Confirmed with Link: [VAN/FLA] Canucks acquire Juulsen, Lammikko for Olli Juolevi

[Breakers]

Him and Podz had some good defensive numbers from last night
didnt give up too much in limited ice time

 

[VanJack]

I actually like Lammikko's game last night.....Big guy who's a natural center and obviously has good wheels. Looks to me like just the kind of guy you need in your bottom six. And if his penalty-killing abilities come as advertised, then he's a solid 'add' in a depth role.

What baffles me though is that guys like Lammikko exist in every organization. Young guys in their mid-20's who are struck behind entrenched NHL players in their organizations, but just waiting for a chance.

Looking back, it's too bad they couldn't have found more guys like Lammikko and Burroughs, instead of going out and overpaying the likes of Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Sutter....etc....etc.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I actually like Lammikko's game last night.....Big guy who's a natural center and obviously has good wheels. Looks to me like just the kind of guy you need in your bottom six. And if his penalty-killing abilities come as advertised, then he's a solid 'add' in a depth role.

What baffles me though is that guys like Lammikko exist in every organization. Young guys in their mid-20's who are struck behind entrenched NHL players in their organizations, but just waiting for a chance.

Looking back, it's too bad they couldn't have found more guys like Lammikko and Burroughs, instead of going out and overpaying the likes of Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Sutter....etc....etc.

Beagle and Roussel were brought in as mentors, as there was a void of vet leadership...Schaller was useless..Sutter is fine as a 4C....but I do agree that we haven't developed some solid bottom 6 players..Gaudette didn't work, and Gadj and ZM were not really a fit.

 

[MS]

Beagle and Roussel were brought in as mentors, as there was a void of vet leadership...Schaller was useless..Sutter is fine as a 4C....but I do agree that we haven't developed some solid bottom 6 players..Gaudette didn't work, and Gadj and ZM were not really a fit.

As has been mentioned countless times, there were scads of 'veteran mentors' available for cheap who the team didn't have to pay a huge premium for because they were just on a Cup team.

 

[FlowMaster]

Beagle and Roussel were brought in as mentors, as there was a void of vet leadership...Schaller was useless..Sutter is fine as a 4C....but I do agree that we haven't developed some solid bottom 6 players..Gaudette didn't work, and Gadj and ZM were not really a fit.

Paying absurd cap hits for “mentor” qualities is so idiotic in a cap league. I hope we never have to hear this bullshit again, but we do still have Benning as GM

 

[MarkMM]

Beagle and Roussel were brought in as mentors, as there was a void of vet leadership...Schaller was useless..Sutter is fine as a 4C....but I do agree that we haven't developed some solid bottom 6 players..Gaudette didn't work, and Gadj and ZM were not really a fit.

Agree that was the thinking of bringing them on board.

And it was categorically stupid thinking at that price and term with NTC's to boot. Just stupid. And easily identifiable as such without needing the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Paying absurd cap hits for “mentor” qualities is so idiotic in a cap league. I hope we never have to hear this bullshit again, but we do still have Benning as GM

I'm not defending the signings..I'm just saying why they were signed.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Agree that was the thinking of bringing them on board.

And it was categorically stupid thinking at that price and term with NTC's to boot. Just stupid. And easily identifiable as such without needing the benefit of hindsight.

My comments on the signing was that the term was too long..and they did land Benning and the team in hot water.

 

[F A N]

I actually like Lammikko's game last night.....Big guy who's a natural center and obviously has good wheels. Looks to me like just the kind of guy you need in your bottom six. And if his penalty-killing abilities come as advertised, then he's a solid 'add' in a depth role.

What baffles me though is that guys like Lammikko exist in every organization. Young guys in their mid-20's who are struck behind entrenched NHL players in their organizations, but just waiting for a chance.

Looking back, it's too bad they couldn't have found more guys like Lammikko and Burroughs, instead of going out and overpaying the likes of Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Sutter....etc....etc.

Agreed. You wonder how many of these players would have benefited from better player development or were these players destined for fringe careers.

A lot of it does come down to drafting. Lammikko was a former 3rd round pick that Florida hung onto and hoping that he would reach his potential. Some players do take longer. Lockwood is still very much a prospect and he's 23. I would be thrilled if we get 2-3 solid years out of Lammikko.

 

[FlowMaster]

Agreed. You wonder how many of these players would have benefited from better player development or were these players destined for fringe careers.

A lot of it does come down to drafting. Lammikko was a former 3rd round pick that Florida hung onto and hoping that he would reach his potential. Some players do take longer. Lockwood is still very much a prospect and he's 23. I would be thrilled if we get 2-3 solid years out of Lammikko.

There’s so many players like this. The NHL is still a dinosaur league where they choose Chiasson over Gadjovic. I wonder how Gadj would have done last night in front of the net.

Teams fail players all the time.

 

[MarkMM]

There’s so many players like this. The NHL is still a dinosaur league where they choose Chiasson over Gadjovic. I wonder how Gadj would have done last night in front of the net.

Teams fail players all the time.

I remember that was a big thing that Gillis talked about regarding his philosophy of managing a team. He felt his career as a player had been cut short because he wasn't supported properly by the team; at the time it was normal but as he grew older and became an agent and saw the same things happening to his clients he believed that there are a lot of wasted opportunities with talent that goes undeveloped, and he wanted to build a hockey club that revolved around extracting every bit of potential out of a player, especially young players who didn't know what they were capable of or how to get it.

Hence his things like sleep doctors and nutritionists, some of it may get giggled at but the thinking was sound, every incremental improvement even down to matching flight schedules to players' energy levels was meant to eke out an extra 1-2% of improvement, and added up over a whole team and a whole year could be the difference. I remember even the analysis of where Kesler excelled on the ice and changing deployment like that, or fighting the league on game scheduling to optimize for the Canucks travel schedule, those things matter. I do respect the lengths he went (studied everything from NFL teams to race car pit crews and military units, etc) to find things he could apply.

Someone like Gadjovic or Lammikko strikes me as opportunities of raw potential, and the difference between them becoming journeymen depth players or power forwards comes down to two things, motivation on the players' side and investment/patience on the team's side.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

There’s so many players like this. The NHL is still a dinosaur league where they choose Chiasson over Gadjovic. I wonder how Gadj would have done last night in front of the net.

Teams fail players all the time.

Gad plays dinosaur hockey tho

 

[Bankerguy]

I actually like Lammikko's game last night.....Big guy who's a natural center and obviously has good wheels. Looks to me like just the kind of guy you need in your bottom six. And if his penalty-killing abilities come as advertised, then he's a solid 'add' in a depth role.

What baffles me though is that guys like Lammikko exist in every organization. Young guys in their mid-20's who are struck behind entrenched NHL players in their organizations, but just waiting for a chance.

Looking back, it's too bad they couldn't have found more guys like Lammikko and Burroughs, instead of going out and overpaying the likes of Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Sutter....etc....etc.

Agreed 100%. It's baffling

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I actually like Lammikko's game last night.....Big guy who's a natural center and obviously has good wheels. Looks to me like just the kind of guy you need in your bottom six. And if his penalty-killing abilities come as advertised, then he's a solid 'add' in a depth role.

What baffles me though is that guys like Lammikko exist in every organization. Young guys in their mid-20's who are struck behind entrenched NHL players in their organizations, but just waiting for a chance.

Looking back, it's too bad they couldn't have found more guys like Lammikko and Burroughs, instead of going out and overpaying the likes of Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Sutter....etc....etc.

That's what they thought they were doing with Vey, Granlund, Pouliot, Pedan, etc etc etc. We've spent the last seven plus years watching this theory fail before our eyes.

There really aren't lots of good young players stuck behind entrenched vets, because smart teams tend to play the best players they have instead of trotting out vets due to seniority or popularity in the dressing room or having played for the coach in junior.

 

[F A N]

I remember that was a big thing that Gillis talked about regarding his philosophy of managing a team. He felt his career as a player had been cut short because he wasn't supported properly by the team; at the time it was normal but as he grew older and became an agent and saw the same things happening to his clients he believed that there are a lot of wasted opportunities with talent that goes undeveloped, and he wanted to build a hockey club that revolved around extracting every bit of potential out of a player, especially young players who didn't know what they were capable of or how to get it.

Hence his things like sleep doctors and nutritionists, some of it may get giggled at but the thinking was sound, every incremental improvement even down to matching flight schedules to players' energy levels was meant to eke out an extra 1-2% of improvement, and added up over a whole team and a whole year could be the difference. I remember even the analysis of where Kesler excelled on the ice and changing deployment like that, or fighting the league on game scheduling to optimize for the Canucks travel schedule, those things matter. I do respect the lengths he went (studied everything from NFL teams to race car pit crews and military units, etc) to find things he could apply.

Someone like Gadjovic or Lammikko strikes me as opportunities of raw potential, and the difference between them becoming journeymen depth players or power forwards comes down to two things, motivation on the players' side and investment/patience on the team's side.

The stuff you said about Gillis is fine in theory but in practice not so much. The strong belief in the player development process is what led to us drafting Mallet. 9 out of 10 nature trumps nuture by the time a player is drafted. Gillis always made the process sound very good. Gillis was of course super interested in sports science. His recent interviews suggest that he's more interested in that aspect than building a Stanley Cup winning team. The reality is that the veterans gave the sleep trackers to the rookies when they went out for beers while the Sedins went into the mind room once to hear themselves scoring goals. Was it really giving the team an edge or the boss sharing his passion with his players who treated it like snake oil? I'm not saying having more knowledge and information at your disposal can't be helpful. I'm sure someone like McKinnon would soak it up. Try to maximize his REM sleep kind of thing. But for others, are they really turning off their electronic device like an hour before bed or are they videochatting their wife and kids for that extra minute etc.?

Take the team's waiver wire pickups. Wellwood was picked up, basically called him Wellfat in an attempt to motivate him, and placed in a top 6 role (great). But he was quickly demoted and in the dog house as soon as he struggled. But Wellwood got into the best shape of his life and morphed himself into a gritty shutdown 3rd line C. Was that player development? I don't think it was. I'm not convinced that what the Canucks were trying to do was develop him into a shutdown 3rd line C. I highly doubt anyone saw Wellwood and thought to themselves that he could be that type of player. That's like the Leafs trying to develop Petan into a 4th line C. Weise was a waiver wire pickup that was kept on the team but never found a consistent role with the team. He was dumped when Torts came on board. He goes to Montreal and plays the way many of us thought he could.

Then you have players like Grabner who didn't get a shot. 30 goal AHL season and didn't get a game. Hodgson was painted as essentially an entitled trust fund boy who ran into his first hardship in life by AV and management didn't back him up. People here still use Hodgson as an example of the Canucks building him up an asset to be traded when in reality it was closer to the team not giving Hodgson a chance. Connauton also never got a shot. All in the name of the team trying to win the Cup of course. But Tampa was trying to and did win the Cup too and they are praised here for their asset management.

The team got a good schedule once. You bitch about things enough and the league throws you a bone to shut you up. Things went back to the things they were. As for Kesler, do you remember him carrying the puck a lot in Gillis' last season here? I did. It also didn't take analytics to tell us that he needed wingers who played well with him. And putting him on the 1st unit PP is hardly a novel idea. Teams were loading up their 1st unit PP before and he did happen to be one of our best forwards as well as one of our bigger forwards.

Don't get me wrong. I loved the Gillis era and how he seemingly left no stones unturned. But I feel that he believed in their ability to develop players and prolong players' career too much. Let's not forget that we tried to sign a 36 year old Shane Doan and acquiring and signing Ryan Clowe. Now Doan was a machine but you get the point.

 

[VanJack]

According to Cap Friendly, Oli Juolevi is listed as a 'non-roster' player with the Florida Panthers. No idea what this actually means, unless he's just taking a long time to get to Florida.

 

[Nucker101]

According to Cap Friendly, Oli Juolevi is listed as a 'non-roster' player with the Florida Panthers. No idea what this actually means, unless he's just taking a long time to get to Florida.

Immigration stuff maybe? Gadjovich joined the Sharks late as well.

 

[VanJack]

Immigration stuff maybe? Gadjovich joined the Sharks late as well.

It's confirmed. MacEwen won't be in the Flyers lineup tonight with Visa problems. As assume Juolevi is in limbo as well. Apparently all the paperwork is taking a lot longer these days.

 

[Hit the post]

Immigration stuff maybe? Gadjovich joined the Sharks late as well.

Joulevi was fully vaccinated. Florida has this thing about that. .

 

[Kaptah2]

I believe Lammikko will soon become a fan favourite in Vancouver. Liked his play in Florida a lot, but guess they have ridiculous center depth.

 

[VanJack]

I believe Lammikko will soon became a fan favourite in Vancouver. Liked his play in Florida a lot, but guess they have ridiculous center depth.

Second solid outing for Lammikko. Looks very serviceable on the PK and seems to have some ability in the faceoff dot. Big, physical forward who skates well and makes the safe play most of the time.

It's only an early look.....but looks like he might have been worth even a one-for-one deal for Juolevi. Getting Juulsen for Abbostsford is just a bonus.

 

[alternate]

Had a very bad 1st period vs PHI but which skater didn't? Settled down with the team and did a good job staying on the right side of the puck after that. Early, but looking like he's a nice upgrade to our 4th line.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Yeah, I've liked him thus far. Much happier to see him than a wheezing, hunched over and exhausted Sutter every 4th line shift.

 

[Grub]

These new fourth liner is a lot better then the running around likes of Sutter, Beagle

 

[Pip]

Seems fine enough and is cheap so good in my books