[VAN/CGY] Hunter Shinkaruk for Markus Granlund - Part II

[Tiranis]

WOW that actually blows my mind if true. How does one get talked in to trading for Granlund when looking for a defenceman.
I really needed a truck but this smart car is so appealing...

Because clearly Shinkaruk was losing value while on his way to a 30 goal season and being the best under 21 scorer in the AHL.

 

[TruGr1t]

vey, clendenning, granlund, sbisa, barktowski, ect...

for a hyped scouter, benning's pro scouting has been an unmitigated disaster

Benning is an amateur scout. Weisbrod is our pro guy.

 

[NuxFan09]

While I don't like the trade and think they have given up the greater upside of Shinkaruk, I think some perspective is needed:

Shinkaruk in the year he turned 20:
16g 15a in 74 games with AHL Utica

Granlund in the year he turned 20:
25g 21a in 52 games with AHL Adirondack

Granlund born in April, Shinkaruk in October.

Is that the extent of your perspective? What about the fact that Granlund has been given ample time in the NHL and has shown very limited upside, while Shinkaruk has been given a grand total of 1 game with less than 10 minutes played?

What about the fact that Shinkaruk's rookie year took place after less than half a season in junior the year before, while Granlund was coming from the pros in Finland?

What about Granlund's 2nd season in the AHL? 9 goals, 8 assists, 17 points in 21 games. Shinkaruk? 21 goals, 18 assists, 39 points in 45 games.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

I saw something about a jb interview. Anywhere I can watch? Thanks!

 

[geebaan]

Benning is an amateur scout. Weisbrod is our pro guy.

Wow, may as well have Milbury if thats the case.

 

[topched88]

Reaction of this trade is overblown, but death by a thousand cuts will do that to you. Im sure we would have a longer leash if we got thrown a bone once in a while.

It hurts more because shink was a really exciting prospect to cheer for.

 

[bbud]

Horvat for Drouin. Its gonna happen

Horvat has already been targeted by TB and Benning said no .

 

[NucksRuleYep]

Horvat has already been targeted by TB and Benning said no .

That was a month ago. Things change.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

WOW that actually blows my mind if true. How does one get talked in to trading for Granlund when looking for a defenceman.
I really needed a truck but this smart car is so appealing...

This is actually such a good comparison!

 

[SvenBaertschi]

I saw something about a jb interview. Anywhere I can watch? Thanks!

https://twitter.com/VanCanucks/status/701918370996703237

I hope thats the one you were thinking of.

 

[chis]

I was like Granlund, really? He finally did it! Then I'm like, noo, wait, isn't he playing for the wilds? Why does it say CGY? Oh cmon, you did not.

Nonsense trade

 

[Horse McHindu]

Horvat for Drouin. Its gonna happen

It's not going to be Horvat. I can guarantee that much.

It's going to be McCann+ in my opinion.

That is of course, if we're even talking to Tampa but based on the events of today, I suspect something is up.

 

[Nomobo]

Man, I'm going to miss reading a lot of you guys now that you're leaving the Canuck fold. May you find happiness with the Oilers or someone else.

 

[yoss]

What in the **** is Benning doing? Just what we need! More 3rd/4th line grinders!!

Both feet firmly planted on the fire benning bandwagon at this point.

I give up. After how well Shink was doing? 1 of the prospects I was most excited about.

**** you.

 

[banme*]

Glass-half-full: management didn't think much of Shinkaruk and couldn't get a defenseman they coveted so went for something else.

Glass-half-empty: we're buying trying to make the playoffs.

Neither of these amuse me, one of them makes me want to puke.

 

[WhoseLainesItAnyway]

pretty tired seeing after every single indefensible move that benning makes, whether it be via contract or trade, that the defence made is that it's an inconsequential move that doesn't really matter

regardless of the fact it's a terrible argument for anything, the idea that a series of illogical moves will not lead to more illogical moves in the future is mental

doesn't matter what shinkaruk will / won't do in the future...he had value NOW, and it was wasted by trading him for a low upside forward in granlund who is already redundant within the organization

same defence was made after the kesler trade, sbisa/dorsett extensions, lack trade, ect...it's death by a thousand cuts except that this one hurts more

How do you know what Shinkaruk's value is? How many GM's have you spoken to? Granlund turning into a 2C is a low upside? What do you think we could've realistically gotten for Shinkaruk?

Death by a thousand cuts? Ha Ha Ha HF is always good for a laugh. And always the same blowing out of proportion every "bad" move, same omission of anything good Benning does, same hyperbole, so so boring. I don't have anymore time to argue how Benning's the worst GM ever because of X role player he brought in or Y meh player he traded away or how he didn't get enough back in a trade because I could've done better in NHL 16.

 

[iceburg]

Granlund was drafted 5 years ago and has flatlined. That's why people don't think much of him. If Shinkaruk plateaus over the next 2 years and is coming up on waiver eligibility in 2018 without establishing himself as an NHLer he won't be worth much either, but that hasn't happened yet.

As I've said in a previous post....they have given up the upside of Shinkaruk to lock in his downside now - which is why I don't like the trade. Still, Granlund isn't chopped liver.

 

[Love]

Continue...

Or cry, that's what I am going to do...

That said I'm not going to hate on Granlund. Think he can be a good player for us in the future. *Crosses fingers*.

Dude... Are you Baby Shinkaruk??

Im sad about the name change. Also on the drive home today I was thinking that Benning will probably end up trading Subban before he ever plays a game for our team, kind of ironic. Hope Im wrong but who the **** knows with Jimbo at the helm!

 

[CpatainCanuck]

I don't know enough about Hunter Shinkaruk or Markus Granlund to evaluate this trade. Shinkaruk only played the one rather lacklustre game in Vancouver, so we cannot compare their play in the nhl, but their statistics in the ahl are not that dissimilar.

Granlund
2013/14 (Age 20) 52gp 25g 21a 46p 0.885ppg
2014/15 (Age 21) 21gp 9g 8a 17p 0.810ppg
2015/16 (Age 22) 12gp 5g 4a 9p 0.750ppg
Total: 85gp 39g 33a 72p 0.847ppg


Shinkaruk
2014/15 (Age 20) 74gp 16g 15a 31p 0.419ppg
2015/16 (Age 21) 45gp 21g 18a 39p 0.867ppg
Total: 119gp 35g 33a 70p 0.588ppg

Granlund had 2 more points in 85 games in the ahl than Shinkaruk has in 119. In Granlund's one full year in the AHL at age 20 he had better stats than Shinkaruk does this, his best ever year. Is Shinkaruk really more likely than Granlund to be able to translate his abilities to the ahl?

 

[Tiranis]

Still, Granlund isn't chopped liver.

Pretty much is. There's exactly 0 value to players of his calibre. We gave up one in Santorelli and a better one in Richardson.

In Granlund's one full year in the AHL at age 20 he had better stats than Shinkaruk does this year. Is Shinkaruk really more likely than Granlund to be able to translate his abilities to the ahl?

They're prospects. Granlund looked great at age 20. Then he spent another 2 years and now he doesn't look so great due to not being able to translate his game. Then you have to consider the fact that Granlund has to go on waivers next year if he's not good enough whereas Shinkaruk had 2 more years.

Sure Shinkaruk might also bust. Just like lots of players in his position do. But good teams get value on those players (LA, Chicago, etc.), not trade them for another middling player with almost no upside.

 

[NuxFan09]

How do you know what Shinkaruk's value is? How many GM's have you spoken to? Granlund turning into a 2C is a low upside? What do you think we could've realistically gotten for Shinkaruk?

Death by a thousand cuts? Ha Ha Ha HF is always good for a laugh. And always the same blowing out of proportion every "bad" move, same omission of anything good Benning does, same hyperbole, so so boring. I don't have anymore time to argue how Benning's the worst GM ever because of X role player he brought in or Y meh player he traded away or how he didn't get enough back in a trade because I could've done better in NHL 16.

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly. Do you really not see a problem with this move?

 

[SvenBaertschi]

This is actually such a good comparison!

Thank you for the praise

On another note... apparently Weisbrod does have some pull...

Benning was honest on Monday about how Weisbrod’s character references influenced the club’s decision to deal for both Baertschi and Granlund.

"I relied on John as we were going through this process on Markus to hear about the intangibles on the player and he speaks very highly of him and really likes him as a person and a kid,” Benning said. “And we liked the way he plays on the ice. So (Weisbrod) was a big reason why we went through and made this deal."

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=870087

 

[iceburg]

Haven't read the whole thread, to be honest I would probably have a mini melt down if I did.

But, this trade has more to do with top six winger depth in the organization....
I suspect they want Virtanen, Boeser, Rodin, and Baertschi to be given every opportunity to grow into top 6 winger positions. Shinkaruk falls behind all of these four on the prospect winger depth chart....
You might ask why they would then bring in Granlund behind Sedin, Sutter, Horvat, McCann, and Gaunce (he is showing he's better at centre). I have no answer...

 

[canucksfan]

I don't know enough about Hunter Shinkaruk or Markus Granlund to evaluate this trade. Shinkaruk only played the one rather lacklustre game in Vancouver, so we cannot compare their play in the nhl, but their statistics in the ahl are not that dissimilar.

Granlund
2013/14 (Age 20) 52gp 25g 21a 46p 0.885ppg
2014/15 (Age 21) 21gp 9g 8a 17p 0.810ppg
2015/16 (Age 22) 12gp 5g 4a 9p 0.750ppg
Total: 85gp 39g 33a 72p 0.847ppg


Shinkaruk
2014/15 (Age 20) 74gp 16g 15a 31p 0.419ppg
2015/16 (Age 21) 45gp 21g 18a 39p 0.867ppg
Total: 119gp 35g 33a 70p 0.588ppg

Granlund had 2 more points in 85 games in the ahl than Shinkaruk has in 119. In Granlund's one full year in the AHL at age 20 he had better stats than Shinkaruk does this, his best ever year. Is Shinkaruk really more likely than Granlund to be able to translate his abilities to the ahl?

Have to remember Granlund came from a pro league before the AHL. He hasn't shown much improvement since his first year in the AHL. Shinkaruk has shown improvement. Granlund's development has been stagnant whereas Hunter's has improved.

 

[Intangibos]

I don't know enough about Hunter Shinkaruk or Markus Granlund to evaluate this trade. Shinkaruk only played the one rather lacklustre game in Vancouver, so we cannot compare their play in the nhl, but their statistics in the ahl are not that dissimilar.

Granlund
2013/14 (Age 20) 52gp 25g 21a 46p 0.885ppg
2014/15 (Age 21) 21gp 9g 8a 17p 0.810ppg
2015/16 (Age 22) 12gp 5g 4a 9p 0.750ppg
Total: 85gp 39g 33a 72p 0.847ppg


Shinkaruk
2014/15 (Age 20) 74gp 16g 15a 31p 0.419ppg
2015/16 (Age 21) 45gp 21g 18a 39p 0.867ppg
Total: 119gp 35g 33a 70p 0.588ppg

Granlund had 2 more points in 85 games in the ahl than Shinkaruk has in 119. In Granlund's one full year in the AHL at age 20 he had better stats than Shinkaruk does this, his best ever year. Is Shinkaruk really more likely than Granlund to be able to translate his abilities to the ahl?

Why don't you add superstar Schroeder and Vey's stats as well?

Shinkaruk has 2 more years of development before waiver eligibility. Unless you think Shinkaruk will not improve at all in that time for some reason, and will stall like Granlund, this trade makes no sense. Even if Shinkaruk doesn't improve at all, it's a questionable trade.

Everyone who gets drafted into the NHL has some skill. The question is if they will continue to improve and translate their game into the NHL. Granlund has done neither, while Shinkaruk still has 2 years to try to do so. That's why this trade is awful.