first, then the meeting might have turned out entirely differently.

Damphouse wanted to play hard ball first and that through a bucket of cold water on the entire meeting.

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[GKJ]

I just heard that on TSN
I seems that as the meeting was beginning and the NHL wanted to go straight to the number ( what was expected 45 mill ) it was Damphouse that stood up and refused and wanted to first clear up all other issuse and that's when the long downwards spiral started at the meeting.

If the 45mill number was perhaps accepted first, then the meeting might have turned out entirely differently.

Damphouse wanted to play hard ball first and that through a bucket of cold water on the entire meeting.

If Damphousse is the only one who wanted to do this, I wouldn't count on him being in the executive committee much longer.

Unless this was his idea as a one-time idea.


I would still like to see this on paper though.

 

[spokedB44]

Leadership on both sides of the table really need to be replaced. Players like Damphouse, Linden, and Guerin are so entreched in their positions that they are putting next season in jeopordy.

Gary Bettman is keeping the union together in my opinion. The players hatred and misturst of him is dragging the game through the mud.

The NHLers in leadership positions are going to have no revenues earn anything if they keep it up.

 

[Hire Sather]

This is good news, if its true. Get him out of the way and maybe something will get done.

All the hard-heads need to be removed to get something done. If that means Daly and Saskin one on one so be it.

 

[CalgaryThrasher]

Anyone think that there shouldn't be any NHL players involved in direct negotiations??? Bill Guerin, and Daniel "We will never accept a salary Cap of any kind, No chance" Alfredsson for example.

They are idiots..

 

[Lobstertainment]

This is good news, if its true. Get him out of the way and maybe something will get done.

All the hard-heads need to be removed to get something done. If that means Daly and Saskin one on one so be it.

Everyone keeps saying Daly and Saskin could have probably had a deal done, I dunno, I personally find Saskin to be just s if not more of a twit then Goodenow.

Daly probably would be in the same spot as Bettman too.

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

I just heard that on TSN
I seems that as the meeting was beginning and the NHL wanted to go straight to the number ( what was expected 45 mill ) it was Damphouse that stood up and refused and wanted to first clear up all other issuse and that's when the long downwards spiral started at the meeting.

If the 45mill number was perhaps accepted first, then the meeting might have turned out entirely differently.

Damphouse wanted to play hard ball first and that through a bucket of cold water on the entire meeting.

Hardball...Damphousse ?? I find that hard to believe for a guy who has ***** footed on the ice his whole career. Not one of those players should even be sitting in the room because their accumulative IQ is probably around 60. Secondly lawyers are F'n this whole CBA up anyhow. Get the lawyers the hell out and get 2 businessmen in there and lets talk about a solution instead of this childish BS rhetoric.

 

[chiavsfan]

I tend to agree...everyone is calling on Daly and Saskin one on one...haven't these two been in meetings together without Bob and Gary several times? These two were the kings of "no progress."

 

[hubofhockey]

Gee, when the deal is right there to be closed, I don't know about you, but I certainly would want a professional negotiator governing my interest.
To wit: as the owners, if I were paying Bettman $3 million a year, I'd want him at the table. As the players, paying the same, I'd want Goodenow.
But what happened? The day most critical to the future of hockey turned into Amateur Hour. Absolutely frightening.
Either Goodenow and Bettman have to change their ways--and perform the duties they were hired to do--or their employers have to remove them.
This is NOT that complicated. It's defining work conditions and pay, in a biz that is NOT as challenged as the U.S. airline biz, or any some other falling-like-a-rock industry.
If I had a tootache, I'd want to see a dentist.
If my car broke down, well, lemme think....hey, a car mechanic?
No offense, but Vincent D?
If that's true--and I highly doubt it, but who knows--then it smacks of Goodenow imposing his will on the moderates who looked like they were about to get it done. Just as the Just Say No Players' Association, for the months leading up to mid-Feb., beat down the voices along the way--the likes of Steve Thomas and John Madden--who early on had the sense and courage to say that a cap might not be such a bad thing.
Gotta go now. My roof is leaking. Must be a mason or a landscaper in the neighborhood who can fix it, you think?

kpd/hoh
If

 

[GKJ]

Gee, when the deal is right there to be closed, I don't know about you, but I certainly would want a professional negotiator governing my interest.
To wit: as the owners, if I were paying Bettman $3 million a year, I'd want him at the table. As the players, paying the same, I'd want Goodenow.
But what happened? The day most critical to the future of hockey turned into Amateur Hour. Absolutely frightening.
Either Goodenow and Bettman have to change their ways--and perform the duties they were hired to do--or their employers have to remove them.
This is NOT that complicated. It's defining work conditions and pay, in a biz that is NOT as challenged as the U.S. airline biz, or any some other falling-like-a-rock industry.
If I had a tootache, I'd want to see a dentist.
If my car broke down, well, lemme think....hey, a car mechanic?
No offense, but Vincent D?
If that's true--and I highly doubt it, but who knows--then it smacks of Goodenow imposing his will on the moderates who looked like they were about to get it done. Just as the Just Say No Players' Association, for the months leading up to mid-Feb., beat down the voices along the way--the likes of Steve Thomas and John Madden--who early on had the sense and courage to say that a cap might not be such a bad thing.
Gotta go now. My roof is leaking. Must be a mason or a landscaper in the neighborhood who can fix it, you think?

kpd/hoh
If

Unfortunetaly, this is not practical.


God forbid someone shows a sign of weakness.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Does Damphousse, with all this power to put an end to negotiations, even have a high school diploma?

 

[MrMackey]

Does Damphousse, with all this power to put an end to negotiations, even have a high school diploma?

Reporters should start asking these questions of everyone... including Bettman, Goodenow, all the players involved, etc:

1. Have you ever operated a hockey team?
2. Have you ever operated a business?
3. Have you ever taken an economics course? Accounting? Management?
4. What's your highest level of education?
5. What specifically qualifies you to negotiate on behalf of your side (both education and experience)?
6. Can you clearly explain the differences between running a business and running a hockey team?

 

[MissTeeks]

Gary Bettman is keeping the union together in my opinion. The players hatred and misturst of him is dragging the game through the mud.

I totally agree with that, I think if the owners got rid of Bettman or if he were to resign, the players would be more likely to split. Their group hatred for Bettman is what keeps them from totally cracking. But that's just my opinion.

 

[BBB]

I have to admit that I was surprised to see both Damphouse and Guerin involved in what was supposed to be the final negotiation to get this completed. I think that they are the two most hardline of the PA exec and we hadn't seen too much of them in the previous week.
My feeling is that they were brought in as a PA show of strength given that the previous two days were filled with articles/rumours of major splits in the union.

 

[MontrealSF]

Does Damphousse, with all this power to put an end to negotiations, even have a high school diploma?

Yes he does. He even went to a private high school.

 

[joepeps]

Bettman played Gretzky.... end of story.....

Bettman wants to ashow he's in charge and he does't care who 99 is....

 

[Lorenzo1000]

Bettman played Gretzky.... end of story.....

Bettman wants to ashow he's in charge and he does't care who 99 is....

No not true read the TSN article that quotes Greztky's comments in the NY Post.

TSN

 

[LePoche69]

Yes he does. He even went to a private high school.

...one of the best in the Province of Québec.

Well, I'm pro owner in the whole thing, but am I alone thinking that what Damphousse did is the right thing to do for a union representative?

I mean, let's say the cap number is good for both parties. Now hey! Let's not going too fast and got burn on other issues that, put together, could be very bad for the players. I think it's just normal nego stuff. All of what happen and happened is simple nego stuff to me! I think too many people got blinded by all that cancellation stuff. I mean hey! Bettman and Goodenow talked about cancellation of this season two years ago!!!! There is no surprise to me! It's all nego. And you no what? It's not particulerly ugly if you compare to other nego! Just normal stuff. It's my 2 cents, tho, don't have to agree!

 

[Larionov]

The fact that they hadn't even been able to come an agreement on the non-cap stuff before now shows you how truly hopeless Saturday's meeting was. All of those complex, involved issues, and they didn't have a shred of common ground on them before then? And you expected all of those problems to go away in one day? I'm an unapologetic pro-ownership guy, but it's pretty simplistic to blame Damphousse for all of this. The simple fact is that the two sides were, Bettman said, a lot further apart than anyone wanted to believe, and that the issues were far more involved than just the cap number.

The other hard fact is that there is not going to be a negotiated settlement here -- the 'PA has decided that they are determined to do this the hard way, so the hard way it will be. It's going to be ugly, but the good news for fans is that we will have a better League coming out the other side of the abyss. The NHL badly needed a fresh start, and this market correction, painful as it is, provides that opportunity.

 

[Meanashell11]

Yup, fresh start is what is needed and the PA did not believe the situation was so dire. They also felt that fans, screaming for their fix, no matter how temporary it may be, would force the leagues hand. Man did they ever misread the situation. I am more than prepared for scorched earth if it means the league "works" when this is done. And if it costs 200 player jobs, so be it. They made their bed.

 

[Meanashell11]

and another thing, I am involved in negotiations all the time involving 100's of millions of dollars. I always start with the easy stuff to agree on as it builds momentun. Worst case, when talks break off at least you can say some progress was made. These guys just seem to not know how agreements are reached, they were playing chicken, not negotiating, using a deadline to get the other guy to bail. Except in this case they both went off the cliff.

 

[Munchausen]

Yes he does. He even went to a private high school.

Thank god. I worried there for a sec. that he didn't know what he was doing.

 

[Munchausen]

and another thing, I am involved in negotiations all the time involving 100's of millions of dollars. I always start with the easy stuff to agree on as it builds momentun. Worst case, when talks break off at least you can say some progress was made. These guys just seem to not know how agreements are reached, they were playing chicken, not negotiating, using a deadline to get the other guy to bail. Except in this case they both went off the cliff.

Sorry but the easy stuff was saying 45M. That would have put a positive spin on the whole meeting and urgency to cross the t's and dot the i's. At worst they disagree on the number and call it a day. Now we'll just never know if there was a deal to be made, since they started nit-picking on everything else first.

 

[Larionov]

These guys just seem to not know how agreements are reached, they were playing chicken, not negotiating, using a deadline to get the other guy to bail. Except in this case they both went off the cliff.

I like your cliff analogy. I have said all along that the 'PA is pulling a Thelma and Louise here, for reasons best known to themselves. Remember the end of that movie? Those two dopey chicks hold hands and drive off the edge of the cliff, revelling in their moment of freedom. Seconds later, of course, they were ground beef at the bottom of the canyon but hey, they sure showed "the man", didn't they?

What is lost in all of this is the fact that, as time rolls on here, all of the 'PA's membership gets one year older. Trevor Linden will soon be 35 -- Dominek Hasek just turned 40 -- the list goes on and on. Losing this season, and inciting the NHL to bring on replacements, is likely going to cost the 'PA at least a third of their current membership. This is, of course, combined with the hundreds of millions in lost salary that they will never recoup. Hope that was worth it, guys -- hey, at least you can say you did it for Ted Lindsay, right?

 

[me2]

...one of the best in the Province of Québec.

Well, I'm pro owner in the whole thing, but am I alone thinking that what Damphousse did is the right thing to do for a union representative?

I mean, let's say the cap number is good for both parties. Now hey! Let's not going too fast and got burn on other issues that, put together, could be very bad for the players. I think it's just normal nego stuff. All of what happen and happened is simple nego stuff to me! I think too many people got blinded by all that cancellation stuff. I mean hey! Bettman and Goodenow talked about cancellation of this season two years ago!!!! There is no surprise to me! It's all nego. And you no what? It's not particulerly ugly if you compare to other nego! Just normal stuff. It's my 2 cents, tho, don't have to agree!

The union and league are much more likely to fight over the extra clauses if the cap is undecided. Lets face it, if the NHL and the NHLPA reach a deal on the cap going up over 6 years (ie $42.5m, 42.5m, 43m, 43.5m, 44m, 45m), are either side going to want to walk away over the little stuff? Crack the cap, and the rest flows from there.


Damphousse was out to kill the negotiations from the start IMHO. He was turning molehills into mountains to stop the negotiations ever getting to the cap.