Confirmed with Link: [VAN/FLA] Canucks acquire Erik Gudbranson, 2016 5th ~ PT 3

[CanaFan]

Baertschi, sutter, McCann, virtanen, pedan, Dorsett (not skilled but fast) even granlund could be considered a skill guy. Pretty much all his draft picks can skate hell even Mac stew is fast. Fast skilled guys don't exactly grow on trees.

Baertschi yes
Virtanen yes

Sutter no (guy is a 30 pt bottom 6 guy)
McCann just got traded for a plodding defenseman
Pedan no (skates ok, skill is below average)
Granlund no (slow, average skill)
Dorsett WTF??? Dorsett is def not what Pittsburgh just won the cup with.


Sad if you think that list speaks to "speed and skill". You might want to set the bar just a tad higher.

 

[Hit the post]

Dorsett WTF??? Dorsett is def not what Pittsburgh just won the cup with.

Heh, we traded the slow Bonino for the speedy Sutter.

 

[CanaFan]

And true that speed and skill don't grow on trees. That's the exact reason so many were upset that Shinkaruk and McCann were tossed away before they could develop into exactly that type of doesn't-grow-on-trees player.

 

[geebaan]

And true that speed and skill don't grow on trees. That's the exact reason so many were upset that Shinkaruk and McCann were tossed away before they could develop into exactly that type of doesn't-grow-on-trees player.

Yea, for names listed, I rest my case. Like you said, those 2 players were cast aside who could BE skilled and fast. If Gudbranson is the type of player we are getting from now on, I hope we get a time machine to go with our 80's team.

 

[coldsteel79]

Yea, for names listed, I rest my case. Like you said, those 2 players were cast aside who could BE skilled and fast. If Gudbranson is the type of player we are getting from now on, I hope we get a time machine to go with our 80's team.

Well don't cheer for him then, be sure to make your decision before he plays one game

 

[CanaFan]

Well don't cheer for him then, be sure to make your decision before he plays one game

You asserted Benning was not "not going after" speedy, skilled guys. A reasonable review of his past transactions shows this is absolutely the case (that he is *not* going after these types of players). That has nothing to do with cheering or not cheering for Gudbranson, but merely asking some posters to be honest with assessing the kind of team Benning is building rather than trying to spin everything to fit the best possible light. The reality is Benning has prioritized physicality, "character", and defensive prowess in early every one of his transactions. Speed has been hit and miss while skill has almost never been an apparent trait in any player he has acquired. Once again only Baertschi and Vrbata fit these parameters. The only way you can possibly say different is to stretch these definitions to ridiculous levels by trying to include Dorsett and Sutter as "skill" players.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Well don't cheer for him then, be sure to make your decision before he plays one game

I know you meant to say "one game for the Canucks", but Gudbranson is a known entity around the league. He's played over 250 games already. Do you think he will be radically different than what he has been to date?

 

[Verviticus]

I don't understand why it has to be so absolute all the time. You need all types of players to win. Physical, defensive, and skillful. It's not 1 thing. People look at the latest cup winner and use that as the new template. But as we all know, the cup winners change every year.

Gudbranson is a piece of the puzzle. We're adding someone who doesn't have his skillset on the blueline. That makes him valuable.

im really good at being sarcastic. can I be a piece of the puzzle too?

 

[coldsteel79]

I know you meant to say "one game for the Canucks", but Gudbranson is a known entity around the league. He's played over 250 games already. Do you think he will be radically different than what he has been to date?

Different system, different partner, yeah I think we can expect some differences. Hopefully for the better

 

[ahmon]

You asserted Benning was not "not going after" speedy, skilled guys. A reasonable review of his past transactions shows this is absolutely the case (that he is *not* going after these types of players). That has nothing to do with cheering or not cheering for Gudbranson, but merely asking some posters to be honest with assessing the kind of team Benning is building rather than trying to spin everything to fit the best possible light. The reality is Benning has prioritized physicality, "character", and defensive prowess in early every one of his transactions. Speed has been hit and miss while skill has almost never been an apparent trait in any player he has acquired. Once again only Baertschi and Vrbata fit these parameters. The only way you can possibly say different is to stretch these definitions to ridiculous levels by trying to include Dorsett and Sutter as "skill" players.

I don't know about this narrative that Benning doesn't like to acquire players with skill.

Like you said Baertschi, Vrbata and Vey. Vey is like the last player I think about when I think about physicality and defensive prowess.

That's 3 guys he's brought in hoping to play in the top 6.

Vrbata did perform well for a while but has fallen off, Baertschi is still a question mark. And Vey looks like a lost gamble. But the intention was clear that he was looking for these players to play with skill.

If you look at the way Benning drafts, its also a mixed bag.

Brock Boeser is skilled. Zhukenov, Jasek are both more or less undersized players with more skill than your typical late rounders.

McCann was more skill than physicality/defensive prowess. etc.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

I know you meant to say "one game for the Canucks", but Gudbranson is a known entity around the league. He's played over 250 games already. Do you think he will be radically different than what he has been to date?

Considering he made massive strides last season yeah I think he can continue to trend upwards

 

[Canucker]

Considering he made massive strides last season yeah I think he can continue to trend upwards

Sure, he made massive strides towards becoming an NHL defenseman that wasn't a complete liability. He still has no offensive game to speak of and isn't going to start now.

 

[GreetingsFromCanada]

Sure, he made massive strides towards becoming an NHL defenseman that wasn't a complete liability. He still has no offensive game to speak of and isn't going to start now.

I was reading somewhere people peak physically from 23-27. Gudbranson is 24, so I doubt he's going to get much better when he has so much experience and is in the peak of career.

 

[Verviticus]

Different system, different partner, yeah I think we can expect some differences. Hopefully for the better

this seems like a hopelessly optimistic position

 

[Canucker]

I was reading somewhere people peak physically from 23-27. Gudbranson is 24, so I doubt he's going to get much better when he has so much experience and is in the peak of career.

I agree...what you see is what you get...he's a decent, middle pairing, one dimensional defenseman who has some jam, and thats where the story ends.

 

[GreetingsFromCanada]

Just to put out there, Gudbranson had a 51% corsi with Brian Campbell, a very strong possession player. He had a corsi in the 45% range with everyone else.

 

[DL44]

I was reading somewhere people peak physically from 23-27. Gudbranson is 24, so I doubt he's going to get much better when he has so much experience and is in the peak of career.

A 24 yr old Dman is in the peak of his career?

You haven't been paying enough attention.

 

[GreetingsFromCanada]

A 24 yr old Dman is in the peak of his career?

You haven't been paying enough attention.

Physical Peak

 

[DL44]

Physical Peak

Oh, so when you said that you "doubt he's going get much better", you meant physically better?

 

[CanaFan]

I don't know about this narrative that Benning doesn't like to acquire players with skill.

Like you said Baertschi, Vrbata and Vey. Vey is like the last player I think about when I think about physicality and defensive prowess.

That's 3 guys he's brought in hoping to play in the top 6.

Vrbata did perform well for a while but has fallen off, Baertschi is still a question mark. And Vey looks like a lost gamble. But the intention was clear that he was looking for these players to play with skill.

If you look at the way Benning drafts, its also a mixed bag.

Brock Boeser is skilled. Zhukenov, Jasek are both more or less undersized players with more skill than your typical late rounders.

McCann was more skill than physicality/defensive prowess. etc.

Vey has very pedestrian skill. Just because he's slow, soft, and weak doesn't make him skilled by default.

McCann was drafted with skill. Traded him away.

Forsling was drafted with skill. Traded him away.

Shinkaruk had skill. Traded him away.

Bonino had skill (not speed though). Traded him away.

Look at his other acquisitions. Dorsett, Prust, Sutter, Granlund, Gudbranson, Sbisa, Pedan. There is a notable dearth of skill in that group.

It is what it is. You can argue he's prioritizing character, or depth, or defensive prowess or whatever you want but you are flat out being dishonest if you characterize the majority of Benning's acquisitions as being focussed on speed and skill. It's just not there.

 

[GreetingsFromCanada]

Oh, so when you said that you "doubt he's going get much better", you meant physically better?

Absolutely not, I think if you haven't grown much as a player in 6 years you won't suddenly now. 22-24 tend to be prove it years for prospects, if they don't turn a corner now they never will. He's still a 3rd pairing D-man on most teams, the same position as 3 years ago.

 

[coldsteel79]

Vey has very pedestrian skill. Just because he's slow, soft, and weak doesn't make him skilled by default.

McCann was drafted with skill. Traded him away.

Forsling was drafted with skill. Traded him away.

Shinkaruk had skill. Traded him away.

Bonino had skill (not speed though). Traded him away.

Look at his other acquisitions. Dorsett, Prust, Sutter, Granlund, Gudbranson, Sbisa, Pedan. There is a notable dearth of skill in that group.

It is what it is. You can argue he's prioritizing character, or depth, or defensive prowess or whatever you want but you are flat out being dishonest if you characterize the majority of Benning's acquisitions as being focussed on speed and skill. It's just not there.

He's drafting it though

 

[Canucker]

I remember hearing about how a young 24 year old Luca Sbisa still had a ton of room to improve and be a top 4 defenseman...hearing how he could still develop his offensive game...I remember those days like it was 2 years ago.

 

[GreetingsFromCanada]

He's drafting it though

I'm pretty sure those picks were from the old head of scouting

 

[CanaFan]

He's drafting it though

Who isn't?

Like name a team that intentionally drafts bottom 6 forwards and defensemen in the 1st round?

Ya we drafted Boeser. And Philly drafted Konecny right after. And Winnipeg drafted Roslovic, NYI drafted Beauvillier, etc. All teams draft "skill" in the first round, it is the exception when teams aim to draft Dorsett's and Prust's in the first round.

So sure, he's drafting skill and that is good. He should be. But that doesn't change the fact that nearly every other move has been in the opposite direction. Someone should let Benning in on the secret that you can actually do both at the same time. Then I might be able to agree that he is trying to build a team with speed and skill.