Value of: Value 5th overall pick??

[bernmeister]

Last year. Sure. This year. No.

Guhle simply didn’t play very well or make any progress on his prior season while LaF made huge gains.

So it’s not currently accurate to say Guhle > LaF unless you get in a Time Machine.

reinbacher had a very disappointing post draft season. He needs to rebuild his value before he’s mentioned in trade threads.

I did not want to come back with this b'c it would only have been throwing gas on a fire if I did it.

Thank you for speaking the truth, and productive add to the discussion.

Fact is all 3 core pieces -- LaF, Guhle, rein -- are/project to be high quality.

The ? is how to measure both current actual value AND what may be projected from this.

 

[bud12]

Others also being Canadian is not a factor; you are implying I suggest that ALONE is core to their value/worth/team interest.

LaF already = superior player with elite status likely around the corner 1-2 yrs, barring injury.
That ^ does not apply to most other NHLers of Canadian heritage.


I will keep it up.
And your quote above does nothing to refute my pts.

You want me to refute what? Laf is a 57pts player who played with Panarin. You act like he is a 100pts+. No one will give you that kind of value for him.

 

[Baksfamous112]

It feels like, more than just "A Forward"...the Habs really need a #1 Center. Or at least a #1a/b to platoon with Suzuki.

Those types of players are just not really available while young and under team control, unless there are some serious red flags, extenuating circumstances, or they're stuck as more "potential" than "performance".

Zegras is probably the closest thing to that potentially out there. And if he's available...there are reasons for it, as per above.


Which is where...if you're the Habs, i think you really just have to stay put and grab a guy in the draft. Even if you get crucified for "overdrafting"...the draft remains the only place to really acquire what Montreal needs most. So you've gotta try. You've gotta take swings. Even if that means someone like Catton or Lindstrom at 5.

I know it looks like a long shot for non Habs fans because you don’t get to watch the team or players as often as we do but Dach is that guy. He’s been out for a full year so I can understand why people would tend to forget about him but the few games he played last year he was our most dangerous forward offensively. More than Suzuki

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Others also being Canadian is not a factor; you are implying I suggest that ALONE is core to their value/worth/team interest.

LaF already = superior player with elite status likely around the corner 1-2 yrs, barring injury.
That ^ does not apply to most other NHLers of Canadian heritage.


I will keep it up.
And your quote above does nothing to refute my pts.

Get ‘em bern

 

[Baksfamous112]

Last year. Sure. This year. No.

Guhle simply didn’t play very well or make any progress on his prior season while LaF made huge gains.

So it’s not currently accurate to say Guhle > LaF unless you get in a Time Machine.

reinbacher had a very disappointing post draft season. He needs to rebuild his value before he’s mentioned in trade threads.

Last year Guhle was sheltered most of the season. This year he was asked to shut down the elite.. at 21 years old. There’s a learning curve here for that kind of responsibility and considering the task, he’s done a pretty good job. He’ll get there sooner than later.

Reinbacher had a disappointing post draft season in Europe but was quite impressive in Laval. He was a step ahead (already) of Mailloux & Barron and he looked great in the AHL. Dare I say he’s got a good chance to make the team next year and is most likely NHL ready already - in a limited/sheltered role

 

[CanadienShark]

I wouldn't and for the record did NOT say that.
Howev
if someone, anyone, fails to push the envelope and consider all factors extensively as I try to do, they will reap what they sow.

I make mistakes, plenty.
But my track record is usually correct.

Your track record is garbage. You're an entertaining poster sometimes, but you just plain suck at making any realistic proposals. There's a reason why everyone laughs at them.

 

[bernmeister]

You want me to refute what? Laf is a 57pts player who played with Panarin. You act like he is a 100pts+. No one will give you that kind of value for him.

doesn't have to be 100+ pts to command value I've assigned
again
you underrate LaF grossly, overrate Guhle + Rein

 

[CanadienShark]

Others also being Canadian is not a factor; you are implying I suggest that ALONE is core to their value/worth/team interest.

LaF already = superior player with elite status likely around the corner 1-2 yrs, barring injury.
That ^ does not apply to most other NHLers of Canadian heritage.


I will keep it up.
And your quote above does nothing to refute my pts.

What in the world are you even saying here? You've made explicit comments about "selling high, Canadian franchises value him more" etc.

You're projecting BIIIIIIIIG time with Laf's potential, when he's been a BIIIIIIIIG let down in his career thus far.

 

[CanadienShark]

Get ‘em bern

View attachment 862240

Bern can sometimes be funny. Consistently throwing shit at the wall, but sadly it never sticks.

 

[bernmeister]

Last year Guhle was sheltered most of the season. This year he was asked to shut down the elite.. at 21 years old. There’s a learning curve here for that kind of responsibility and considering the task, he’s done a pretty good job. He’ll get there sooner than later.

Reinbacher had a disappointing post draft season in Europe but was quite impressive in Laval. He was a step ahead (already) of Mailloux & Barron and he looked great in the AHL. Dare I say he’s got a good chance to make the team next year and is most likely NHL ready already - in a limited/sheltered role

kudos for speaking truth
and
it is not a crime to ask in addition to actual current value, we factor in projected upside on any given player incl Guhle + Rein

But let's also remember/be fair,
no reason to believe that LaF, finally skating fully, having not just turned the corner but made HUGE strides, will stop advancing further.
Like I said, borderline superior player now [arguable on 5x5 stats] has superstardom around the corner

would not be on the table but Habs/to lesser extent Sens are unique fit
MON has D surplus, NY has enuf to get by short term, but this is better

 

[bernmeister]

What in the world are you even saying here? You've made explicit comments about "selling high, Canadian franchises value him more" etc.

You're projecting BIIIIIIIIG time with Laf's potential, when he's been a BIIIIIIIIG let down in his career thus far.

no longer true and you KNOW it

Bern can sometimes be funny. Consistently throwing shit at the wall, but sadly it never sticks.

also erroneous
Rs listen, usually I'm right --- extend Kreider, not deal Buch last min so we get bupkis, etc
they don't usually it is a mistake -- rentals, etc etc

 

[CanadienShark]

no longer true and you KNOW it



also erroneous
Rs listen, usually I'm right --- extend Kreider, not deal Buch last min so we get bupkis, etc
they don't usually it is a mistake -- rentals, etc etc

Uh... A lot of absolute shit and one single pretty good year. He's a big let down.

Sure, you're right... "Usually" - let's redefine the word. Whatever makes you happy.

 

[bernmeister]

Your track record is garbage. You're an entertaining poster sometimes, but you just plain suck at making any realistic proposals. There's a reason why everyone laughs at them.

NO, my track record is excellent.
On trades the measure is bern saying what Rs should do, not if they have to settle for less to get a deal done at all, which may not be a sufficiently good deal.

And there is more to it than just trades like other player decisions
Extending Kreider
dealing Nils L when enuf was on the table, in a return I called
not keeping/using Buch when we had zero chance of going far in POs and instead not waiting til last minute to deal when he had zero term and only a sliver of rfa rights minimalizing return

people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

 

[bud12]

doesn't have to be 100+ pts to command value I've assigned
again
you underrate LaF grossly, overrate Guhle + Rein

Underrate what? A 1ov pick who was busting in is 3 first years who finally have a respectable offensive production by playing with Panarin. Habs wouldn't trade guhle 1on1 for him. Imagine thinking they would add reinbacher to that is beyond stupid

 

[bernmeister]

Uh... A lot of absolute shit and one single pretty good year. He's a big let down.

Sure, you're right... "Usually" - let's redefine the word. Whatever makes you happy.

bold = it's called development
is that something you are capable of with your thoughts?

Rest of it, hey, whatev keeps this civil


til tom peeps, til tom

 

[CanadienShark]

NO, my track record is excellent.
On trades the measure is bern saying what Rs should do, not if they have to settle for less to get a deal done at all, which may not be a sufficiently good deal.

And there is more to it than just trades like other player decisions
Extending Kreider
dealing Nils L when enuf was on the table, in a return I called
not keeping/using Buch when we had zero chance of going far in POs and instead not waiting til last minute to deal when he had zero term and only a sliver of rfa rights minimalizing return

people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

Your track record is objectively awful. You can keep bragging about how you "got it right" with some of your own team, but again, your proposals objectively suck. It'd be hard to review them all, since you throw insane ideas out constantly, but you'd be lucky to "hit" on 2% of your ideas.

bold = it's called development
is that something you are capable of with your thoughts?

Rest of it, hey, whatev keeps this civil


til tom peeps, til tom

You start slanging insults, then say "let's keep it civil?" Nah, let's call a spade a spade. You are not a good evaluator of talent. That's ok.

 

[bernmeister]

Underrate what? A 1ov pick who was busting in is 3 first years who finally have a respectable offensive production by playing with Panarin. Habs wouldn't trade guhle 1on1 for him. Imagine thinking they would add reinbacher to that is beyond stupid

chemistry is a unique thing
yes there is chem w/bread and we don't know what happens if that is changed
chem w/others likely for both, but actual results depends on experimentation

take Ryan Strome
overrated, not great w/others,but hand in glove w/bread

bread also, like everyone else, better fit w/some than others

first efforts LaF + Panarin WERE a disaster but only due to 1 aspect of LaF game: skating
dat wuz den an dis is now
ancient history doesn't apply
LaF is not just a passenger he helps drive that bus

again, I can counter as long as you bring it up: you underrate LaF criminally, overrate Gule + Rein

 

[Lockin17]

MTL :#5 + #25
for
STL: Dvorsky + #16

 

[thefutures]

Underrate what? A 1ov pick who was busting in is 3 first years who finally have a respectable offensive production by playing with Panarin. Habs wouldn't trade guhle 1on1 for him. Imagine thinking they would add reinbacher to that is beyond stupid

What a stupid argument. So slaf is a bust cause he was trash until 1st line mins too?? Or is that not good for ur argument.

 

[Mersss]

chemistry is a unique thing
yes there is chem w/bread and we don't know what happens if that is changed
chem w/others likely for both, but actual results depends on experimentation

take Ryan Strome
overrated, not great w/others,but hand in glove w/bread

bread also, like everyone else, better fit w/some than others

first efforts LaF + Panarin WERE a disaster but only due to 1 aspect of LaF game: skating
dat wuz den an dis is now
ancient history doesn't apply
LaF is not just a passenger he helps drive that bus

again, I can counter as long as you bring it up: you underrate LaF criminally, overrate Gule + Rein

How are we overvaluing Guhle?

Guy is a true shutdown top pairing D at the age of 22 playing for a dumpster team. Playing vs top line every nights

Rainbacher looked SOLID in his short stint in Laval. Only reason he was bot playing more qas because Mailloux was having an AHL all star season in front of him.

Fact is
Guhle > Laf by a mile AINEC
Reinbacher >>>>> Jones
Anr Lindgren is a bottom pairing D getting carried by Adam Fox. See Komisarek and Markov.

The only player Habs would consider trading Reinbacher is maybe Othmann depending on the +. Guhle? Forget it. NYR dint have what it takes in young top line talent to get him.

What a stupid argument. So slaf is a bust cause he was trash until 1st line mins too?? Or is that not good for ur argument.

Slaf was good in all the other aspects of hockey before production came along.

Laf? Not

 

[bud12]

What a stupid argument. So slaf is a bust cause he was trash until 1st line mins too?? Or is that not good for ur argument.

one was 19 when he started the season. The other was 22 when is started the season. One had a 77pts teammate. The other had a 124pts teammate. If Slaf was trending like Laf, he would definitely be called a bust, like he was in is first year. Laf was called a bust by everyone before this season. It's not a argument, it's the truth.

 

[thefutures]

one was 19 when he started the season. The other was 22 when is started the season. One had a 77pts teammate. The other had a 124pts teammate. If Slaf was trending like Laf, he would definitely be called a bust, like he was in is first year. Laf was called a bust by everyone before this season. It's not a argument, it's the truth.

Slaf was busting till he got gifted 1st line minutes that he didn't earn. He would not have 20 points playing where he was before he was gifted a spot next to suzuki. Laf showed more as an 18 year old too with similar deployment. Not fair to call one a bust and not the other.

 

[bud12]

Slaf was busting till he got gifted 1st line minutes that he didn't earn. He would not have 20 points playing where he was before he was gifted a spot next to suzuki. Laf showed more as an 18 year old too with similar deployment. Not fair to call one a bust and not the other.

and Slaf showed more at 19 year old than laf at 22. It's work both way.You can pretend that Laf was good in his 3 first years, we all know he was not. How mutch pts would you think he would get by playing with Dach/Newhook and not Panarin/Trocheck? Would you give a 5ov or Guhle for that kind of production??? This would be a Drouin mistake all over again.

 

[Lt Dan]

You want PLD!

 

[Baksfamous112]

kudos for speaking truth
and
it is not a crime to ask in addition to actual current value, we factor in projected upside on any given player incl Guhle + Rein

But let's also remember/be fair,
no reason to believe that LaF, finally skating fully, having not just turned the corner but made HUGE strides, will stop advancing further.
Like I said, borderline superior player now [arguable on 5x5 stats] has superstardom around the corner

would not be on the table but Habs/to lesser extent Sens are unique fit
MON has D surplus, NY has enuf to get by short term, but this is better

I agree with your assessment of Lafreniere. I’m super high on him as a player and I think he is grossly underrated on these boards. He looks to be a line driver and that is rare.

That being said, I can’t see a winger be worth both Guhle and Reinbacher, which could both be potentially first pairing D as soon as two years from now. It’s just an unrealistic ask. On top of that, Montreal is in no position to trade one of them, let alone both. We have surplus of D but we don’t have a surplus of high quality D.