USA U-20 Evaluation Camp

[Spectacular_Bid]

I agree on LaVallee, although from what I could tell Weller had a strong camp as well. He showed alot more offensive flair than expected.

Weller did have a couple points but I heard he took some really stupid penalties, he had 4 in one game. I'm not sure if you remember but he took some bonehead ones in the WJC too.

 

[Joe d]

I'll have a complete report later. However, here are some initial impressions (I have been at all the sessions, both practices and games). The best teams BY FAR are the USA Blue and the USA White. The FINS have been (barely) competitive, and the SWEDES have been completely outplayed. Both USA teams have better speed and better scoring. There have been some surprises, both in terms of players over- and under-performing. I'll have more on this subject later -- after the games on the large ice surface F/SA. However, I'm afraid they will be more lopsided than the games already played on the back, smaller rink (NHL rink). There were some players "traded between USA Blue and USA White teams before the morning skate on Thursday. Bourque and Schremp from USA Blue to USA White and Ryan and Kolarik from USA White to USA Blue. More on specific USA players after the F/SA games.

Looking forward to your report !

 

[FREE DENTAL CARE]

USA U20 Camp -- Some Thoughts on Players

I saw all the games including the Blue/White scrimmage and at least two of the practices for each USA team. I won't comment on the Finns or the Swedes (I didn't go there to scout them). So, here goes. Overall, I think the USA has a strong contingent of players in this age group (86-88). They could pick from 30 of the 40+ players in camp and have a competitive team. It will depend on how the coaches want to go (e.g., speed, size, grit, etc. -- not that in all cases these are exclusive traits). Here are some players I liked and some other I wasn't so impressed with:

GOALIES:

All four of the goalies in camp looked strong, but Schneider and Quick looked the best to me. Because of his size and ability to control the puck (rebounds), that Corey Schneider has the best NHL potential in the group.

DEFENSEMEN:

I thought the defensemen were an especially talented group of skaters. I especially liked Thelen, Lee, Chorney, and Yandle. Of this group, I think Thelen has the best NHL potential (at this time).

FORWARDS:

This was an interesting group of players who all brought there own "specialties" to the camp. I thought the best of the bunch included Pineault, LaVallee, Bourque, and Wheeler. Pineault has a big shot, played with an edge, and worked well with everyone he skated with. He did take some bad penalties, but in doing so, managed to make room for himself. LaVallee was a pleasant surprise given his 4th round dfart selection. He has good size (big body) and is a smooth skater with good first-step quickness. He showed that his hands are good as well. He threw some big body checks, and some big elbows as well, but stayed penalty free. After watching him, I am still surprised he went so late in the draft. Bourque is very small (5'5"?), but strong on his skates and has a good scoring touch. He's not afraid to "ay on the lumber" either. Wheeler is a somewhat rough skater, but shows good agility when he gets going. Scored some nice goals with close in moves.

I came away with the impression that the players with the best NHL potential were Adam Pineault, Jordan LaVallee, and Blake Wheeler.

OTHERS:

There were some players who I expected more of like Kessel, Schremp, and Ryan. Robbie Schremp is very talented with the puck, but a poor skater. After watching him, I was dissappointed that all his time with the puck didn't lead to more production -- for him or for his linemates. He's a bit like Chinese food. You see so much stickhandling when he has the puck, but not much happens and you're left wanting more. I kept trying to think of how I would use him if I was the coach. He didn't seem to fit with any of the players he skated with. In some ways (e.g., stickhandling) he was the best player in the camp, but in others, including his lack of maturity (throwing sticks, etc.) he didn't seem to fit at all.

Kessel is very slippery when he has the puck. He appeared to press more and more as the camp went on because he wasn't scoring. He is very talented, but I expected more after all the hype (this is the first time I had seen him play). So, I guess I was somewhat disappointed with his performance. I expected USA's answer to Sidney Crosby and didn't get it -- not even in the same "ball park".

However, the biggest disappointment was Bobby Ryan. He is very slow (both skating and reacting), lacked intensity, loafed getting back to play defense and simply had a hard time keeping up with the pace of the game. He finally gave up in the last game against the Fins and took the last period off (shoulder problem?). He did a couple of things early in the camp, including one goal on a break-away where he showed some good hands, but overall, he was a BIG disappointment. But, listening to the scouts talk about him, confirmed that one's "expectancy" about a player certainly colors how the player is perceived. He looked clumsy, and awkward and fell down going for a puck and the scouts commented "Well, he showed good hustle going for that one". He may have been the only player who frequently looked to be out of place at the camp.

 

[Frenzy31]

I saw all the games including the Blue/White scrimmage and at least two of the practices for each USA team. I won't comment on the Finns or the Swedes (I didn't go there to scout them). So, here goes. Overall, I think the USA has a strong contingent of players in this age group (86-88). They could pick from 30 of the 40+ players in camp and have a competitive team. It will depend on how the coaches want to go (e.g., speed, size, grit, etc. -- not that in all cases these are exclusive traits). Here are some players I liked and some other I wasn't so impressed with:

GOALIES:

All four of the goalies in camp looked strong, but Schneider and Quick looked the best to me. Because of his size and ability to control the puck (rebounds), that Corey Schneider has the best NHL potential in the group.

DEFENSEMEN:

I thought the defensemen were an especially talented group of skaters. I especially liked Thelen, Lee, Chorney, and Yandle. Of this group, I think Thelen has the best NHL potential (at this time).

FORWARDS:

This was an interesting group of players who all brought there own "specialties" to the camp. I thought the best of the bunch included Pineault, LaVallee, Bourque, and Wheeler. Pineault has a big shot, played with an edge, and worked well with everyone he skated with. He did take some bad penalties, but in doing so, managed to make room for himself. LaVallee was a pleasant surprise given his 4th round dfart selection. He has good size (big body) and is a smooth skater with good first-step quickness. He showed that his hands are good as well. He threw some big body checks, and some big elbows as well, but stayed penalty free. After watching him, I am still surprised he went so late in the draft. Bourque is very small (5'5"?), but strong on his skates and has a good scoring touch. He's not afraid to "ay on the lumber" either. Wheeler is a somewhat rough skater, but shows good agility when he gets going. Scored some nice goals with close in moves.

I came away with the impression that the players with the best NHL potential were Adam Pineault, Jordan LaVallee, and Blake Wheeler.

OTHERS:

There were some players who I expected more of like Kessel, Schremp, and Ryan. Robbie Schremp is very talented with the puck, but a poor skater. After watching him, I was dissappointed that all his time with the puck didn't lead to more production -- for him or for his linemates. He's a bit like Chinese food. You see so much stickhandling when he has the puck, but not much happens and you're left wanting more. I kept trying to think of how I would use him if I was the coach. He didn't seem to fit with any of the players he skated with. In some ways (e.g., stickhandling) he was the best player in the camp, but in others, including his lack of maturity (throwing sticks, etc.) he didn't seem to fit at all.

Kessel is very slippery when he has the puck. He appeared to press more and more as the camp went on because he wasn't scoring. He is very talented, but I expected more after all the hype (this is the first time I had seen him play). So, I guess I was somewhat disappointed with his performance. I expected USA's answer to Sidney Crosby and didn't get it -- not even in the same "ball park".

However, the biggest disappointment was Bobby Ryan. He is very slow (both skating and reacting), lacked intensity, loafed getting back to play defense and simply had a hard time keeping up with the pace of the game. He finally gave up in the last game against the Fins and took the last period off (shoulder problem?). He did a couple of things early in the camp, including one goal on a break-away where he showed some good hands, but overall, he was a BIG disappointment. But, listening to the scouts talk about him, confirmed that one's "expectancy" about a player certainly colors how the player is perceived. He looked clumsy, and awkward and fell down going for a puck and the scouts commented "Well, he showed good hustle going for that one". He may have been the only player who frequently looked to be out of place at the camp.

Thanks for the update and your thoughts. It is always nice to hear from someone who has actually seen the players play.

One player I am interested in is TJ Oshie. When Stoa was left off the roster, I was stunned. I had no idea of who TJ Oshie was and then the Blues selected him in the 1st round. (looking in the guides, he wasn't really expected to go near that high).

What were your impressions of him? I kind of would have expected him to not quite be ready for that level of competition. But your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[FREE DENTAL CARE]

Actually, I liked Oshie's approach. He showed that he's a hard worker. He created some good scoring chances for himself but couldn't finish. I liked his aggressiveness and think that he may be one year away. The speed of the camp was tremendous. I do feel he was in the top half of the forwards, but toward the botom of the first half.

 

[Cerebral]

Actually, I liked Oshie's approach. He showed that he's a hard worker. He created some good scoring chances for himself but couldn't finish. I liked his aggressiveness and think that he may be one year away. The speed of the camp was tremendous. I do feel he was in the top half of the forwards, but toward the botom of the first half.

Would you say that there is a pretty good chance that Chorney will make the roster? Also, how did Paukovich look?

 

[Slangston]

How about the 'other' little guy Nathan Gerbe? How'd he look, and any word on how Chris Butler performed?

Thanks in advance.

 

[FREE DENTAL CARE]

Gerbe was one of several forwards including Porter, Kolarik, Lerg, Fraser, Abdelkader, Fritsche, Zalewski, and Maiani who all had seemed to have similar skills including good speed and stickhandling, but none of them really stood out. This is not to say that they were deficient in any way, but more to say that you could take any combination of 3-4 of them and not gain/lose too much.

Butler looked solid. I would say he was the next defenseman after the group I mentioned above (Thelen, Lee, Chorney, and Yandle). I would put Butler in a second group followed by Lashoff, Niskanen and Brennan.

Paukovich played with high intensity and caused some things to happen offensively. But to be honest, I didn't notice him much after the first game (after the BLUE/WHITE intersquad game).

 

[bigd]

Gerbe was one of several forwards including Porter, Kolarik, Lerg, Fraser, Abdelkader, Fritsche, Zalewski, and Maiani who all had seemed to have similar skills including good speed and stickhandling, but none of them really stood out. This is not to say that they were deficient in any way, but more to say that you could take any combination of 3-4 of them and not gain/lose too much.

Butler looked solid. I would say he was the next defenseman after the group I mentioned above (Thelen, Lee, Chorney, and Yandle). I would put Butler in a second group followed by Lashoff, Niskanen and Brennan.

Paukovich played with high intensity and caused some things to happen offensively. But to be honest, I didn't notice him much after the first game (after the BLUE/WHITE intersquad game).

No mention of the two 88's, P. Mueler and E. Johnson. Did they look out of place? Could they keep up with the pace of the other players? Do they have a shot at making the team?

 

[Spectacular_Bid]

Gerbe was one of several forwards including Porter, Kolarik, Lerg, Fraser, Abdelkader, Fritsche, Zalewski, and Maiani who all had seemed to have similar skills including good speed and stickhandling, but none of them really stood out. This is not to say that they were deficient in any way, but more to say that you could take any combination of 3-4 of them and not gain/lose too much.

Butler looked solid. I would say he was the next defenseman after the group I mentioned above (Thelen, Lee, Chorney, and Yandle). I would put Butler in a second group followed by Lashoff, Niskanen and Brennan.

Paukovich played with high intensity and caused some things to happen offensively. But to be honest, I didn't notice him much after the first game (after the BLUE/WHITE intersquad game).

I appreciate your reviews but I think you may be a little off on a few players. Porter for one is a lock for this team. He tied for the lead in points with Pineault, LaVallee and Ryan and was one of the US's best forwards on last years team. I also feel that Fritsche is a lock for this team, rumor has it that he was the last player cut from last years team. I also heard that Lashoff looked great, I can't see him not making this team. I know you are a LaVallee fan and it looks like he had a great camp but I can't see him being more than a third liner on this team if he makes it. Personally, I'd like to see him there. The U.S. really lacked 3rd and 4th liners who could produce last year. Looks like LaVallee could be this type of player.

 

[FREE DENTAL CARE]

Mueller had moments where he looked great and then others where he loked invisible. He was more physical than I thought he would be. He's another guy like Gerbe, etc (see above) who showed their skills but didn't really stand out. I didn't notice E. Johnson. I have tried to avoid commenting on who will make the team. there was lots of talent and it will depend on how the coaches want to approach the tournament. It was clear that some of the players had had better (more?) coaching than some of the other players. This was evident in the way they handled different things from picking up on the practice drills to who killed penalties (it appeared that the latter was not a particularly popular task). Also, from watching the bench, it was clear that some players thought they were not getting the right amount of ice time (no names here). Perhaps this reflected different levels of maturity.

 

[Spectacular_Bid]

One funny thing I heard was that during one practice Walt Kyle asked all the centers (even if they weren't playing center at the camp) to stay with him and practice face-offs. The rest of the forwards were to go to the other end to shoot on the goalies. Only 3 players went to shoot. Guess the U.S. is pretty set at the center position, eh!

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Mueller had moments where he looked great and then others where he loked invisible. He was more physical than I thought he would be. He's another guy like Gerbe, etc (see above) who showed their skills but didn't really stand out. I didn't notice E. Johnson. I have tried to avoid commenting on who will make the team. there was lots of talent and it will depend on how the coaches want to approach the tournament. It was clear that some of the players had had better (more?) coaching than some of the other players. This was evident in the way they handled different things from picking up on the practice drills to who killed penalties (it appeared that the latter was not a particularly popular task). Also, from watching the bench, it was clear that some players thought they were not getting the right amount of ice time (no names here). Perhaps this reflected different levels of maturity.

Interesting insights. What would you say (based on initial impressions) are the potential strengths and weaknesses of the probable U.S. team at the WJC's? IMO, we'll probably see the most talented junior team the U.S. has ever produced, and will have to self-implode to not do exceptionally well.

 

[Spectacular_Bid]

Interesting insights. What would you say (based on initial impressions) are the potential strengths and weaknesses of the U.S. team at the WJC's? IMO, we'll probably see the most talented junior team the U.S. has ever produced, and will have to self-implode to not do exceptionally well.

Agreed, I can't really see a weakness with this group. Hopefully they pick the right team. The US is strong in net. There is a nice mix of defensemen. The forwards are the deepest, I mean even 3rd and 4th lines guys on this team will be able to produce while playing the role.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Agreed, I can't really see a weakness with this group. Hopefully they pick the right team. The US is strong in net. There is a nice mix of defensemen. The forwards are the deepest, I mean even 3rd and 4th lines guys on this team will be able to produce while playing the role.

What I appreciate is the U.S. hockey program is at the point where hard choices have to be made when it comes to forming national teams. Remember the days when Chris Nilan was on the Canada Cup roster? No more! I think the U.S. brass will get things right this go around, and Walt Kyle is a great coach, so I'm pretty confident.

 

[hockeydad15]

I saw all the games including the Blue/White scrimmage and at least two of the practices for each USA team. I won't comment on the Finns or the Swedes (I didn't go there to scout them). So, here goes. Overall, I think the USA has a strong contingent of players in this age group (86-88). They could pick from 30 of the 40+ players in camp and have a competitive team. It will depend on how the coaches want to go (e.g., speed, size, grit, etc. -- not that in all cases these are exclusive traits). Here are some players I liked and some other I wasn't so impressed with:

GOALIES:

All four of the goalies in camp looked strong, but Schneider and Quick looked the best to me. Because of his size and ability to control the puck (rebounds), that Corey Schneider has the best NHL potential in the group.

DEFENSEMEN:

I thought the defensemen were an especially talented group of skaters. I especially liked Thelen, Lee, Chorney, and Yandle. Of this group, I think Thelen has the best NHL potential (at this time).

FORWARDS:

This was an interesting group of players who all brought there own "specialties" to the camp. I thought the best of the bunch included Pineault, LaVallee, Bourque, and Wheeler. Pineault has a big shot, played with an edge, and worked well with everyone he skated with. He did take some bad penalties, but in doing so, managed to make room for himself. LaVallee was a pleasant surprise given his 4th round dfart selection. He has good size (big body) and is a smooth skater with good first-step quickness. He showed that his hands are good as well. He threw some big body checks, and some big elbows as well, but stayed penalty free. After watching him, I am still surprised he went so late in the draft. Bourque is very small (5'5"?), but strong on his skates and has a good scoring touch. He's not afraid to "ay on the lumber" either. Wheeler is a somewhat rough skater, but shows good agility when he gets going. Scored some nice goals with close in moves.

I came away with the impression that the players with the best NHL potential were Adam Pineault, Jordan LaVallee, and Blake Wheeler.

OTHERS:

There were some players who I expected more of like Kessel, Schremp, and Ryan. Robbie Schremp is very talented with the puck, but a poor skater. After watching him, I was dissappointed that all his time with the puck didn't lead to more production -- for him or for his linemates. He's a bit like Chinese food. You see so much stickhandling when he has the puck, but not much happens and you're left wanting more. I kept trying to think of how I would use him if I was the coach. He didn't seem to fit with any of the players he skated with. In some ways (e.g., stickhandling) he was the best player in the camp, but in others, including his lack of maturity (throwing sticks, etc.) he didn't seem to fit at all.

Kessel is very slippery when he has the puck. He appeared to press more and more as the camp went on because he wasn't scoring. He is very talented, but I expected more after all the hype (this is the first time I had seen him play). So, I guess I was somewhat disappointed with his performance. I expected USA's answer to Sidney Crosby and didn't get it -- not even in the same "ball park".

However, the biggest disappointment was Bobby Ryan. He is very slow (both skating and reacting), lacked intensity, loafed getting back to play defense and simply had a hard time keeping up with the pace of the game. He finally gave up in the last game against the Fins and took the last period off (shoulder problem?). He did a couple of things early in the camp, including one goal on a break-away where he showed some good hands, but overall, he was a BIG disappointment. But, listening to the scouts talk about him, confirmed that one's "expectancy" about a player certainly colors how the player is perceived. He looked clumsy, and awkward and fell down going for a puck and the scouts commented "Well, he showed good hustle going for that one". He may have been the only player who frequently looked to be out of place at the camp.

Did you also notice that they played Schremp on the wing most of the time, and when he was at center he was unstopable. Maybe he could dress as goalie next time.

 

[orangeandblack]

There were some players who I expected more of like Kessel, Schremp, and Ryan. Robbie Schremp is very talented with the puck, but a poor skater. After watching him, I was dissappointed that all his time with the puck didn't lead to more production -- for him or for his linemates. He's a bit like Chinese food. You see so much stickhandling when he has the puck, but not much happens and you're left wanting more. I kept trying to think of how I would use him if I was the coach. He didn't seem to fit with any of the players he skated with. In some ways (e.g., stickhandling) he was the best player in the camp, but in others, including his lack of maturity (throwing sticks, etc.) he didn't seem to fit at all.

Kessel is very slippery when he has the puck. He appeared to press more and more as the camp went on because he wasn't scoring. He is very talented, but I expected more after all the hype (this is the first time I had seen him play). So, I guess I was somewhat disappointed with his performance. I expected USA's answer to Sidney Crosby and didn't get it -- not even in the same "ball park".

However, the biggest disappointment was Bobby Ryan. He is very slow (both skating and reacting), lacked intensity, loafed getting back to play defense and simply had a hard time keeping up with the pace of the game. He finally gave up in the last game against the Fins and took the last period off (shoulder problem?). He did a couple of things early in the camp, including one goal on a break-away where he showed some good hands, but overall, he was a BIG disappointment. But, listening to the scouts talk about him, confirmed that one's "expectancy" about a player certainly colors how the player is perceived. He looked clumsy, and awkward and fell down going for a puck and the scouts commented "Well, he showed good hustle going for that one". He may have been the only player who frequently looked to be out of place at the camp.

thats always been the knock on ryan is that hes big and an awkward skater, but at the end of the game he gets the job done. i cant see how the leading scorer at the camp looked the most out of place. hes one of those players who wont look as pretty as as fedorov or datsyuk out there, but will be an nhl 1st liner and on the number 1 power play unit, and score a ton of points (andreychuk, leclair, neely).
As for as schremp, i can see him showing up and going through the motions bc he already knows hes on the team. same with kessel, i think he thought it was gonna be easier to put up points, then really started pressing at the end bc his totals werent where he wanted them to be.

this will be a very strong team, with no glaring strength or weakness. all aspects of the team should be pretty equal

 

[FREE DENTAL CARE]

I agree that we will have a strong team at all positions and a competitive team as well. I have (on purpose) not predicted who will make or not make the team. There are any number of great combinations that could come from the players who were at camp. I think I said something like that (above). Also, these are my impressions and I won't get into a pissing contest over them.

Aside -- I just got a message from someone (name withheld) saying that a "west coast, hall of fame, GM who was at the camp felt Ryan was the best player in the camp". Whomever this "west coast GM was -- he may have taken too many pucks in the head in the days before helmets were mandatory. At the least, this shows that it's always good to have input from more than one person.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Based on what I've read/heard, this is who I think are the favorites to make the team:


Goaltenders (x2):

Schneider
Frazee

Defense (x7):

Hagemo
Lee
Johnson
Lashoff
Chorney
Thelen
Sauer

Forwards (x13):
Bourque
Pineault
Kessel
Porter
Weller
Schremp
LaVallee
Mueller
Ryan
Fritsche
Wheeler
Skille
Gerbe


One heck of a team! Since there are so many natural centers, you can really pick and choose where you place guys based on the best overall fit.

 

[Spectacular_Bid]

I agree that we will have a strong team at all positions and a competitive team as well. I have (on purpose) not predicted who will make or not make the team. There are any number of great combinations that could come from the players who were at camp. I think I said something like that (above). Also, these are my impressions and I won't get into a pissing contest over them.

Aside -- I just got a message from someone (name withheld) saying that a "west coast, hall of fame, GM who was at the camp felt Ryan was the best player in the camp". Whomever this "west coast GM was -- he may have taken too many pucks in the head in the days before helmets were mandatory. At the least, this shows that it's always good to have input from more than one person.

Thats the beauty of all of this, we all have our impressions and opinions. For what its worth, I heard Ryan looked good too.

 

[Spectacular_Bid]

Based on what I've read/heard, this is who I think are the favorites to make the team:


Goaltenders (x2):

Schneider
Frazee

Defense (x7):

Hagemo
Lee
Johnson
Lashoff
Chorney
Thelen
Sauer

Forwards (x13):
Bourque
Pineault
Kessel
Porter
Weller
Schremp
LaVallee
Mueller
Ryan
Fritsche
Wheeler
Skille
Gerbe


One heck of a team! Since there are so many natural centers, you can really pick and choose where you place guys based on the best overall fit.

Nice picks. You think Gerbe will make it though? I really like his energy and his fearlessness but will he fit on this team better than Kolarik or Oshie??

 

[King Fish]

i like your picks, but i dont think brennan will be there, if you pick 7 of the 8 you posted. i also hope weller is not on the team again, i really didnt find him to be much of an asset, and talking to guys that play him in college, they feel it was a joke he was on the team last year, and he doesnt have much upside at all. i would rather see kolarik (last season he looked like the u-17, not u-18 kolarik), or oshie. i also feel theyll take wheeler, just a hunch though.

Any shot at Downie making the squad?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Nice picks. You think Gerbe will make it though? I really like his energy and his fearlessness but will he fit on this team better than Kolarik or Oshie??

I think so. He's small, but in the WJC's that doesn't matter so much, especially with his playing style (Theo Fleury). He has a ton of skill, is a good leader, always competes, and has alot of international experience.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Any shot at Downie making the squad?

Maybe the Canadian squad.

 

[orangeandblack]

its absolutely impossible.......................considering hes canadian