Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[BKIslandersFan]

IF you're not hating on other teams then you're probably not much of a hockey fan, my dude.

I mean thats fair.

But hating a team is one thing. HAting a team for TRYING is another.

 

[WhataKnight]

IF you're not hating on other teams then you're probably not much of a hockey fan, my dude.

Yeah, but there’s casual ribs thrown, and then there’s some straight Buffalo 66 level, Finkle/Einhorn fixation.

I find that if there’s a team that I don’t like, it’s often because there’s something about them, which they do better than my team. Exception being the Colorado Avalanche; I can’t watch them because they’re broadcasts are terrible, but their team is damn good.

 

[TheBeard]

I mean thats fair.

But hating a team is one thing. HAting a team for TRYING is another.

My view is if you've been a hockey fan for a long time, 40, 30, 50 years whatever, and the game for the most part has always been respectful to the spirit of the league, and suddenly you're seeing some of the shit you've been seeing in the last ten years, not just the cap circumvention shit, but the sexual assault scandals and off-ice issues, you probably wouldn't be thrilled with the integrity. It always used to be the sport that separated itself from the other big 3 consistently marred in negative press and controversy. It's lost a lot of that, at least for me, and it's certainly transcended Vegas doing what they've done. It's clearly a money-centric league, I suppose it always has been, but there was at least an illusion that it wasn't.

I didn't respect Chicago when they did it, I certainly didn't respect TB when they blatantly did it and I have no respect for Vegas for exploiting an injury - something, as I've said before, the league won't dare intervene with because of the potential for more bad press. They had no problems shoving the Chicago debacle under the rug so I can't see the general vagueness of injury timelines being something the league would enforce strictly - ESPECIALLY when they're always trying to sell the allure to prospective owners for 800 to a billion dollars.

So, long story, I don't necessarily hate a team for trying, a hate a team for exploiting injuries.

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah, but there’s casual ribs thrown, and then there’s some straight Buffalo 66 level, Finkle/Einhorn fixation.

If you're going to put the same player on LTIR and have him come back healthy just in time for game 1 of the playoffs two years in a row, you're certainly opening yourself up for suspicion. Only the most homer of fans don't see it as at least sketchy and even the non-fans acknowledge it but merely say "hey, all teams can do it" or "They're just playing the system legally".

 

[WhataKnight]

If you're going to put the same player on LTIR and have him come back healthy just in time for game 1 of the playoffs two years in a row, you're certainly opening yourself up for suspicion. Only the most homer of fans don't see it as at least sketchy and even the non-fans acknowledge it but merely say "hey, all teams can do it" or "They're just playing the system legally".

“Laces out, Dan.”

I shrugged my shoulders and walked away from that when the league’s 3rd party doctors did.

I’ve even said it was suspicious myself; had the league decided to yeet the Knights moves into the stratosphere, it would have been both massive egg on the face and undeniable evidence of some kind of tampering.

When the league said “let it be so”, I decided that maintaining a little side-eye over it while being happy my favourite team was this adept at cap & load management was easier than complaining about it across 72 threads and a couple hundred thousand posts.

I’m eager to see what the next CBA does. There’s a clear need for some measure of “load management relief” that doesn’t come off so “prohibido” that all teams use it. Since the injuries to Stone have all gone through the league’s diligence (he did this in Ottawa as well, so it isn’t just a VGK narrative), I can change that no more than I can make the Avalanche commentators not sound Jared Fogle-ish.

 

[Tawnos]

Btw, the Lightning are doing the same thing again. Sergachev is in tonight and the Lightning wouldn’t have been able to activate him in the regular season.

It’s the same situation as Stone, but just 3 games later.

 

[TheBeard]

“Laces out, Dan.”

I shrugged my shoulders and walked away from that when the league’s 3rd party doctors did.

I’ve even said it was suspicious myself; had the league decided to yeet the Knights moves into the stratosphere, it would have been both massive egg on the face and undeniable evidence of some kind of tampering.

When the league said “let it be so”, I decided that maintaining a little side-eye over it while being happy my favourite team was this adept at cap & load management was easier than complaining about it across 72 threads and a couple hundred thousand posts.

Why would you complain about it? Like I said, homer fans won't ever question their team until things take a turn. Then suddenly those same fans won't do anything but.

Btw, the Lightning are doing the same thing again. Sergachev is in tonight and the Lightning wouldn’t have been able to activate him in the regular season.

It’s the same situation as Stone, but just 3 games later.

Yeah sure. Totally the same, and nothing to do with the fact they're rushing him back out of desperation down 3-0 in a series after being stretchered off in early February.

 

[WhataKnight]

Why would you complain about it? Like I said, homer fans won't ever question their team until things take a turn. Then suddenly those same fans won't do anything but.

I trust your barometer on what is to be considered “homer” about as much as I trust Twitter. I wasn’t screaming for Central Registry to accept the Dadonov trade, and my view on this was “let the chips fall.”

The same Twitter once alleged by some (you included) to be rife with posts suggesting VGK blow up the team. Unreliable takes practically marinated in bias in both cases. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Again, I’m waiting for the CBA. Better than 1,000 pages of complaining over Andy Lugerner’s math skills.

 

[TheBeard]

I trust your barometer on what is to be considered “homer” about as much as I trust Twitter.

The same Twitter once alleged by some (you included) to be rife with posts suggesting VGK blow up the team. Unreliable takes practically marinated in bias. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don’t even know what you’re droning on about anymore. Let’s just move on. We’re going in circles.

 

[Tawnos]

Why would you complain about it? Like I said, homer fans won't ever question their team until things take a turn. Then suddenly those same fans won't do anything but.


Yeah sure. Totally the same, and nothing to do with the fact they're rushing him back out of desperation down 3-0 in a series after being stretchered off in early February.

In terms of the cap and the “circumvention” it’s exactly the same. They’re able to put out a roster in the playoffs that’s over the salary cap with a guy they couldn’t activate if he were ready for game 82 of the regular season. The circumstances were different, but why should that matter?

Stone was absolutely rushed back too.

 

[WhataKnight]

I don’t even know what I’m droning on about anymore. Let’s just move on. We’re going in circles.

Fixed.

 

[WhataKnight]

In terms of the cap and the “circumvention” it’s exactly the same. They’re able to put out a roster in the playoffs that’s over the salary cap with a guy they couldn’t activate if he were ready for game 82 of the regular season. The circumstances were different, but why should that matter?

Stone was absolutely rushed back too.

I’m not convinced he’s 100%, myself.

 

[Tawnos]

I’m not convinced he’s 100%, myself.

I’d be surprised if he were. His injury came with a 3+ month timeline and it’s only been 2+. Healthy enough for the playoffs and healthy enough for the regular season are two different things and always have been.

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

Btw, the Lightning are doing the same thing again. Sergachev is in tonight and the Lightning wouldn’t have been able to activate him in the regular season.

It’s the same situation as Stone, but just 3 games later.

Stones timing was perfect for game 1 whereas most people are shocked that Sergachev is playing tonight but the lightning face elimination tonight it’s completely different.

Even if landeskog comes back for Colorado the fact he wasn’t there for game 1 makes it different for me.

If players miss the regular season between trade deadline and playoffs on LTIR they should not be eligible for game 1 at the very least. But that’s just my own little crazy head opinion

 

[TheBeard]

In terms of the cap and the “circumvention” it’s exactly the same. They’re able to put out a roster in the playoffs that’s over the salary cap with a guy they couldn’t activate if he were ready for game 82 of the regular season. The circumstances were different, but why should that matter?

Stone was absolutely rushed back too.

You’re not playing him the second most minutes on the team his first game back if that’s the case.

 

[Tawnos]

Stones timing was perfect for game 1 whereas most people are shocked that Sergachev is playing tonight but the lightning face elimination tonight it’s completely different.

Even if landeskog comes back for Colorado the fact he wasn’t there for game 1 makes it different for me.

If players miss the regular season between trade deadline and playoffs on LTIR they should not be eligible for game 1 at the very least. But that’s just my own little crazy head opinion

This is honestly where the argument loses me. I do understand where you’re coming from in terms of how it feels, but in terms of the legal framework that is the CBA, there is no difference. I don’t think it would be right to implement rules that treats two situations differently that are identical in every way except for the timing of recovering from an injury, which can’t be predicted precisely in the first place.

You’re not playing him the second most minutes on the team his first game back if that’s the case.

Are you a first time hockey fan or something?

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

This is honestly where the argument loses me. I do understand where you’re coming from in terms of how it feels, but in terms of the legal framework that is the CBA, there is no difference. I don’t think it would be right to implement rules that treats two situations differently that are identical in every way except for timing.



Are you a first time hockey fan or something?

Obviously that how the CBA is now lol the next cba shouldbhave something to deter the use of LTIR as it has been and a simple deterrence would be any player that does not dress minimum 1 nhl game between the trade dealine (when playoff rosters are set in stone) and the playoffs whether on LTIR or otherwise is ineligible for game 1 of the playoffs.

Just a minor deterrence and I’d be happy, injuries happen but if stone was healthy enough to play game 1 of the hard playoffs why not game 82? Is it because they would have been over the cap perhaps?

 

[Tawnos]

Obviously that how the CBA is now lol the next cba shouldbhave something to deter the use of LTIR as it has been and a simple deterrence would be any player that does not dress minimum 1 nhl game between the trade dealine (when playoff rosters are set in stone) and the playoffs whether on LTIR or otherwise is ineligible for game 1 of the playoffs.

Just a minor deterrence and I’d be happy, injuries happen but if stone was healthy enough to play game 1 of the hard playoffs why not game 82? Is it because they would have been over the cap perhaps?

Obviously we all have our suspicions, but it’s not even remotely out of the possibility that he wasn’t ready for game 82 but was ready for game 1. That’s how injury recovery works. Sergachev wasn’t ready for game 3 but is ready for game 4.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Edmonton's three 1st overall draft picks in a row(4 in 6!?!) forced the NHL to change the draft rules to the detriment of all the league losers after them. Why should it be any different in this situation?

It didn't "force" the NHL to do anything, it just chose to do something in the interest of "fairness." Which, that still didn't happen for another 7 years. But, that's an aside; let's get to your question.

Unless it's specifically stated in the CBA, the league can do whatever it wants with the draft at any time. Like, say, decide how many times a team can pick in the top-whatever in however many years. The league could change things tomorrow to have the 1-16 picks award by "lucky duck" racing through the sewers of New York City and there's nothing the NHLPA could do about it. The league could change it to a snake draft. The league could use the South Park "cut the head off a chicken" approach. The league could roll percentiles. The league could adopt any of 101 truly shitty ideas people have proposed here. If it's not outlined in the CBA, it's at the league's discretion.

Everything with respect to the cap is a CBA item, which means both the league and the NHLPA agreed to it ... which means if there's going to be a change in how the cap works or is applied, it has to be agreed to by both the league and the NHLPA.

 

[WhataKnight]

Obviously we all have our suspicions, but it’s not even remotely out of the possibility that he wasn’t ready for game 82 but was ready for game 1. That’s how injury recovery works. Sergachev wasn’t ready for game 3 but is ready for game 4.

My view is if you've been a hockey fan for a long time, 40, 30, 50 years whatever, and the game for the most part has always been respectful to the spirit of the league, and suddenly you're seeing some of the shit you've been seeing in the last ten years, not just the cap circumvention shit, but the sexual assault scandals and off-ice issues, you probably wouldn't be thrilled with the integrity. It always used to be the sport that separated itself from the other big 3 consistently marred in negative press and controversy. It's lost a lot of that, at least for me, and it's certainly transcended Vegas doing what they've done. It's clearly a money-centric league, I suppose it always has been, but there was at least an illusion that it wasn't.

I didn't respect Chicago when they did it, I certainly didn't respect TB when they blatantly did it and I have no respect for Vegas for exploiting an injury - something, as I've said before, the league won't dare intervene with because of the potential for more bad press. They had no problems shoving the Chicago debacle under the rug so I can't see the general vagueness of injury timelines being something the league would enforce strictly - ESPECIALLY when they're always trying to sell the allure to prospective owners for 800 to a billion dollars.

So, long story, I don't necessarily hate a team for trying, a hate a team for exploiting injuries.

You see, I actually get that explanation, and both of these posts underscore the need for a change to LTIR rules which all teams don’t just have access to - the bounds need to be explicitly stated.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Obviously that how the CBA is now lol the next cba shouldbhave something to deter the use of LTIR as it has been and a simple deterrence would be any player that does not dress minimum 1 nhl game between the trade dealine (when playoff rosters are set in stone) and the playoffs whether on LTIR or otherwise is ineligible for game 1 of the playoffs.

OK, you're the 186th person to suggest this. Why is the NHLPA going to sign off on that?

This idea consistently relies on the notion that the NHLPA is going to allow one of its members to be forced not to play in the playoffs not because of coach's discretion, not because of suspension, not because the player is unfit to play, but ... "because the player didn't play in any game(s) as demanded, even if the player was injured and unfit to play." Which, implicitly, means a player has to potentially endanger his health in order to be able to play in the playoffs, even when it's clearly unsafe for him to do so.

Why in the hell would the NHLPA sign off on that?

 

[WhataKnight]

11 teams facing penalties for cap overages.

Crazy that Vegas isn’t here.

 

[Tawnos]

11 teams facing penalties for cap overages.



View attachment 860801

Crazy that Vegas isn’t here.

The allowance for bonus overages makes a lot of sense. If there wasn’t the bonus overage mechanisms, teams would have to keep enough cap space in season just in case the bonus conditions are met. It would make planning that much more difficult. Calling it a penalty is really a misnomer. It’s just a mechanism GMs can use.

Just like LTIR makes a lot of sense.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Btw, the Lightning are doing the same thing again. Sergachev is in tonight and the Lightning wouldn’t have been able to activate him in the regular season.

It’s the same situation as Stone, but just 3 games later.

yeah totally the same right?

 

[TheNumber4]

Edmonton's three 1st overall draft picks in a row(4 in 6!?!) forced the NHL to change the draft rules to the detriment of all the league losers after them. Why should it be any different in this situation? A team (Vegas) is blatantly abusing a loophole in the laws of the leaugue. The argument that 'anyone can do it' and 'other teams won't argue because they may be in that situation one day' is straight and utter poo-poo. Vegas has not only broken the 'spirit' of the law in these past few seasons but also the 'spirit' of the game.

Still amazes me that the emergence of Las Vegas as a 'Premiere Sports City' and the blanket legalization of sports gambling in North America occured almost simultaneously. What a coincidence

Nope. Jealous and entitled fans whining about it made the League change the rules and make the draft a joke that had an always good New York Rangers team draft 1OA.