Post-Game Talk: Vancouver Millionaires vs. Detroit Winged Wheelers - We Still Suck

[LiquidSnake]

If you watch hockey, then I have to say your evaluation is off. There's no way OTT's depth players are better than those of the Canucks. Not a chance. Sorry. I will contest that line whenever it is said because it's so patently false that it demands rebuttal.

Depends what you define as depth:

I'd rather have guys like Zibanejed, Neil, Turris than Higgins, Raymond and Booth.

 

[Zarpan]

We're playing terribly right now, but are only 1 point off last season's total after 27 games.

Mainly need to sort out our defense.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Depends what you define as depth:

I'd rather have guys like Zibanejed, Neil, Turris than Higgins, Raymond and Booth.

Centre ice for the Canucks is poor right now, so it's an unfair comparison. But on the talent scale, there's no way that OTT stacks up depth wise. Sedins and Burrows should cancel Alfredsson, Spezza, and Michalek. But as it stands right now, H.Sedin is better than any C they have, including Turris, and Burrows is better than Michalek. Edge VAN. Then you go into the depth picks...

Zibanejad and Kassian are pretty similar in contribution. Raymond is further along than Silvferberg, and Booth has _proven_, over his NHL career, to be much better than any forward they have left. Then it gets even worse when you throw in Raymond, Higgins, Hansen etc... to finish it off.

There's no way I'm taking OTT's depth over VAN's right now. In the future, as their prospects develop further, sure. But not right now.

 

[LiquidSnake]

Centre ice for the Canucks is poor right now, so it's an unfair comparison. But on the talent scale, there's no way that OTT stacks up depth wise. Sedins and Burrows should cancel Alfredsson, Spezza, and Michalek. But as it stands right now, H.Sedin is better than any C they have, including Turris, and Burrows is better than Michalek. Edge VAN. Then you go into the depth picks...

Zibanejad and Kassian are pretty similar in contribution. Raymond is further along than Silvferberg, and Booth has _proven_, over his NHL career, to be much better than any forward they have left. Then it gets even worse when you throw in Raymond, Higgins, Hansen etc... to finish it off.

There's no way I'm taking OTT's depth over VAN's right now. In the future, as their prospects develop further, sure. But not right now.

The problem here is that none of them on either team have proven to be able to show up in the playoffs (in terms of depth). I'm talking about guys like Raymond, Higgins and Hansen. All of which had a combined 1G and 1 assist last year in the playoffs in a total of 15 games. Talk about pathetic.

I'd rather go with guys that can still improve.

With a healthy Kesler back, it hides many problems on this team.

I'm hoping that they let Higgins, Raymond, Lapierre walk.

Buyout/Trade Booth. Move away Schroeder. Say good riddance to Weise.

Hansen definately looks like he could be a solid 3rd liner going forward.

I'd rather see new faces in the lineup there. Be it drafted players or UFA signings. Either way, this broken record of goal support that isnt there in big games is getting old and repetitive.

I'd also move Edler while he has value. Still holding out for a late July Weber pipedream trade but it's clear he's not worth that value.

 

[LiquidSnake]

We're playing terribly right now, but are only 1 point off last season's total after 27 games.

Mainly need to sort out our defense.

If this was an 82 game schedule, I wouldnt give a **** even remotely. This is a shortened season and it's clear that this team as a whole is so terrible that drastic changes need to be made.

I'm all for changing the coach but they sure as hell better shakeup this bust of a roster.

Way too many Americans.

 

[MikeK]

If this was an 82 game schedule, I wouldnt give a **** even remotely. This is a shortened season and it's clear that this team as a whole is so terrible that drastic changes need to be made.

I'm all for changing the coach but they sure as hell better shakeup this bust of a roster.

Way too many Americans.

While I don't see the relevancy of Nationality I do agree there is something seriously wrong with this team. Either the coaches message is no longer being received or the personnel are clashing and not the right mix/fit. We all watch most every other team play and should be able to acknowledge the Canucks as one of the most boring and unmotivated teams in the NHL right now. I have followed this team for years, as many of us have, and I can say with out any doubt that this Canucks team is about as lifeless as I have ever seen. Probably the last time I saw this team in this light was back when we missed the playoffs on the last game of the year in a game we should have won easily. Crawford was fired that offseason and AV was brought in with that "No Favorite's" mentality to spark some energy back into the lineup.

I hate the way this team plays. I like the guys but hate the game they're playing. I am finding it very hard to watch a full game and no longer excited on game days. It use to be a planned night when the Nucks were playing. Now it's a "If I have nothing else to do I might watch". SOMETHING needs to change. The team needs a huge shake up. If player movement isn't as easy anymore due to the cap next season then the coach is the next likely change.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The problem here is that none of them on either team have proven to be able to show up in the playoffs (in terms of depth). I'm talking about guys like Raymond, Higgins and Hansen. All of which had a combined 1G and 1 assist last year in the playoffs in a total of 15 games. Talk about pathetic.

I'd rather go with guys that can still improve.

With a healthy Kesler back, it hides many problems on this team.

I'm hoping that they let Higgins, Raymond, Lapierre walk.

Buyout/Trade Booth. Move away Schroeder. Say good riddance to Weise.

Hansen definately looks like he could be a solid 3rd liner going forward.

I'd rather see new faces in the lineup there. Be it drafted players or UFA signings. Either way, this broken record of goal support that isnt there in big games is getting old and repetitive.

I'd also move Edler while he has value. Still holding out for a late July Weber pipedream trade but it's clear he's not worth that value.

That's a different argument entirely. The original argument was about the quality of depth as it stands right now. VAN's is clearly better. If you want to make a case about playoff depth scoring, then yes, I can see where you're going. But that's a separate issue that has as much to do with the personnel as it does the plan, as well as the teams we face.

I'm hoping they keep as much of this team as possible... just change the coach and pick up a centre. They should be good after that.

Going 0 for 33 has really hit this team hard as far as goal production goes. Not only are they missing about 8 goals, they miss the momentum their PP creates, as well as keeping things loose offensively. Relaxed players produce. Right now, everyone is gripping their stick and the play is haphazard and forced. Probably about another 5 goals missing from that alone... That probably gets them to about 87-90 goals for, which puts them right near the top of the conference.

It's not as bad as we think it is, but it is bad. They should be doing more with what they have, but they aren't.

 

[Orca Smash]

So i did not see the game, out at a friend function, but can someone tell me what happened?

Again against an injured detroit team?

Browsing over twitter someone said booth is out, and so is kassian is this true?

I hope that smug smile was wiped cleanly off av's face after last game. I want this team to be a cup contender but i cannot kid myself into thinking it is.

 

[me2]

If this was an 82 game schedule, I wouldnt give a **** even remotely. This is a shortened season and it's clear that this team as a whole is so terrible that drastic changes need to be made.

I'm all for changing the coach but they sure as hell better shakeup this bust of a roster.

Way too many Americans.

The difference is last years team started slow then got hot. This one is getting colder.

 

[mossey3535]

So i did not see the game, out at a friend function, but can someone tell me what happened?

Again against an injured detroit team?

Browsing over twitter someone said booth is out, and so is kassian is this true?

I hope that smug smile was wiped cleanly off av's face after last game. I want this team to be a cup contender but i cannot kid myself into thinking it is.

They started off on fire, outshot the Wings in first period. Wings looked a little confused but we were also pushing play. Only reason they were in it is our typical offensive ineptitude, a couple of stellar Howard saves, and a fluke goal off Garrison.

You could see in the second period a gradual letdown. Wings started playing their game. IMO some bad PP's by us here started the slide. DET goes up one on the PP.

By the time the third started we were mailing it in. Complete 180 in terms of effort and energy. Bad 3-1 goal by Lu, more air our of the balloon. Edler makes an absolutely idiotic play to screen Lu on a long wrist shot. I left with 10 minutes remaining for my own hockey, pretty confident we were done.

Jekyll and Hyde performance, you've seen it before lol.

 

[Orca Smash]

They started off on fire, outshot the Wings in first period. Wings looked a little confused but we were also pushing play. Only reason they were in it is our typical offensive ineptitude, a couple of stellar Howard saves, and a fluke goal off Garrison.

You could see in the second period a gradual letdown. Wings started playing their game. IMO some bad PP's by us here started the slide. DET goes up one on the PP.

By the time the third started we were mailing it in. Complete 180 in terms of effort and energy. Bad 3-1 goal by Lu, more air our of the balloon. Edler makes an absolutely idiotic play to screen Lu on a long wrist shot. I left with 10 minutes remaining for my own hockey, pretty confident we were done.

Jekyll and Hyde performance, you've seen it before lol.

Thank you mossey you are one of my most respected posters on this forum. Thanks for the review. The Jekyll and hyde stuff has been going on far to long, yet im sure some people will find a reason to claim everyone is overreacting.

 

[Yossarian54]

I'd say the mass hysteria is pretty warranted. Sadly, not a whole lot to be optimistic about right now.

Optimistic, maybe not. Hysteria, **** no. Comparing our line-up to Ottawa's current one unfavourably? Are people actually serious. I mean stuff like this:

Depends what you define as depth:

I'd rather have guys like Zibanejed, Neil, Turris than Higgins, Raymond and Booth.

Turris is not depth. He is their 2nd line centre when the entire team is healthy, he's their 1st right now. Would one rather have Turris or H.Sedin? But of course, Chris Neil's 28 point season last year (i.e. his second highest) and Zibanejed's (one of their top prospects I might add - who now looks to *maybe* be a 3C) whole 10 NHL points point to superior depth.

I will (and have) been one of the first to criticise this team for under-performing and failing to correct systemic errors. But to suggest that this roster is manifestly incapable of being anything more than middle of the pack? Really.

 

[CP]

The Canucks don't have an NHL quality center after Hank. Teams with high skill at center like the wings are going to toy with the Canucks until this issue is resolved.

Players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg are chuckling inside as they line up against Higgins, Ebbett, Lappy, Raymond for a face-off.

Kesler, Hodgson, and Malholtra gave these players something to worry about.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

It's not like it's new for the board to explode after such a loss where we thought we were heading in the right direction. I'm still not concerned with our playoff hopes. I'm a little concerned about getting a top seed. I'm extremely concerned we wouldn't go far in the playoffs at all.

To change this team, Gillis will have to do all the things he's been rumoured to do in the media so far this season:
A) Trade a goalie
B) Trade for a center...preferably a shut-down center
C) Trade for a higher end forward

3 out of 3 would be excellent, but considering other teams' situation I can't see it happening. 2 out of 3 would be good and 1 out of 3 would be passable. But he can't stand pat on that front. It's a recipe for disaster and a white flag raiser.

If he could finally get rid of the square peg in Ballard for a RHD as well as 2 of the 3 up there, his work this season would be commendable.

 

[canucksfan]

Lots blame to go around. AV should get some. MG should get some as well. Some of his pickups haven't been that good, booth Ballard etc. LA was in a similar scenario last season and changed things and they turned it around.

 

[BerSTUzzi]

Lots blame to go around. AV should get some. MG should get some as well. Some of his pickups haven't been that good, booth Ballard etc. LA was in a similar scenario last season and changed things and they turned it around.

The problem is everyone forgets LA sucked for a bunch of seasons and thus had a bunch of players knocking on the door to the NHL. It's tough to trade away the "future" of a team when we don't have a lot in the cupboard right now. The only player that goes right now that teams in the East would die for is Edler (Philly for sure).

 

[canucksfan]

The problem is everyone forgets LA sucked for a bunch of seasons and thus had a bunch of players knocking on the door to the NHL. It's tough to trade away the "future" of a team when we don't have a lot in the cupboard right now. The only player that goes right now that teams in the East would die for is Edler (Philly for sure).

You can trade Schneider but I do agree with you.

 

[JuniorNelson]

The Canucks don't have an NHL quality center after Hank. Teams with high skill at center like the wings are going to toy with the Canucks until this issue is resolved.

Players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg are chuckling inside as they line up against Higgins, Ebbett, Lappy, Raymond for a face-off.

Kesler, Hodgson, and Malholtra gave these players something to worry about.

This is true. I am actually astounded that Gillis has employment at this juncture. He is simply the wrong guy. Entering the season with known issues at center, but no "plan B" is crazy. Rehiring Vignault after last season's result is also just insane.

Gillis has dug himself a hole with this line-up. The fixes via trade have become too expensive because the needs are known and well demonstrated. Gillis has to get a couple of centers but has never done this type of trading. The Canucks need bolstering for the regular season, never mind the playoffs.

Gillis has never bolstered his team for a playoff run, despite glaring needs. He has let awesome opportunities pass without action. What did he do to build the team since January? How has he reacted to obvious issues? What's he doing about it, right now? Media synchphants report he is "working the phones". Why isn't he just enacting previously negotiated deals? Why is it a centerless circus on the ice at the halway point of the season?

Gillis was an agent. He is in the position of begging from General Managers. Hahahaha! How do you suppose that's going? Wait, this guy played in the league and agents network, can't he just rely on old team mates and cronies? This is the guy who publicly called out a media personality about loading up at the buffet table, on air! Called him a fat guy, too. Do you suppose he is mobbed by pals at GM meetings? What reaction has all this "working the phones" garnered?

Ask anybody in construction about the Aquilinis. Ask anybody in management about Gillis. Ask any other team about the Canucks. See a trend?

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Not much to say about this that hasn't already been said, really.

Datsyuk owned the Canucks in this game. He made our top defender (Hamhuis) look like a preschooler on multiple occasions. As much as I hated watching him skate circles around us, I couldn't help but be impressed.

Vigneault's puzzling decision to start Luongo after what wasn't his best game against Nashville bit him in the backside on this one. First two goals were solid, but the next two were brutal. Luongo admitted after the game he needed to be better, and he wasn't wrong.

Sucks to lose Booth to injury again as he had been one of our better skating forwards over the last stretch. With him, Kassian and Kesler out, our forward lineup is beginning to look wafer thin.

Henrik Sedin is our only quality center at the moment. Lapierre is a fourth liner being miscast as a third liner, and Andrew Ebbett is an AHLer being miscast as an NHLer. He reverted back to his usual crappy self in this game, and you can see why he's so good at the AHL level, but not at the NHL - several times there were opportunities for him to make plays, but he was slow on the uptake and got checked before he did.

Another guy in the same vein is Alberts. I'm unspeakably happy that his contract is up this year.

After the 3rd Detroit goal, nobody on the Canucks really looked good; stopped skating, stopped working...just embarrassing. Of equal dismay was the PP's continued impotence, especially during that prolonged 5-on-3 that didn't seem to yield a single opportunity.

Ugly game that I'd like to forget, but will likely be unable to. The Canucks are in trouble in multiple respects - their depth both at the bigs and on the farm is the thinnest it's been in a while due to injuries, their PP is shooting blanks, and that's to say nothing of the coaching.

 

[thebigbea]

Funny how refs always call penalties when the game is out of reach for the other team.

 

[Dado]

I will (and have) been one of the first to criticise this team for under-performing and failing to correct systemic errors. But to suggest that this roster is manifestly incapable of being anything more than middle of the pack? Really.

It's not a question of "being incapable", it's a question of how much effort is needed to maintain a high level over a long stretch.

IMO both Ottawa and Vancouver are teams that now require above-average effort to achieve that. In contrast, the Oilers are a team that requires super-human effort, while Chicago, for example, can get by on average effort.

 

[Dado]

Funny how refs always call penalties when the game is out of reach for the other team.

What are you referring to? Vancouver had the first two PPs of the game. All-in, Vancouver had fully twice as many PPs as Detroit.

Blaming this in any way on the reffing is not supportable.

 

[Grub]

Not much to say about this that hasn't already been said, really.

Datsyuk owned the Canucks in this game. He made our top defender (Hamhuis) look like a preschooler on multiple occasions. As much as I hated watching him skate circles around us, I couldn't help but be impressed.

Vigneault's puzzling decision to start Luongo after what wasn't his best game against Nashville bit him in the backside on this one. First two goals were solid, but the next two were brutal. Luongo admitted after the game he needed to be better, and he wasn't wrong.

Sucks to lose Booth to injury again as he had been one of our better skating forwards over the last stretch. With him, Kassian and Kesler out, our forward lineup is beginning to look wafer thin.

Henrik Sedin is our only quality center at the moment. Lapierre is a fourth liner being miscast as a third liner, and Andrew Ebbett is an AHLer being miscast as an NHLer. He reverted back to his usual crappy self in this game, and you can see why he's so good at the AHL level, but not at the NHL - several times there were opportunities for him to make plays, but he was slow on the uptake and got checked before he did.

Another guy in the same vein is Alberts. I'm unspeakably happy that his contract is up this year.

After the 3rd Detroit goal, nobody on the Canucks really looked good; stopped skating, stopped working...just embarrassing. Of equal dismay was the PP's continued impotence, especially during that prolonged 5-on-3 that didn't seem to yield a single opportunity.

Ugly game that I'd like to forget, but will likely be unable to. The Canucks are in trouble in multiple respects - their depth both at the bigs and on the farm is the thinnest it's been in a while due to injuries, their PP is shooting blanks, and that's to say nothing of the coaching.

Yep you hit every point.

How can we forget a game like this... not only were we trying to honor the Vancouver Millionairs but we lost it in such a fashion that I feel embarassed that these players can call themselves the "millionaires"... on top of that we got humiliated in hockey night in Canada where the viewership is much more higher.

Everything that went wrong did.

Your move Gillis. Either you let Nonis' coach go or you should pack your bags and leave Vancouver.

Cody Hodgson would look so much better centering our 2nd line.... I mean... Gillis saying we don't need hodgson was just complete asset mismanagement... I don't understand this "need" for a bruising forward like Kassian, he is simply a plug. The reason he even has any points this season is because he played with the Sedins, he hasn't done anything 5 on 5 without them. The Hodgson move was not a hockey deal, we did not NEED Kassian, we needed a centre more then anything. And please don't start saying Hodgson would not have played under AV, Hodgson is terrible defensively. KASSIAN is astrocious defensively, the reason Kassian was even floating and playing, is because Gillis was trying to safe face from this deal.

You know the funny thing is almost every young prospect we trade away always goes with the "AV would not have played him anyways, They can't play defense". What are we trying to do... turn them all into grinders? Let them play a style where they excel the most. Defense will be learned through game time.

 

[Dado]

Next time they play Detroit they should bring out the "Thousandaires" uniforms.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Next time they play Detroit they should bring out the "Thousandaires" uniforms.

I think having Loonie (one dollar) as their logo would have been more appropriate last night.