Confirmed with Link: [VAN/MTL] Dale Weise for Raphael Diaz part 2

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[Theosis]

Really? Part II?

 

[WG]

We don't know that he didn't try to get more. This is probably the best he could do right now, trading to a team like Vancouver who just lost Bieksa, creating a need for a Diaz.

If MB didn't move now and VAN found a replacement elsewhere, no guarantee that someone would show interest in Diaz at the deadline. He went with the bird in the bush and it's all right, considering he did so using a low-level asset.

Considering that scrubs of all shapes and sizes are traded at the deadline (see: career journeyman and jack-of-no-trades Drewiske for a 5th) I find it hard to imagine MB couldn't have done better than this. Hell, even if Therrien didn't want to use Diaz, in a week's time he'd be playing in Sochi and might show a little something there (certainly more than he was sitting in the stands) that might increase his value.

If the choice was wait and try for better vs. acquire a generic grinder to a team already employing Moen, White and Prust, I'd have taken my chances and waited. Maybe the team sees something in Weise but this looks pretty underwhelming. And certainly this whole setup is not going to appear in the Asset Management 101 textbook.

 

[Whitesnake]

Common theme on here..and an utter farce actually.

Well not really as you are not part of the "common theme". And as you've also seen others agreeing with you. Having said that....not sure I've already established Weise as a failure already. Only thing I'm saying, is that Nucks weren't a fan of his.....pretty sure they also have professionnals working for them. And for a guy who might have all those assets, it's his 3rd team at 25 years old. Grant...be honest.....If the Habs would have done the same thing....if they would have let go a 25 year old guy in a trade and I would have hated it....I'm absolutely SURE you would have been amongst the first ones to say that "Wake up WS....he's 25 years old and is being shipped to his 3rd team...don't you think they do know something that you don't".....And yes.....as fans we can only go with what we are being told by fans who disliked him....and by journalists who said that he had trouble accepting his role. Now...if he GETS it and plays great...well fine with me. If it means in the end that we got an actually younger Moen which permit us to ship Moen for something else and he'll do as good a job (though that mean not losing every fight and play some PK), I'll say great. But as of now, the real guy that we got in this trade is indeed to be determined.

But I hope it makes Beaulieu play more often. Which I believes is the real great news of this trade.

 

[HarlemsFinest]

So tired of these lateral-at-best moves. At least we don't have to worry about that ridiculous rumor of signing him long term. I liked diaz cause he costed nothing to get. He had some flashes on PP early last season but after that, has been a big fat nobody, capable of nothing.

Get people on this team we've at least heard of. Coming into this season, davis fkn drewiske was retained as a piece of this puzzle. How exciting. Although I think he contributes more on LTIR than he could on ice.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

You can not like the trade, but calling Weise a fringe NHLer when he has more points than Moen, Prust, Bourque in less games while playing a very similar grinding style at the age of 25 doesn't make sense to me.

Well, how does ~10 seasons/666 games, ~7 seasons/362 games, and ~9 seasons/540 games vs. ~3 seasons/162 games sound? But if he even turns out to be as good as a guy who subs in and out of that 4th line RW role with Parros (not holding my breath), he won't be worth a defenseman like Diaz; certainly not, one would have thought, when dealing with a team that's desperately trying to "keep up with the Jones'", with well under $2 million projected space for the trade deadline, and having to back-fill enough bodies to compensate for at least their top 2 RH defensemen, with their top RH prospect (Corrado) already rushed into duty, and the "next best guys" from within probably being Biega (capable 5'11" AHLer) and Blain (bumped to the ECHL)...

But here we are. Hopefully whatever else Bergevin "knows" about the situation will prove its worth in some tangible way. Really not liking this move at the moment, obviously.

 

[DekeLikeYouMeanIt]

Most annoying part is that it moves Bouillon closer to a starting spot.

 

[TT1]

short clip of weise, he looks like a good team guy
followed by a kassian-neil fight and a torts super saiyan speech

 

[Whitesnake]

Most annoying part is that it moves Bouillon closer to a starting spot.

It can't. Not with Beaulieu in it now. It better not be.

 

[deandebean]

Any of you were privy to the discussions Bergevin had with his counterparts. Because it sure as hell looks like some here think Diaz was worth much more.

 

[Kriss E]

Least goals against per-60 minutes... playing half of the season with Murray and Bouillon.

IIRC, his GAA per 60 minutes was the lowest in the league before he got paired with those bums.

I don't understand why the guys arguing for Murray completely ignore this.

I wonder if Eller is next?

I mentioned it before. If I'm another team's GM, I would have targeted Diaz and Eller. They're probably at their lowest value, likely unhappy (Diaz more so than Eller), and have pretty good potential.

 

[Kriss E]

The people thinking Weise is a physical winger, he hits about as much as Bourque.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Most annoying part is that it moves Bouillon closer to a starting spot.

This is definitely part of what I'm saying. Time for a playoff plunge, boys. Get Drewiske in there, too, and convert Galchenyuk to his defense partner while we're at it. Wouldn't seem any less bizarro world to me.

The people thinking Weise is a physical winger, he hits about as much as Bourque.

And this is also what I'm saying. Lots of people praying by the stats, but he's... just not good. And it was widely-known that he and the organization had rubbed each other the wrong way - probably for the last time, based on the type of player we're talking about here. How the hell did Bergevin get involved in acquiring Weise in the first place, though? Who the F tossed his name forward as a target, is what I'd like to know.

 

[uiCk]

It can't. Not with Beaulieu in it now. It better not be.

What if Beaulieu gets on very predictable (not saying he sucks, just saying HE WILL have bad games like any other player in the NHL) string of bad games? this management and coaching has shown that they are very quick to pull the trigger (few exceptions obv lol)

 

[Jamie Thomas]

Any of you were privy to the discussions Bergevin had with his counterparts. Because it sure as hell looks like some here think Diaz was worth much more.

I would expect him to be worth more than a 4th line plug.

 

[uiCk]

The people thinking Weise is a physical winger, he hits about as much as Bourque.

but he's 6' + bro. that's all it takes to be an "upgrade on Moen" it seems

 

[HabsHockey*]

What if Beaulieu gets on very predictable (not saying he sucks, just saying HE WILL have bad games like any other player in the NHL) string of bad games? this management and coaching has shown that they are very quick to pull the trigger (few exceptions obv lol)

Then we're back to having Diaz on our team except his name is now Beaulieu.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Well not really as you are not part of the "common theme". And as you've also seen others agreeing with you. Having said that....not sure I've already established Weise as a failure already. Only thing I'm saying, is that Nucks weren't a fan of his.....pretty sure they also have professionnals working for them. And for a guy who might have all those assets, it's his 3rd team at 25 years old. Grant...be honest.....If the Habs would have done the same thing....if they would have let go a 25 year old guy in a trade and I would have hated it....I'm absolutely SURE you would have been amongst the first ones to say that "Wake up WS....he's 25 years old and is being shipped to his 3rd team...don't you think they do know something that you don't".....And yes.....as fans we can only go with what we are being told by fans who disliked him....and by journalists who said that he had trouble accepting his role. Now...if he GETS it and plays great...well fine with me. If it means in the end that we got an actually younger Moen which permit us to ship Moen for something else and he'll do as good a job (though that mean not losing every fight and play some PK), I'll say great. But as of now, the real guy that we got in this trade is indeed to be determined.

But I hope it makes Beaulieu play more often. Which I believes is the real great news of this trade.

I wouldn't form my opinion on Weise and the trade based on what emotional Canuck fans say the day he is traded..why not wait and watch him play before being negative about the deal at all? I'm not judging the trade yet..I think it will benefit both teams so I don't mind it at this point. Diaz did not have a future here..and the Habs got bigger and tougher as per the preseason plan. We'll see how thatworks out as you say.

In regards to the trade..if VCR had been Montreal... I would have said "Montreal is decimated by injuries on the blueline right now...Torts (if he was the Hab coach) likes shot blockers Diaz is one of the league's best at it. Don't like losing Weise, but we have some guys in the system that can replace him."

Oh..and I would have said "Wake up WS" first. ;-0

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

Yeah, I read those numbers about him having a stellar goals against vs icetime. Still think he was a soft blueliner and best suited to the 3rd line but those numbers are impressive.

We'll see how he does in Vancouver but I think we'd have just been better off playing him in our lineup. We'll see I guess

I don't really like using goal against number due to the highly volatile nature of on ice SV% in any short sample but the shots against number look just as good.

Probably. Bergevin looked at a team that lacked NHL caliber RH defenceman and his solution was to get rid of one because grit. That's not encouraging for the future.

 

[Peteux]

The people thinking Weise is a physical winger, he hits about as much as Bourque.

Let's talk about hits/TOI, shall we?

 

[vokiel]

Let's talk about hits/TOI, shall we?

How about it makes no difference so no?

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Least goals against per-60 minutes... playing half of the season with Murray and Bouillon.

IIRC, his GAA per 60 minutes was the lowest in the league before he got paired with those bums.

Yet his visuals clearly tell that he was no elite defensive defenseman. Where is the superb awareness present in Diaz that is present in Scuderi? Oh, that's right, his hockey sense is not up to that level.

 

[Talks to Goalposts]

I don't disagree with him...but none of this really justifies him being a top 6 dman on the Habs.

I just don't see how the Habs defense, presently built, how you can mix in Diaz AND Beaulieu in this lineup

Subban/Gorges - Emelin-Markov - Diaz/Beaulieu

Hmm...

I just don't see Diaz as a fit on this team and i'm not convinced like everyone else is, that his value was all that high.

Now the Canucks are definitely getting the best player in the deal, and by logic, I guess the team that gets the 'best' player wins the deal...

But again, Diaz didn't have a future in this organization and at some point, getting anything for him is better than nothing.

This is kind of a Catch 22 situation for MB...and don't think other GM's don't know this too.

Some of you have done so many trade proposals involving Diaz that you think that means his value is something, it probably isn't close to being

There was an immediate an obvious role for Diaz in this lineup. He's a guy that can play defense successfully on the right side of the ice. After Subban none of the other defenders have shown that consistently this season.

play him with Markov, play him with Gorges, play him with Emelin on the left, play him with Beaulieu in a soft minute pairing that tries and go score against weak opposition. All of these options are better than using non-NHLers like Boullion and in particular Murray in the lineup.

Particularly with Beaulieu. How many good attempts by Beaulieu to jump start the offense have been squandered in the last couple games because Murray can't handle the puck at this level? Diaz can play defense and play the puck. He's as good a bet as anyone in the lineup to play it safe while the rookie does his thing.

Despite what certain persons are claiming in the face of observable evidence, Murray doesn't make things safer for Beaulieu. The kind of plays Murray makes look safer because they get the puck out of immediate danger, but are actually riskier because they give the other team a fresh chance to try attack. He gives up so much offensive zone time the other team is bound to get an opening eventually, and he's a ticking time bomb to be out of position because he can't skate. Diaz plays actual safe hockey that tries to control where the puck is rather than giving it away.

Long term, sure he's a replaceable part. But the best way to get better fast is to get rid of you're worst players for decent ones. Mtl is getting rid of decent players to keep bad ones.

Particularly for a guy that doesn't bring anything to the 4th line winger spot they didn't have in White, Moen and Prust. Unless they want guys like Moen and Prust playing higher in the lineup, which is also stupid. Weise isn't a need, he's not good enough to play a role above what they already have and doesn't even bring any special skills to the table.

 

[No More Subban]

God damn! There is a part II? What a shame I missed out on Part 1!

Seriously though, I was happy to hear this news at work today. I couldn't believe Bergevin did something!

 

[Habaneros]

Any of you were privy to the discussions Bergevin had with his counterparts. Because it sure as hell looks like some here think Diaz was worth much more.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/02/03/dale-weise-traded-for-raphael-diaz-some-thoughts/

- We now know that whoever the source was that talked about Gillis sending an email to all other NHL GM’s letting them know Weise was on the table was right on the money.