UPDATE : Trois-Rivières Lions are still alive with a potential new owner. Newfoundland Growlers are FOLDING!

[JMCx4]

Maybe the QMJHL should try St. John's again.

 

[GindyDraws]

Maybe the QMJHL should try St. John's again.

Fredericton or bust, University of New Brunswick be damned.

 

[MMC]

 

[Satan]

Maybe the QMJHL should try St. John's again.

Getting off the island for travel + the expense is always an issue. I can't see the QMJHL wanting to test out St. John's again.

 

[GindyDraws]

ECHL Terminates Newfoundland Membership

The ECHL Board of Governors has voted to terminate the Membership of the Newfoundland Growlers, effective immediately, for failure to fulfill obligations under the ECHL Bylaws.

echl.com

And it's official.

 

[MMC]

 

[MMC]

“Despite the efforts of our front-office, Deacon Sports and Entertainment regrets to announce that the sale of the Newfoundland Growlers could not be finalized prior to the league-mandated April 2, 2024 deadline. Due to unforeseen challenges, and while a discussion was put forth to salvage the future of both teams, only the continuation of the Trois-Rivières Lions was approved by the ECHL, and as a result, the ECHL Board of Governors has voted to terminate the league membership of the Newfoundland Growlers.

Deacon Sports and Entertainment has reached an agreement for the sale and continued operations of the Trois-Rivières Lions, pending the approval of the ECHL. The decision to sell the Trois-Rivières Lions comes after careful consideration and strategic planning to ensure the continued success and growth of the franchise.”

 

[613Hockey]

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2024/03/27/les-jours-des-lions-de-trois-rivieres-semblent-comptes

Wild, looks like it was the same ownership group that failed in the CEBL not long ago

ECHL Newfoundland Growlers Cease Operations - Dynes Pressbox

 

[David Suzuki]

Fredericton or bust, University of New Brunswick be damned.

edmundston is the only realistic option in the maritimes no way unb ever allows it lol

 

[dm8895]

Fredericton or bust, University of New Brunswick be damned.

Where would they play? City would have to build a venue.

 

[GindyDraws]

Where would they play? City would have to build a venue.

I dunno, but I'd like to talk about it before the mods delete it for rambling.

 

[dm8895]

I dunno, but I'd like to talk about it before the mods delete it for rambling.

I’m in Fredericton and I’d love for this to happen, I just don’t think UNB lets anyone into their rink. It’s not happening but as someone who prefers watching grown men play I’d rather an ECHL team but I’ll watch any high level hockey, I’ve had season tickets for 2 AUS teams and a Jr.A team over the years so if anything else moved to town I’d be on a list for season tickets. I know tons of people who wish the city had built a 4,000 seat rink with an additional ice surface instead of 2 - 1,500 seat 2 ice facility’s but I can say as someone who plays hockey in the city that we still don’t have enough ice to go around so I think they made the right call but I think that closed the door on anyone else moving to Freddy and UNB remains king.

 

[Channelcat]

Geography is the main issue for so many of these markets, but the fans are there. How about a "Maritimes" pro league? Could probably do 10 teams or so. Perhaps much more depending on how far into Quebec and the NE states you go.

 

[JMCx4]

Geography is the main issue for so many of these markets, but the fans are there. How about a "Maritimes" pro league? Could probably do 10 teams or so. Perhaps much more depending on how far into Quebec and the NE states you go.

Ask yourself: "Where's the money in that?" A question that DS&E's Dean MacDonald - and previous St. John's hockey team owners - should have asked themselves before they skated headlong into the end boards.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Geography is the main issue for so many of these markets, but the fans are there. How about a "Maritimes" pro league? Could probably do 10 teams or so. Perhaps much more depending on how far into Quebec and the NE states you go.

Nova Scotia, PEI, and New Brunswick are probably already happy with the Q and not really worried about the ECHL or other minor leagues.

Newfoundland is unfortunately on an island of its own, literally and figuratively, and they're sadly always going to be hampered by travel expenses. Hope they get another shot, but hoping for a major junior team is probably their best chance at success.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

I’m in Fredericton and I’d love for this to happen, I just don’t think UNB lets anyone into their rink. It’s not happening but as someone who prefers watching grown men play I’d rather an ECHL team but I’ll watch any high level hockey, I’ve had season tickets for 2 AUS teams and a Jr.A team over the years so if anything else moved to town I’d be on a list for season tickets. I know tons of people who wish the city had built a 4,000 seat rink with an additional ice surface instead of 2 - 1,500 seat 2 ice facility’s but I can say as someone who plays hockey in the city that we still don’t have enough ice to go around so I think they made the right call but I think that closed the door on anyone else moving to Freddy and UNB remains king.

I think UNB would beat any ECHL team, personally. They are certainly better coached.

 

[dm8895]

I think UNB would beat any ECHL team, personally. They are certainly better coached.

Oh 100%, I worded that kind of funny but I meant I’d rather an ECHL team than a Q team.

 

[jetsmooseice]

So I understand that the "official" reason the Growlers folded was the ECHL board of governors voted to terminate their membership in the league.

But what was the "unofficial" reason? Did the owners just run out of money and/or walk away? Did they have venue lease issues (which IIRC was one of the reasons behind the downfall of the CEBL Growlers basketball team)? Or was it something else entirely?

Folding a team always sucks but it looks bush to do it when the season is on. Big black eye for the ECHL. How did the league not just keep it running until the season ended?

As for Trois-Rivieres, I would imagine that the city, the owners and the league were quite motivated to keep that team afloat given that they just built a nice new rink in that city.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

So I understand that the "official" reason the Growlers folded was the ECHL board of governors voted to terminate their membership in the league.

But what was the "unofficial" reason? Did the owners just run out of money and/or walk away? Did they have venue lease issues (which IIRC was one of the reasons behind the downfall of the CEBL Growlers basketball team)? Or was it something else entirely?

Folding a team always sucks but it looks bush to do it when the season is on. Big black eye for the ECHL. How did the league not just keep it running until the season ended?

As for Trois-Rivieres, I would imagine that the city, the owners and the league were quite motivated to keep that team afloat given that they just built a nice new rink in that city.

$$$$

The travel costs from St John's to anywhere are simply prohibitive. Great arena, great hockey market, but impossible to make money because they have to fly everywhere.

Geography is the main issue for so many of these markets, but the fans are there. How about a "Maritimes" pro league? Could probably do 10 teams or so. Perhaps much more depending on how far into Quebec and the NE states you go.

The AUS is better than any pro league you could possibly create for the Maritimes.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Part of me thinks that St. John's' best hope is to land a Q team and make it so that they play the first quarter of the season on the road, the middle half of the season at home with visiting teams knocking their season series out on consecutive games, and then the final quarter of the season on the road again.

Not ideal or likely, but possibly the only functional way for them to minimize operating costs.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

Part of me thinks that St. John's' best hope is to land a Q team and make it so that they play the first quarter of the season on the road, the middle half of the season at home with visiting teams knocking their season series out on consecutive games, and then the final quarter of the season on the road again.

Not ideal or likely, but possibly the only functional way for them to minimize operating costs.

St John's has had AHL, QMJHL, and now ECHL teams fail. I don't think people understand just how remote it is.

For perspective, it's an 18 hour trek by bus and ferry to the NEAREST QMJHL team (Cape Breton). That's assuming the ferry runs on time of course, which it frequently does not in the winter (my grandfather worked on the NL Ferries, so I know what I speak of). You need to plan a 24 hour trip just to get to Cape Breton by bus.

That's like putting a WHL team in Whitehorse, or an OHL team in Brandon, MB. Nobody in their right mind would think it's a good idea.

For ECHL perspective, a team in Puerto Rico would be as close to the Florida Everblades as St John's is to Trois-Rivieres. And it would certainly be cheaper to fly from San Juan to Miami (and then bus to Estero) than to fly from St John's to Montreal and bus to Trois-Rivieres.

St John's is not financially viable in any hockey league.

 

[JMCx4]

St John's has had AHL, QMJHL, and now ECHL teams fail. I don't think people understand just how remote it is. ...

St John's is not financially viable in any hockey league.

SOLUTION? ... Stand up a 6-team juniors or senior league who all play @ Mary Brown's Centre, engaging in some sort of a round-robin scheme to stretch over several months. Would there be enough affordable long-term lodging - or maybe billeting - around St. John's to make this scheme work?

 

[Satan]

St John's has had AHL, QMJHL, and now ECHL teams fail. I don't think people understand just how remote it is.

St John's is not financially viable in any hockey league.

Its worth noting the Ice Caps did not “financially fail”. They were moved off the island closer to their NHL partner team. Financially, the AHL Ice Caps were doing fine…. as were the AHL Maple Leafs that came before them.

I do wonder if Danny Williams makes another play for an AHL organization in this city. I’ve heard rumours again to never rule it out.


The recent ECHL Growlers case honestly seems to fall on Deacon Sports ownership… plus squabbles with St Johns Sports and Entertainment (arena owners). Deacon almost ran the Trois-Rivieres team into the ground. Also sold the Iowa team this summer. The Growlers were kicked out of Mile One in 2021 and played games in CBS to start the year. They did not have competent ownership- despite early and pretty consistent success in the ECHL.

Financially, the margins on ECHL are probably thin. I do wonder if competent owners could have made it worked. A QMJHL team on this island would never make it.

The city supported their AHL franchises though. It would be great for them to return. But this is an island in the middle of the north atlantic and getting to and from this island during the winters isn’t always easy thanks to fog, wind, snow, and number of commercial flights.

SOLUTION? ... Stand up a 6-team juniors or senior league who all play @ Mary Brown's Centre, engaging in some sort of a round-robin scheme to stretch over several months. Would there be enough affordable long-term lodging - or maybe billeting - around St. John's to make this scheme work?

No

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

Its worth noting the Ice Caps did not “financially fail”. They were moved off the island closer to their NHL partner team. Financially, the AHL Ice Caps were doing fine…. as were the AHL Maple Leafs that came before them.

I do wonder if Danny Williams makes another play for an AHL organization in this city. I’ve heard rumours again to never rule it out.

The St John's IceCaps (and, previously, the Maple Leafs) could survive because their NHL affiliate was paying player salaries (for the roster members on NHL contracts) and much, if not all, of the coach / staff / development costs. You could argue that the IceCaps left for non-financial reasons, but it is certainly less costly for the Jets, Habs, and Leafs to have their AHL affiliates close by than in St John's.

What team would find it better financially to relocate their AHL franchise to St John's?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

the issue facing Newfoundland outside of the issues w/ MLSE AND DSE falls solely on SJSE staying out of the narrative as they claimed they had nothing to do with why the Leafs elected to move to Toronto and the sidebar that was the the Growlers existence once SJSE kept renegotiating the lease arena contracts which is why the the Growlers were forced out to Conception Bay.....

there is no chance any league or prospective ownership group will deal with SJSE if that's the sole option for any prospective franchise return to Newfoundland.... in essence.... SJSE needs to be taken or removed entirely from the arena operation business as what eventually occurred when the Trustee board was tossed out and removed from day to day operations in Portland, which would cause the instability of any member club in any league.....

simply, the AHL/QMJHL (Fog Devils) AFTER the decision by MLSE to leave for Toronto and left the AHL Leafs logos all over MBC (Mile One) in place and DSE's attempt that just imploded by ECHL bylaws.... NO league will be interested or ownership until SJSE is not the central factor in the arena...

The AHL has moved away from those markets that's why the ECHL was tried.