Proposal: VAN-NYR-OTT

innitfam

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
2,934
2,173
to :rangers

Brandon Sutter
Jordie Benn (via Ottawa, 750k retained by Vancouver, 750k by Ottawa)

to :sens

Brendan Smith (via Vancouver, 2.175M retained)
Sven Baertschi (1.683M retained by Vancouver)
2021 VAN 2nd round pick

to :nucks

2021 NYR 5th round pick

Senators bury Baertschi in the minors afterwards in this scenario. If they do not want to bury Baertschi, take the Benn retention off Ottawa and assign 1M Vancouver instead of 750k. The Senators could also choose to bury Baertschi in any case. The calculations below would be based on the trade above and assuming Ottawa buries Baertschi.


Senators cap hit changes

OUT: 0
IN: 2.175 + 1.683 + 0.75 - 1.025 = 3.583M
TOTAL: Add 3.583M in cap hit

Canucks cap hit changes:

OUT: 2.175 + 1.683 + 1.25 = 5.108M
IN: 0
TOTAL: Gain 5.108M cap space


Rangers cap hit changes:

OUT: 4.35 = 4.35M
IN: 4.375 + 0.50 = 4.875M
TOTAL: Add 525k in cap hit


Vancouver gains cap space to sign a few players to fill out the roster (Haula, Vatanen etc)

Ottawa adds a 2nd in return for short term cap retention, adding 3.175M in real dollars (1.175M from Smith, 1.2M from Baertschi and 800k from Benn). They also get Smith and either take a flyer on Baertschi on a prove it or lose it year or just bury him.

The Rangers swap RD and add a stopgap center for 1 year, adding minimal cap of 525k. Looking at the Rangers roster, Zibanejad and Strome (once signed) are 1-2, and there are few other Cs. Sutter can shoulder defensive, PK and faceoff responsibilities for younger guys like Chytil or Howden. Can play on the third or fourth line. Probably bumps Di Giuseppe or Blackwell from the lineup. If I'm wrong on the fit, so be it, but it looks like it could work... from an outsider's perspective anyway.

With Melnyk's penny pinching of course this might be a futile exercise... or possibly the incentive may not be high enough.
 
Last edited:

bobbyb2009

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
1,909
970
I read your proposal as Vancouver retaining on Smith?? (and Baetrschi and Benn) but I can't calculate your summary as nothing IN? Are you suggesting Smith come via Vancouver?
 

innitfam

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
2,934
2,173
I read your proposal as Vancouver retaining on Smith?? (and Baetrschi and Benn) but I can't calculate your summary as nothing IN? Are you suggesting Smith come via Vancouver?

Yes, via Vancouver. Sorry forgot to include.
 

IranCondraAffair

Registered User
Mar 10, 2006
9,258
3,956
Ottawa does not need or want Smith

Ottawa does not need or want Sven

Ottawa does not need or want to add unnecessary salary and they are already well above the cap floor

Ottawa has plenty of of extra draft picks and does not need a second rounder in exchange for millions of dollars in extra spending

Ottawa can acquire better players than Smith and Baertschi for less money.

Ottawa has plenty of roster players and adding anymore would just take away spots from good young players.

Ottawa, if they wanted, could acquire better draft picks for the salary cap space they have while spending less money.

Brutal deal for Ottawa.
 

KnuckChuckinTkachuk

Give'yer balls a tug
Jan 23, 2011
2,107
976
What would that extra incentive be in your opinion?

Hard to say, our roster is pretty set but previous cap dumps of this size have costed a 1st round picks.

You're essentially dumping 9.741 million dollars off the roster at the cost of only a 2nd.. if it were that easy it would have been done by now. No one during COVID times are going to help out the Canucks without the return being absolutely worth it.
 
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innitfam

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
2,934
2,173
Hard to say, our roster is pretty set but previous cap dumps of this size have costed a 1st round picks.

You're essentially dumping 9.741 million dollars off the roster at the cost of only a 2nd.. if it were that easy it would have been done by now. No one during COVID times are going to help out the Canucks without the return being absolutely worth it.

It's not 9.741M though because the Canucks retain on all contracts going out. With Staal at a 5.7M hit moved out for only a 2nd, a 1st seems high when the Senators are taking on less than that.

The roster player argument for Ottawa is something I didn't consider enough in the proposal I will definitely concede that.
 
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Nickmo82

Registered User
Mar 31, 2012
6,068
4,355
Japan
Assuming Strome signs, the Rangers don't need a stopgap centre. Not entirely sure Benn is an upgrade on Smith either.

Ergo: no.
 
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KnuckChuckinTkachuk

Give'yer balls a tug
Jan 23, 2011
2,107
976
It's not 9.741M though because the Canucks retain on all contracts going out. With Staal at a 5.7M hit moved out for only a 2nd, a 1st seems high when the Senators are taking on less than that.

The roster player argument for Ottawa is something I didn't consider enough in the proposal I will definitely concede that.

Regardless, even with the retentions you're still saving 5.15 mil in cap space giving you a 77.85mil cap total. 5.15 mil of cap space, especially in a COVID market is premium and the demands have changed.
 

82Ninety42011

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
7,697
5,714
Abbotsford BC
If anyone wants to dump cap with Sens no need to involve other teams deal directly with them. As per OP that's not nearly enough for Sens to be interested.
 
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SensFactor

Registered User
Oct 25, 2008
11,012
6,180
Ottawa
to :rangers

Brandon Sutter
Jordie Benn (via Ottawa, 750k retained by Vancouver, 750k by Ottawa)

to :sens

Brendan Smith (via Vancouver, 2.175M retained)
Sven Baertschi (1.683M retained by Vancouver)
2021 VAN 2nd round pick

to :nucks

2021 NYR 5th round pick

Senators bury Baertschi in the minors afterwards in this scenario. If they do not want to bury Baertschi, take the Benn retention off Ottawa and assign 1M Vancouver instead of 750k. The Senators could also choose to bury Baertschi in any case. The calculations below would be based on the trade above and assuming Ottawa buries Baertschi.


Senators cap hit changes

OUT: 0
IN: 2.175 + 1.683 + 0.75 - 1.025 = 3.583M
TOTAL: Add 3.583M in cap hit

Canucks cap hit changes:

OUT: 2.175 + 1.683 + 1.25 = 5.108M
IN: 0
TOTAL: Gain 5.108M cap space


Rangers cap hit changes:

OUT: 4.35 = 4.35M
IN: 4.375 + 0.50 = 4.875M
TOTAL: Add 525k in cap hit


Vancouver gains cap space to sign a few players to fill out the roster (Haula, Vatanen etc)

Ottawa adds a 2nd in return for short term cap retention, adding 3.175M in real dollars (1.175M from Smith, 1.2M from Baertschi and 800k from Benn). They also get Smith and either take a flyer on Baertschi on a prove it or lose it year or just bury him.

The Rangers swap RD and add a stopgap center for 1 year, adding minimal cap of 525k. Looking at the Rangers roster, Zibanejad and Strome (once signed) are 1-2, and there are few other Cs. Sutter can shoulder defensive, PK and faceoff responsibilities for younger guys like Chytil or Howden. Can play on the third or fourth line. Probably bumps Di Giuseppe or Blackwell from the lineup. If I'm wrong on the fit, so be it, but it looks like it could work... from an outsider's perspective anyway.

With Melnyk's penny pinching of course this might be a futile exercise... or possibly the incentive may not be high enough.

Not sure why the Sens do this? Sens will need the cap space soon enough to sign Tkachuk and a lot of RFAs next year which include Batherson, Abramov, Logan Brown, Balcers, Wolanin, etc.
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
23,960
5,684
Alexandria, VA
to :rangers

Brandon Sutter
Jordie Benn (via Ottawa, 750k retained by Vancouver, 750k by Ottawa)

to :sens

Brendan Smith (via Vancouver, 2.175M retained)
Sven Baertschi (1.683M retained by Vancouver)
2021 VAN 2nd round pick

to :nucks

2021 NYR 5th round pick

Senators bury Baertschi in the minors afterwards in this scenario. If they do not want to bury Baertschi, take the Benn retention off Ottawa and assign 1M Vancouver instead of 750k. The Senators could also choose to bury Baertschi in any case. The calculations below would be based on the trade above and assuming Ottawa buries Baertschi.


Senators cap hit changes

OUT: 0
IN: 2.175 + 1.683 + 0.75 - 1.025 = 3.583M
TOTAL: Add 3.583M in cap hit

Canucks cap hit changes:

OUT: 2.175 + 1.683 + 1.25 = 5.108M
IN: 0
TOTAL: Gain 5.108M cap space


Rangers cap hit changes:

OUT: 4.35 = 4.35M
IN: 4.375 + 0.50 = 4.875M
TOTAL: Add 525k in cap hit


Vancouver gains cap space to sign a few players to fill out the roster (Haula, Vatanen etc)

Ottawa adds a 2nd in return for short term cap retention, adding 3.175M in real dollars (1.175M from Smith, 1.2M from Baertschi and 800k from Benn). They also get Smith and either take a flyer on Baertschi on a prove it or lose it year or just bury him.

The Rangers swap RD and add a stopgap center for 1 year, adding minimal cap of 525k. Looking at the Rangers roster, Zibanejad and Strome (once signed) are 1-2, and there are few other Cs. Sutter can shoulder defensive, PK and faceoff responsibilities for younger guys like Chytil or Howden. Can play on the third or fourth line. Probably bumps Di Giuseppe or Blackwell from the lineup. If I'm wrong on the fit, so be it, but it looks like it could work... from an outsider's perspective anyway.

With Melnyk's penny pinching of course this might be a futile exercise... or possibly the incentive may not be high enough.

Retention can’t be done that way.

If Vancouver retained .75 of 2 leaving 2.25...75 exceeds 50% rule

Haven’t looked at others.

Ottawa is using up $4Am in space snd only get a 2nd...not enough. Rent price is higher.
 
Last edited:

M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
Sponsor
May 25, 2014
45,785
31,100
Less retention from Vancity and id consider the OPs proposal
 

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