Confirmed with Link: [VAN/FLA] Luongo, Anthony for Matthias, Markstrom - Pt. 2

[y2kcanucks]

His own twitter comments about Kesler. "We know how this ends"
He's making light of the fact that he still hasn't been moved, regardless of him wanting it.

And you have to work very hard to find a snapshot where Luongo has outplayed his backup in the past 3 years. Lack was coming off 2 games where he allowed 1 goal between them. We went through this, but you somehow can't accept it.

Lack = playing VERY well since the break.
Luongo = 1 (non competetive) game in a month.
Ice was bad --> injury risk
Luongo has a history of injury in early games
Luongo was making comments again
Trade deadline was a few days away, and it's very clear there were intentions of moving him.

Take your blinders off. The above are all FACTS.

Your argument = *sniff sniff* Luongo's the #1, and he deseeeeerved it!

I think you're reading too much into it and interpreting a small joke as something more than that to fit your own argument.

And all of the above are not facts. They stated during the game that the ice was excellent with zero issues at all. Just blindly stating the ice was bad doesn't make it a fact. Also, Luongo has played several early games without injury. Just because Luongo got injured in a Saturday night game in early January does that mean he has a history of getting injured in Saturday night games too?

What comments was Luongo making? The fact that he was disappointed about being snubbed in a marquee event this year? ANY starting goalie is going to make those comments about being very disappointed.

How is it a fact that it was very clear the Canucks had the intention of moving Luongo? It isn't as if Gillis was having discussions for several weeks regarding moving Luongo. Those discussions didn't come up again until AFTER the Heritage Classic.

 

[Wolfhard]

I think you're reading too much into it and interpreting a small joke as something more than that to fit your own argument.

And all of the above are not facts. They stated during the game that the ice was excellent with zero issues at all. Just blindly stating the ice was bad doesn't make it a fact. Also, Luongo has played several early games without injury. Just because Luongo got injured in a Saturday night game in early January does that mean he has a history of getting injured in Saturday night games too?

What comments was Luongo making? The fact that he was disappointed about being snubbed in a marquee event this year? ANY starting goalie is going to make those comments about being very disappointed.

How is it a fact that it was very clear the Canucks had the intention of moving Luongo? It isn't as if Gillis was having discussions for several weeks regarding moving Luongo. Those discussions didn't come up again until AFTER the Heritage Classic.

"They" stated that the ice was great? Gillis stated that the ice was poor after the game, and said they wanted to keep Luongo off it, as they were looking at moving him. You can claim his lies if you want to, but he went on record saying it. As opposed to some random comment from a colour guy who wouldn't likely know any better.

And yes, Luongo was whining again. He constantly draws attention to it, and always creates a ton of controversy. If he was a good teammate he'd shut his mouth. Creating that kind of drama shows disrespect to your teammates, even if you are well liked in the room. Lack didn't need to deal with that BS just because Luongo can't use a little tact and act professionally.

Since you claim any #1 would do it (Let's be honest. Luongo hasn't played like a #1 in years), show me some comments where "#1 goalies" have publicly complained over a teammate getting a start they wanted. Multiple times. Also show me where they have demanded trades because the "backup" got 2 playoff starts.

Also, discussions don't signify intent. When I want a new car, I check out the market. Have a look at the car lots. See what's out there that I want, and decide what to do with my old car. The process takes awhile. Just because I actually drive my car to a lot on a Saturday, and trade it in, doesn't mean I suddenly decided to get a new car on Saturday. Gillis didn't just wake up in the morning, look out the window and think, "It's a good day to dump Luongo". Everything he does is painstakingly planned, and most people actually get upset with him being too conservative and patient. No way this was a knee-jerk reaction.


I'm sorry, but you're arguing with Gillis' own comments now. And being that he's the one that DID THE DEAL, I don't see how you can convince people you're more right than him.

The facts I posted about Lack vs Luongo clear and documented.
The facts about the ice conditions and perceived risk of injury are Gillis' own statements
The start time, and the team's history of not starting Luongo in early games is also well documented. The belief is that the disruption is his daily routine increases the likelihood of injury.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Discuss opinions, not people. Posts that are taking personal shots will be removed and further action may follow. So please don't.

 

[Lindt]

And Lack wins another game with the team scoring under 3 goals. Matthias is looking decent too. With the increased cap room this deal is a huge win and a huge monkey off the team's back.

I wish all the best for Luongo and I'm glad he got the shutout in his first start, but the fact is he wasn't performing anything above average here and was an ongoing distraction.

 

[Lundface*]

I posted this in the GDT, makes more sense to be here.

Anyone that can take a step back and use a few brain cells can see why this problem even arose: Luongo was outplayed by the other players on the roster. It's that simple.

How is using a better option being mistreated? Henrik is playing like trash right now. He played 15 minutes last game, Kesler played 25. Is he being mistreated? Is it justified for him to go and request a trade? Think about what you're saying.

Every team "mistreats" every player on their team if this is the case. Players performing well earn the most time. If they prove to be the most productive in those minutes they deserve to play. Every once in a while you will get true cases of bad decisions by coaches, not using better options more.

This isn't even close to one of them. Instead of closing your eyes and regurgitating what you hear in the media think of the chain of events. Luongo was outplayed handily by Schneider. Van continued to use Luongo evidenced by his 55 games played to Schneiders 33. This despite the fact that Schneider had a .937 save percentage and 1.96 GAA compared to Luongo's .919 and 2.41. Those numbers aren't even close.

Despite this Luongo was rightfully started in LA. So far any mistreatment?

Luongo starts the first two games and Van loses both. Luongo's numbers? .891 % and 3.59 goals against. Hardly doing well, so guess what the team turned to Schneider. Is this mistreatment? Schneider loses his first game 1-0. They went back to him they won 3-1, and in game 5 he lost in OT 2-1. Schneider finished with a .960% and 1.31 GAA. This all behind the same team, against the exact same team.

Immediately after that post season he asks for a trade. How is that at all a normal reaction to that situation? He asked to be traded despite starting more games in the season.



The only hilarious thing is how people can be so blind to bash the organization for this fiasco and Luongo gets off free of any criticism.

Gillis trys to trade Luongo for any value, being handcuffed by the NTC since Luongo wants to go to Florida. It doesn't happen. Van was extremely high on Schneider and rightfully so and this whole fiasco ends with Van having to trade Cory.

This past season again he gets the majority of starts. His numbers again are worse than his backups, but this isn't really an issue since he is still more than doubling Lack's starts. Prior to the Olympic break he lets in 3,4,3,4,3,4 goals...Lack plays after and gets a shutout then loses in a 7th round shootout letting in only one goal. We don't even know if there was a deal being considered before the outdoor game, but either way it isn't some blasphemy going with the goalie playing better.

You can post your reasons for thinking he was "mistreated" in Vancouver. I personally think he had it pretty good with a massive contract, being named captain and basically getting the keys to the city. Much like on the ice the first sign of adversity and this guy crumbles. Boo hoo they started they better goalie in a playoff series...and they were right since he outplayed Luongo and gave the team a chance. Luongo puts himself first (which is fine, he wants to play) and the organization is **** on for supposedly "mistreating" him? What a joke. Please explain where this stems from because if your answer is bending over backwards to trade him to his desired destination and then eventually taking little to send him to his one location I'm truly lost.

 

[Soth]

Matthias was on the first unit PP and has played really well. A giant young powerforward on our hands. I am trying not to overreact to how good he has looked in his first two games... but it is hard not to latch on one of the few positive things this team has going right now.

 

[Addison Rae]

Fantastic post Lundface.

 

[opendoor]

The only poor treatment Luongo got from the Canucks was in the 09-11 period where he'd routinely get blamed for the team's failings and didn't get a ton of support from the coaching staff. Once his play dropped down a bit and he started getting outplayed by his backups every year I have no problem with how he was treated. If anything they took too long to make the switch.

It's funny how wrong the general perception of him can be. When he was clearly one of the best and most consistent goalies in the league in the 06-11 period people gave him flack, called him overrated, and blamed him for team meltdowns. They even took shots at his personality based on essentially nothing. Then his play dips, he gets outplayed by his backup, and he requests a trade but he becomes a sort of folk hero. Now that he's traded all of the sudden he's a franchise goalie again who has been horribly mistreated by the evil Canucks.

 

[Lindt]

I posted this in the GDT, makes more sense to be here.

Anyone that can take a step back and use a few brain cells can see why this problem even arose: Luongo was outplayed by the other players on the roster. It's that simple.

How is using a better option being mistreated? Henrik is playing like trash right now. He played 15 minutes last game, Kesler played 25. Is he being mistreated? Is it justified for him to go and request a trade? Think about what you're saying.

Every team "mistreats" every player on their team if this is the case. Players performing well earn the most time. If they prove to be the most productive in those minutes they deserve to play. Every once in a while you will get true cases of bad decisions by coaches, not using better options more.

This isn't even close to one of them. Instead of closing your eyes and regurgitating what you hear in the media think of the chain of events. Luongo was outplayed handily by Schneider. Van continued to use Luongo evidenced by his 55 games played to Schneiders 33. This despite the fact that Schneider had a .937 save percentage and 1.96 GAA compared to Luongo's .919 and 2.41. Those numbers aren't even close.

Despite this Luongo was rightfully started in LA. So far any mistreatment?

Luongo starts the first two games and Van loses both. Luongo's numbers? .891 % and 3.59 goals against. Hardly doing well, so guess what the team turned to Schneider. Is this mistreatment? Schneider loses his first game 1-0. They went back to him they won 3-1, and in game 5 he lost in OT 2-1. Schneider finished with a .960% and 1.31 GAA. This all behind the same team, against the exact same team.

Immediately after that post season he asks for a trade. How is that at all a normal reaction to that situation? He asked to be traded despite starting more games in the season.



The only hilarious thing is how people can be so blind to bash the organization for this fiasco and Luongo gets off free of any criticism.

Gillis trys to trade Luongo for any value, being handcuffed by the NTC since Luongo wants to go to Florida. It doesn't happen. Van was extremely high on Schneider and rightfully so and this whole fiasco ends with Van having to trade Cory.

This past season again he gets the majority of starts. His numbers again are worse than his backups, but this isn't really an issue since he is still more than doubling Lack's starts. Prior to the Olympic break he lets in 3,4,3,4,3,4 goals...Lack plays after and gets a shutout then loses in a 7th round shootout letting in only one goal. We don't even know if there was a deal being considered before the outdoor game, but either way it isn't some blasphemy going with the goalie playing better.

You can post your reasons for thinking he was "mistreated" in Vancouver. I personally think he had it pretty good with a massive contract, being named captain and basically getting the keys to the city. Much like on the ice the first sign of adversity and this guy crumbles. Boo hoo they started they better goalie in a playoff series...and they were right since he outplayed Luongo and gave the team a chance. Luongo puts himself first (which is fine, he wants to play) and the organization is **** on for supposedly "mistreating" him? What a joke. Please explain where this stems from because if your answer is bending over backwards to trade him to his desired destination and then eventually taking little to send him to his one location I'm truly lost.

Fantastic post. I'd love to see every point here addressed by those who are still complaining about what transpired.

 

[Lundface*]

The only poor treatment Luongo got from the Canucks was in the 09-11 period where he'd routinely get blamed for the team's failings and didn't get a ton of support from the coaching staff. Once his play dropped down a bit and he started getting outplayed by his backups every year I have no problem with how he was treated. If anything they took too long to make the switch.

It's funny how wrong the general perception of him can be. When he was clearly one of the best and most consistent goalies in the league in the 06-11 period people gave him flack, called him overrated, and blamed him for team meltdowns. They even took shots at his personality based on essentially nothing. Then his play dips, he gets outplayed by his backup, and he requests a trade but he becomes a sort of folk hero. Now that he's traded all of the sudden he's a franchise goalie again who has been horribly mistreated by the evil Canucks.

Yupp. 2006-2008 before his season end blow up, people said he was amazing and "the Canucks" sucked (he was new, wasn't seen as part of the old core...remember the team photo's photoshopped to be just him?).

2009-2012 he is a Canuck and became 7uongo. People now identified him as a Canuck and ripped on him for anything. The media begins a weird assualt on Van following the cup final and even the fans start to turn on Luongo.

2012 to now after publicly humiliating Van through social media and interviews, he's once again a saint. Now the media has spun it to seem like Vancouver treated him poorly (guess who started flinging **** at him). Luongo was a victim of the media and then convinced by the same media that he was wrongfully treated...he ate it up and fired shots back. The media seems to love it giving it tons of attention

The only sad part is the Vancouver fans of believed in the same anti-Canuck bs the media has been selling. Hard to blame any of us (I'm as guilty as the latter since I turned on him during his playoff blow ups....I don't blame Boston on him, but the Chicago meltdowns were on him more so than the team) but this Eastern media is crushing us.

 

[John Bender*]

Fantastic post. I'd love to see every point here addressed by those who are still complaining about what transpired.

I agree 100% with everything said.

Hilarious what a media darling Lu is now, after being public enemy #1 back in 2011.

 

[Tim McCracken]

There has been trade discussion with Florida since last year... they merely revisited it a couple days before the Heritage classic.

What are you insinuating...

Actually, I believe Tallon said he got the call Monday, after the heritage game. Gillis said the deal was in the works before the game, Tallon got the call Monday.

Regardless, under the circumstances, the Canucks got a useful 3rd liner and a higher end goalie project and it's better than what Toronto offered at the deadline last year.

 

[John Bender*]

Actually, I believe Tallon said he got the call Monday, after the heritage game. Gillis said the deal was in the works before the game, Tallon got the call Monday.

Regardless, under the circumstances, the Canucks got a useful 3rd liner and a higher end goalie project. That was better than what Toronto offered at the deadline last year.

In retrospect though, imo, they should have made the Lu deal to Toronto. I am higher on Cory Schneider than most I guess.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Actually, I believe Tallon said he got the call Monday, after the heritage game. Gillis said the deal was in the works before the game, Tallon got the call Monday.

Regardless, under the circumstances, the Canucks got a useful 3rd liner and a higher end goalie project and it's better than what Toronto offered at the deadline last year.

IIRC correctly Gillis said there was A deal in the works.

 

[Tim McCracken]

IIRC correctly Gillis said there was A deal in the works.

Come on now....

 

[Tim McCracken]

In retrospect though, imo, they should have made the Lu deal to Toronto. I am higher on Cory Schneider than most I guess.

Me too and that's what makes just getting a pick so disappointing.

 

[Crinny]

Lack is a rookie with 20ish games of NHL experience. Luongo is a seasoned veteran with tons of experience, is a proven elite goalie, and has the ability to mentor the young rookie. There also had been no trade discussions about Luongo until after Luongo was snubbed at the Heritage Classic.

Your so called elite goalie shutout the worst team in the NHL..and went back to let in 4 goals as usual against a better team...Please stop to refer him as an elite goalie..he never was and never will be. End of story.

 

[ddawg1950]

Interesting reading the post by Lundface that so accurately reflects the reality of what occurred...

And then the attempts by the good losers to continually re write history to advance a warped agenda.

Excellent job, Lundface.

Wierd moniker, though.

 

[Trelane]

It can't be denied that Lu was being outplayed by both backups and two different coaches went with guys they thought would give them better chance to win. Particularly relevant for Torts since his head is rumored to be on the chopping slab, so you know he's been feeling the pressure for some time, and playing favorites or giving pity starts for some past accomplishments is the last thing on his mind.

Don't mind the trade in the slightest. The optics are bad when combined with the Schneider trade but that should have nothing to do with present decisions and mercifully it didn't in this case. Lu's contract and Lack's upside make it pretty straightforward. I view it as going back to the Detroit model of not paying too much for a position of which there is surplus talent league wide.

 

[Lindt]

Your so called elite goalie shutout the worst team in the NHL..and went back to let in 4 goals as usual against a better team...Please stop to refer him as an elite goalie..he never was and never will be. End of story.

He certainly was around the time he got traded to the Canucks. But he's not anymore.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Come on now....

Gillis is a lawyer - you have to parse exactly what he says.

I speak fluent lawyerese.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Your so called elite goalie shutout the worst team in the NHL..and went back to let in 4 goals as usual against a better team...Please stop to refer him as an elite goalie..he never was and never will be. End of story.

That is untrue.

In his fourth season with the Panthers (2003–04), Luongo had his first Vezina Trophy and Lester B. Pearson Award nominations. In 72 games, he set NHL marks for most saves and shots faced in a single season with 2,303 and 2,475, respectively. His .931 save percentage was first among goalies with at least 50 starts. IMHO he should have won the Vezina.

In 2006-07 Luongo was nominated for three major NHL awards: the Vezina Trophy, Lester B. Pearson Award and Hart Memorial Trophy as the league MVP. However, Luongo finished second in voting for all three awards, behind Brodeur for the Vezina and Sidney Crosby of the Pittsburgh Penguins for the Hart and Pearson.

In 2010-11 Luongo won Presidents' Trophy in team history with an NHL-best and franchise-record 54 wins and 117 points. His efforts in the regular season earned him his third career Vezina Trophy nomination, alongside the Boston Bruins' Tim Thomas and the Nashville Predators' Pekka Rinne. He won the William M. Jennings Trophy for least goals allowed.

And he has two Olympic Gold Medals.

 

[Tim McCracken]

Gillis is a lawyer - you have to parse exactly what he says.

I speak fluent lawyerese.

Yes you do!

 

[WestleySnipez]

Your so called elite goalie shutout the worst team in the NHL..and went back to let in 4 goals as usual against a better team...Please stop to refer him as an elite goalie..he never was and never will be. End of story.

Loungo definitely was an elite goalie from 2004-2011. He has declined and is no longer a top 10 goaltender, but he's 14th in both Save Percentage and GAA out of goalies who have played more than 20 games this year, aka, Starting Goalies. If it hadn't been for his absurd contract, he'd have been a great addition to any team that had goaltending problems previously, like Florida has had this season.

A lot of players get to elite status and then fall off, it happens to some players, especially those after they turn 30.

 

[Crinny]

That is untrue.

In his fourth season with the Panthers (2003–04), Luongo had his first Vezina Trophy and Lester B. Pearson Award nominations. In 72 games, he set NHL marks for most saves and shots faced in a single season with 2,303 and 2,475, respectively. His .931 save percentage was first among goalies with at least 50 starts. IMHO he should have won the Vezina.

In 2006-07 Luongo was nominated for three major NHL awards: the Vezina Trophy, Lester B. Pearson Award and Hart Memorial Trophy as the league MVP. However, Luongo finished second in voting for all three awards, behind Brodeur for the Vezina and Sidney Crosby of the Pittsburgh Penguins for the Hart and Pearson.

In 2010-11 Luongo won Presidents' Trophy in team history with an NHL-best and franchise-record 54 wins and 117 points. His efforts in the regular season earned him his third career Vezina Trophy nomination, alongside the Boston Bruins' Tim Thomas and the Nashville Predators' Pekka Rinne. He won the William M. Jennings Trophy for least goals allowed.

And he has two Olympic Gold Medals.

True, but for me,and thats my personal view, elite goalies steals important games, specially in the playoffs and win rings. He does not and never will.
Second, those Olympic goldmedals doesnt mean a **** in the NHL. And I am pretty sure whoever Canada had put in as backup for that Austria game would have won that medal too.