Confirmed with Link: [VGK/CAR] Erik Haula for Nicolas Roy + Conditional 5th Round Pick

[GIN ANTONIC]

It didn’t. Someone read one post and thought people were trying to trade Staal and just went off on their personal agenda’s. No one wants to trade Staal. This whole mess started with a conversation about how to keep Haula. About whether or not we would pay Haula six million when we’re paying Staal the same. That’s it. Multiple people come in late saying “you guys are idiots, we’re not trading Staal - we just made him captain!”

No **** Sherlock.

Right so if you go through the last 2 pages you won’t posts about trading Staal in the off-season to make space for Haula or other potential moves or someone saying ‘only a god-damned fool doesn’t look into trading Staals contract if you can’?

Again I know it’s hypothetical but for saying ‘No one wants to trade Staal’ there sure are a lot of posts that sound like ‘but what if we could trade Staal’...

We can re-sign Haula without moving staals contract.

I also never called anyone silly or an idiot. I said ‘this’ is silly but that’s fine.

 

[Lempo]

not me

for once

Those guys changed back.

 

[MinJaBen]

Is this real life? Or is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality

Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see.

Relevant.

 

[CandyCanes]

Relevant.

MinJerkBen, that might of been the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. I'm a bit saddened I didn't get to participate in memeing Bohemian Rhapsody with you.

 

[RodTheBawd]

What have you done @Boom Boom Apathy

 

[WreckingCrew]

Relevant.

We're not worthy... *wipes away tear*

 

[geehaad]

Moving on...

We can re-sign Haula without moving staals contract.

In 2020-2021, I think we could handle it, but in 2021-2022, having spent $20M for 3 centers betrays us as we re-sign Svech. Between his contract and Haula's, they will suck up all of the cap space regained from Marleau and Semin's expired buyouts, and we'll find ourselves replacing many top-6/top-4 chess pieces (Dougie, Nino, and Dzingel). I also think it means Nino would *have* to be traded.

Think about the wonderfully amazing things GMBC has been able to do this offseason because they've had the room to maneuver under the cap. That space gives them the flexibility to pounce on good deals when they present themselves. Affording both Haula and Staal is the antithesis of that.

Just because you *can* do something doesn't equate to it being *wise* to do it.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Moving on...


In 2020-2021, I think we could handle it, but in 2021-2022, having spent $20M for 3 centers betrays us as we re-sign Svech. Between his contract and Haula's, they will suck up all of the cap space regained from Marleau and Semin's expired buyouts, and we'll find ourselves replacing many top-6/top-4 chess pieces (Dougie, Nino, and Dzingel).

Think about the wonderfully amazing things GMBC has been able to do this offseason because they've had the room to maneuver under the cap. That space gives them the flexibility to pounce on good deals when they present themselves. Affording both Haula and Staal is the antithesis of that.

Just because you *can* do something doesn't equate to it being *wise* to do it.

Sure and I 100% get what you and others are saying about cap flexibility. It's a great thing, it's just that there's sooo many uncertainties after the 2021 season... like who's our goalie? We have $6.5 tied up in Mrazek and Reimer. If Ned or someone else takes over the starting job after that or even if we re-sign Mrazek to a longer terms deal in the $4 mil AAV range then there's cap savings there.

Edmundson I would have to think is gone after this year. That's $3.1 off the books. If he's replaced with Bean or Priskie or whoever then that saves a ton. Same with TVR's contract expiring.

You also have McGinn and Martinook coming off the books and that's another 4+ million. If they are replaced internally with ELCs then more room to negotiate.

If the borg thinks it makes sense to try to move out Staal's contract in the future they will look into it but I think there will be enough salary coming off the books in other areas to give us flexibility.

I personally don't see Haula as a $6 million player, I would put him closer to $5 mil and I don't think the borg will be eager to overpay. Like they've done with everyone, they will make an offer that they think is fair and it will be a take it or leave it. I'd love to have Haula + Staal as our 2C and 3C for the next few years but maybe Necas or someone else will present themselves as an option as well. I guess I'm just not too worried about it right now or even in a year.

 

[Lempo]

The Expansion Draft in summer 2021 will cost a player. He can be an expensive experienced player not in Canes' long-term plans.

 

[Unsustainable]

We’ve got room to extend Haula, and room to extend Svechnikov, and then to extend Dougie.

Wallmarks next contract is the scratcher

 

[bleedgreen]

We’ve got room to extend Haula, and room to extend Svechnikov, and then to extend Dougie.

Wallmarks next contract is the scratcher

Bishop is ready to replace him, I like Wallmark but fourth line center is definitely a position you promote from within with.

 

[Unsustainable]

Bishop is ready to replace him, I like Wallmark but fourth line center is definitely a position you promote from within with.

that’s where I’m at, or one of the other kids can replace him later. Though Wallmark is good.

Foegele and Wallmark are the ones I can see being moved out for call ups.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Sure and I 100% get what you and others are saying about cap flexibility. It's a great thing, it's just that there's sooo many uncertainties after the 2021 season... like who's our goalie? We have $6.5 tied up in Mrazek and Reimer. If Ned or someone else takes over the starting job after that or even if we re-sign Mrazek to a longer terms deal in the $4 mil AAV range then there's cap savings there.

Edmundson I would have to think is gone after this year. That's $3.1 off the books. If he's replaced with Bean or Priskie or whoever then that saves a ton. Same with TVR's contract expiring.

You also have McGinn and Martinook coming off the books and that's another 4+ million. If they are replaced internally with ELCs then more room to negotiate.

If the borg thinks it makes sense to try to move out Staal's contract in the future they will look into it but I think there will be enough salary coming off the books in other areas to give us flexibility.

I personally don't see Haula as a $6 million player, I would put him closer to $5 mil and I don't think the borg will be eager to overpay. Like they've done with everyone, they will make an offer that they think is fair and it will be a take it or leave it. I'd love to have Haula + Staal as our 2C and 3C for the next few years but maybe Necas or someone else will present themselves as an option as well. I guess I'm just not too worried about it right now or even in a year.

I actually think that the Borg will keep one of Edmundson or TVR to a (very) short-term pact, perhaps a 1 year extension, mainly because both of them (and Fleury, for that matter) are clearly better right now than any of the Checkers D. Bean and Priskie are going to still be waivers-exempt next year and should be competing for the final spot on the roster, not just handed spots.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I actually think that the Borg will keep one of Edmundson or TVR to a (very) short-term pact, perhaps a 1 year extension, mainly because both of them (and Fleury, for that matter) are clearly better right now than any of the Checkers D. Bean and Priskie are going to still be waivers-exempt next year and should be competing for the final spot on the roster, not just handed spots.

Sure, that's definitely an option. TVR would make the most financial sense but when you're talking about allocating money, I don't mind going cheaper on bottom pairing D and using some of that to put towards keeping Aho, Staal, Haula up the middle. Either way, I just think there's more than enough money coming off the books to sign everyone to the raises that the borg feels comfortable giving out.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I thought that Wallmark wasn't going to be a mid-term piece earlier in the year, but the acquisition of Haula has changed my opinion a bit. Wallmark's core scoring stats most likely will take a hit with the cuts in ice time and linemate quality (no Svech). There's going to be a difference in market value between the 28 point player he was last year and the 15-20 point guy he'll be this year. Whereas paying a 3C price for a 4C may not be wise, a post-bridge 4C price for a 4C is doable with all of the efficient contracts on the books.

 

[geehaad]

I guess the overall point is that your salary structure should closely adhere to role composition. If your top-6 are paid top-6 salaries, then your bottom-6 must be paid bottom-6 salaries. If we can slot an ELC into the top-6, then we can *temporarily* overspend on a bottom-6 salary. However, a player like Haula entering UFA status typically isn't interested in a contract term that meets the "temporarily" condition.

Again: can we spend $20M on on the top 3 centers? Yes. Should we? Heavens no.

 

[Unsustainable]

20.5m in 3 centers is good value.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I guess the overall point is that your salary structure should closely adhere to role composition. If your top-6 are paid top-6 salaries, then your bottom-6 must be paid bottom-6 salaries. If we can slot an ELC into the top-6, then we can *temporarily* overspend on a bottom-6 salary. However, a player like Haula entering UFA status typically isn't interested in a contract term that meets the "temporarily" condition.

Again: can we spend $20M on on the top 3 centers? Yes. Should we? Heavens no.

I think with the savings we have on D, 20M for our top 3 centers isn't bad at all. Especially considering it's not like we have some $8-10mil wingers that are bloating things. TT is the highest paid winger at $5.4. When Svech comes up for RFA maybe he'll get something substantially higher than that but it depends on how he performs over the next two years. When I'm more bored at work, I'll post a salary structure for 2021-2022 and that will give a better sense of things. Also remember the cap is going up...

 

[bleedgreen]

I guess the overall point is that your salary structure should closely adhere to role composition. If your top-6 are paid top-6 salaries, then your bottom-6 must be paid bottom-6 salaries. If we can slot an ELC into the top-6, then we can *temporarily* overspend on a bottom-6 salary. However, a player like Haula entering UFA status typically isn't interested in a contract term that meets the "temporarily" condition.

Again: can we spend $20M on on the top 3 centers? Yes. Should we? Heavens no.

Agreed, but that may be how we stay a good team. Staal isn’t going anywhere and we’re already seeing the benefit of having another scorer that’s going to produce more consistently than he does. It’s pricey to have a second center above him but it makes us a better team.

If there’s one spot in the bottom six that you benefit from overspending on it’s that third C.

 

[Unsustainable]

If we could lock Haula in a 6x6, that would be ideal

 

[GoldiFox]

2021-2022 Canes

Nino ($5.25 million) - Aho ($8.45 million) - TT ($5.4 million)
Svechnikov (re-signs $8 million) - Staal ($6 million) - Necas ($950k)
Foegele ($850k) - Haula (re-signs $5.5 million) - Gauthier ($950k)
Loustarinen ($900k) - Suzuki ($925k) - Martinook ($1.75 million)

Slavin ($5.3 million) - Hamilton (re-signs $7.5 million)
Gardiner ($4 million) - Pesce ($4 million)
Fleury ($1.25 million) - Bean/Priskie ($950k)

Mrazek ($3.5 million)
Nedeljkovic ($950k)

$72.3 million total
$84.5 million salary cap (average increase of $2 million per year)
$12.2 million in cap space with a 20 man roster

Canes could save more space giving Svechnikov a 2-3 year Tkachuk/Boeser/Laine/Point deal for under $7 million. Still room to add a Taylor Hall or Nugent-Hopkins for (what will be at that point) the Canes window.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

If we could lock Haula in a 6x6, that would be ideal

Not sure I'm that down with giving a 29 year old Haula a 6x6 contract but this is probably his only year to really cash in so we'll see. However that's what people thought about Gardiner as well and we see how that worked out.

2021-2022 Canes

Nino ($5.25 million) - Aho ($8.45 million) - TT ($5.4 million)
Svechnikov (re-signs $8 million) - Staal ($6 million) - Necas ($950k)
Foegele ($850k) - Haula (re-signs $5.5 million) - Gauthier ($950k)
Loustarinen ($900k) - Suzuki ($925k) - Martinook ($1.75 million)

Slavin ($5.3 million) - Hamilton (re-signs $7.5 million)
Gardiner ($4 million) - Pesce ($4 million)
Fleury ($1.25 million) - Bean/Priskie ($950k)

Mrazek ($3.5 million)
Nedeljkovic ($950k)

$72.3 million total
$84.5 million salary cap (average increase of $2 million per year)
$12.2 million in cap space with a 20 man roster

Canes could save more space giving Svechnikov a 2-3 year Tkachuk/Boeser/Laine/Point deal for under $7 million. Still room to add a Taylor Hall or Nugent-Hopkins for (what will be at that point) the Canes window.

This seems pretty reasonable to me. Like I can see all of those salaries as realistic. Martinook you might have to keep at $2 mil though since he's already there and just got an A, but that's small potatoes.

I think the goalie situation is still a big question mark going forward. Obviously happy to keep riding Mrazek as long as he's performing but it sure would be nice to have a steady goalie locked in for a few years so we're not always piecing it together.

 

[geehaad]

Seems very Pollyanna to me.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Seems very Pollyanna to me.

How so?

 

[emptyNedder]

The Haula hype is reminding me of the Ferland frenzy. Through 4 games Ferland had 2 goals and 5 points.
Haula has been great on the PP. However, his one even-strength point was actually the end of a power play. So really no even-strength points. His big season featured James Neal on his wing and Perron putting up 50 assists. Neal looks like a 40-50 goal scorer on Edmonton.
If Haula can add a dozen ES goals and 25 ES assists while continuing on the power play, then maybe it makes sense to pay him like a 2C.
I just think the argument that he should be paid like a 2C (perhaps even moving Staal down) or that Wallmark should be expendable is quite premature.
I like Haula, just think I need 30 games or so to see what others are convinced they see.