Unpopular opinion

[nhlfan9191]

Two main reasons I don’t trade him

1. He’s a leader in the room. Great attitude, looks like a real pro. How many players do we have that are more dedicated than him? He wants to win with this team, a hometown guy who cares about the team. Invaluable IMO.

2. Looks fit and is still improving every year. Still has that youngster’s speed. I think he will still be good at 33-35 which gives us plenty of time…if alk our young D pan out and he feels redundant (especially with Hutson) we can trade him in 2026 or later.

He’s legitimately a great playmaker, his points are often coming from chances he’s generating both 5v5 and on the PP. very different situation compared to Anderson who was always limited offensively (needs linemates who do all the work in the ozone or a counterattack play to produce)

I think a problem a lot of fans have is they don’t value what a players worth is to a team when factoring in trade value. Sometimes the potential trade value looks sexy to us, but a lot of the time the return is worth less to the coaches and GM’s. We can’t run a defence full of rookies and youngsters, and it’s not always as simple as just running to FA to find some plug to fill a spot. Having good veterans around is just as important to player development as anything. I feel like the failed rebuilds around the league that get brought up a lot are a result of not having very good leadership or stopgap players that add value both on and off the ice.

 

[26Mats]

Matty and Hutson together would be the ultimate firestorm for this board. The amount of high risk plays and turnovers committed would give so many people heart attacks there wouldn't be enough cardiologists to deal with it

I was more envisioning Mathespn on one pair and Hutson on another.

But for sure, get ready to see Matheson amd Hotson on the ice together when we're down a goal late in games. It will be offensive hockey, at both ends of the ice. But at least it will be the closest thing to Subban-Markov we've seen in a while. I think Hutson will be more electric offensively than Subban. Though he probably doesn't have PK's clapper.

 

[Deebs]

I was more envisioning Mathespn on one pair and Hutson on another.

But for sure, get ready to see Matheson amd Hotson on the ice together when we're down a goal late in games. It will be offensive hockey, at both ends of the ice. But at least it will be the closest thing to Subban-Markov we've seen in a while. I think Hutson will be more electric offensively than Subban. Though he probably doesn't have PK's clapper.

All good.

 

[BLONG7]

3.5m is literally nothing with the cap rising and he's only here for the last year of his deal.

They'll probably just move Kovacevic and Harris this off-season, that removes part of the log jam without compromising the two veteran defenseman on an otherwise still green blueline.

Maybe.............but if we are being honest, Kovacevic is way more value at 775K than Savard at 3.5M
Kovaceivic is bigger, younger, and led the team with a + 11 which was crazy since the team was a - 60 goals or so.............

 

[Deebs]

Maybe.............but if we are being honest, Kovacevic is way more value at 775K than Savard at 3.5M
Kovaceivic is bigger, younger, and led the team with a + 11 which was crazy since the team was a - 60 goals or so.............

I have no problem keeping Kova around as a bottom pairing/#7 guy for the time being.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Maybe.............but if we are being honest, Kovacevic is way more value at 775K than Savard at 3.5M
Kovaceivic is bigger, younger, and led the team with a + 11 which was crazy since the team was a - 60 goals or so.............

Savard was a great signing at 3.5 million as he is a well above average defender and a legitimate piece to a Stanley Cup contender. Kovacevic is adequately paid for a #6/#7 D who is in the press box on a healthy Stanley Cup contender.

Plus/minus is a useless stat and should not be used by anyone with a modicum of hockey knowledge. You put Kovacevic in Savard's position and he is much worse than the -1 that Savard ended up at while going against the league's top players. Meanwhile, Savard would be even better than the +11 that Kovacevic posted if he only had to face 3rd and 4th liners all season while being well rested with fresh legs due to the reduced ice time.

Are we now going to argue that Pezzetta's +4 is evidence that he is better defensively than Suzuki who was a -14 lol. They are not even in the same stratosphere yet there is a huge gap in favour of Pezzetta when it comes to +/-

I like Kovacevic as a depth guy but he can not hold Savard's jock strap.

Not saying that you do not have a modicum of hockey knowledge.....just that you should not use this particular argument.

 

[BLONG7]

Savard is a bargain at 3.5 million as he is a well above average defender and a legitimate piece to a Stanley Cup contender. Kovacevic is adequately paid for a #6/#7 D who is in the press box on a healthy Stanley Cup contender.

Plus/minus is a useless stat and should not be used by anyone with a modicum of hockey knowledge. You put Kovacevic in Savard's position and he is much worse than the -1 that Savard ended up at while going against the league's top players. Meanwhile, Savard would be even better than the +11 that Kovacevic posted if he only had to face 3rd and 4th liners all season while being well rested with fresh legs due to the reduced ice time.

I like Kovacevic as a depth guy but he can not hold Savard's jock strap.

You overrate Savard, he is also a 5-6-7 guy on a Cup contender. In fact he was, on TB I believe.
Think value my friend, value, and then do what I do pretend Kovacevic can speak french, it helps.

Savard's days are numbered in Montreal.
Remember, this started with should we trade Matheson, and I said, not yet, deal Savard, and move on....

So, we will agree to disagree.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

You overrate Savard, he is also a 5-6-7 guy on a Cup contender. In fact he was, on TB I believe.
Think value my friend, value, and then do what I do pretend Kovacevic can speak french, it helps.

Savard's days are numbered in Montreal.
Remember, this started with should we trade Matheson, and I said, not yet, deal Savard, and move on....

So, we will agree to disagree.

I was specifically talking value and a legitimate 5/6 on a Cup winner who was a legitimate 2nd pairing dman on most teams at 3.5 M is better value than a player who can barely stay in the lineup on a team that has now finished with the 5th worst record for the two years that he has been here even if he is making peanuts. Let's not forget that the Lightning paid a steep price to acquire Savard and Savard turned down offers for more money to play in Montreal which is absolute evidence that he is a great value relative to his salary especially when there is a unanimous sentiment that he has been very good for us.

If Kovacevec had equal value to Savard then he would have been traded in a heart beat at the deadline.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

No one gonna pile up 63 points and a much needed vet leader on the team. Matheson is a keeper for his production, leadership and very affordable salary.

Even if the return looks like Dach 2.0?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

You overrate Savard, he is also a 5-6-7 guy on a Cup contender. In fact he was, on TB I believe.
Think value my friend, value, and then do what I do pretend Kovacevic can speak french, it helps.

Savard's days are numbered in Montreal.
Remember, this started with should we trade Matheson, and I said, not yet, deal Savard, and move on....

So, we will agree to disagree.

Savard would bring little in return. He's older and doesn't have sexy stats like Matheson to impress other teams fans in a trade. The value of Savard is being a good partner for a young D, the steady D who keep the fortress when the young one is trying something. A good mentor too. Look at Savard ; he looks like an huge teddy bear and that's what he is. Everybody loves him and he helped Xhekaj, Strubble and many others. They all gained experience pairing with him. So his value for the team is higher than just his pts and stats.

Matheson is a real valuable D in a possible trade. But losing him would hurt the PP and the show on the ice. A large part of the fans might complain. It's a tough decision. I would agree only if the return is great. If not, he's a keeper.

 

[Rapala]

Savard was a great signing at 3.5 million as he is a well above average defender and a legitimate piece to a Stanley Cup contender. Kovacevic is adequately paid for a #6/#7 D who is in the press box on a healthy Stanley Cup contender.

Plus/minus is a useless stat and should not be used by anyone with a modicum of hockey knowledge. You put Kovacevic in Savard's position and he is much worse than the -1 that Savard ended up at while going against the league's top players. Meanwhile, Savard would be even better than the +11 that Kovacevic posted if he only had to face 3rd and 4th liners all season while being well rested with fresh legs due to the reduced ice time.

Are we now going to argue that Pezzetta's +4 is evidence that he is better defensively than Suzuki who was a -14 lol. They are not even in the same stratosphere yet there is a huge gap in favour of Pezzetta when it comes to +/-

I like Kovacevic as a depth guy but he can not hold Savard's jock strap.

Not saying that you do not have a modicum of hockey knowledge.....just that you should not use this particular argument.

Plus minus is not a useless stat. Every stat out there could be argued against because none of them are perfect.
It is however a huge indicator things aren't going as well as they should be.
Any hockey fan with a modicum of knowledge knows this.
Saying +/- is useless is like saying GF/GA is useless.

Suzuki would be the first to admit his line has to get on the positive side of the +/- equation.
Plus minus is actually a team stat and units of five consistently losing the +/- battle are not winning many hockey games.
It actually becomes more important in a 7 game series where it's much easier to see which lines and which pairings are winning or losing games.
There is a reason it's being tracked you know.

 

[26Mats]

I agree with OP.

Keeping a flawed D at his highest possible value is playing with the Josh Anderson fire.

That said, we do need to get appropriate value for him.

I'm not sure how high Matheson's value is now.

Just like I questioned how high Anderson's value was last year. I'm not convinced it was ever a 1st with no retention.

I'm not sure Matheson's trade value isn't a 2nd right now.

At any rate, I think having Lane on a second pair will take the pressure off of Matheson to be the man offensively. He can hopefully focus on playing more of a two way game, plus he'll have Guhle next to him, who is good defensively. Maybe he'll have a higher trade value after next season. And Maybe Mailloux will be ready to take over for him next to Guhle for 2025-26.

 

[1909]

Even if the return looks like Dach 2.0?

So far Dach has played a handful of games for the Habs. Let's wait a bit to see how productive (and healthy) he's gonna be after having lost so many games since his arrival in the NHL. Romanov would finally have been more useful to the Habs than Dach the last two seasons.

There is nothing wrong with Matheson. Just cut his ice time to more realistic level.

 

[Shred]

I think if we elect to trade some defensemen this summer it will likely be sell high candidates. I don't think Hughes is very eager to throw away a Justin Barron, for example, just to free a roster spot. Other option is a quantity for quality deal but that is less likely imo even if it could be preferable, depending on who we have to sell high. I don't think any of our defensemen are untouchable for what it's worth. Build around Suzuki and Slafkovsky.

 

[ReHabs]

I think we should keep Matheson into next season — at least until the wheels fall off our playoff hunt.

Making the playoffs with this roster is more important than picking up what I assume would be no more than a sub-top prospect (of which we have plenty) and a 20th OA or later pick.

With that said, I reject the “leader in the room” argument wholesale. Firstly, if you can’t trade away players with character then what do you expect to get in exchange for players who explicitly lack character? The only reason a team would want him is because he has good character and good skills combined. Secondly, what is the value of his leadership removed from his skills? The intangibles thing is always a specious argument imo. Obviously you want professional and high-character players at all times — but so do your trading partners. Your desire and their desire to have high-character players should cancel themselves out.

The question remaining is if your roster can withstand the loss of the player and still chug along on the expected trajectory. In this case I think if we expect to play meaningful hockey into April, we shouldn’t trade Matheson.

Now Savard on the other hand, I think we can afford to “sell high” if there is demand.

 

[StCaufield]

But low sell high aka trade everybody who’s in their prime and have a revolving door of zero playoffs

Ive bee saying we need to trade Matheson for a year now. Not only are we selling high, were also selling from a position of strength, the LD position being the deepest in the organisation, with Guhle playing the top pair role all year.

Ghule is playing for team IR every year so maybe we just trade him since we’re talking about unpopular opinions

 

[Rapala]

I'm not sure how high Matheson's value is now.

Just like I questioned how high Anderson's value was last year. I'm not convinced it was ever a 1st with no retention.

I'm not sure Matheson's trade value isn't a 2nd right now.

At any rate, I think having Lane on a second pair will take the pressure off of Matheson to be the man offensively. He can hopefully focus on playing more of a two way game, plus he'll have Guhle next to him, who is good defensively. Maybe he'll have a higher trade value after next season. And Maybe Mailloux will be ready to take over for him next to Guhle for 2025-26.

People think we can trade Matheson as a top pairing guy and a 60 point Dman.
Buyers however will look at him as a second pairing guy and a 40 point Dman.
Could we fleece someone probably not.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

So far Dach has played a handful of games for the Habs. Let's wait a bit to see how productive (and healthy) he's gonna be after having lost so many games since his arrival in the NHL. Romanov would finally have been more useful to the Habs than Dach the last two seasons.

There is nothing wrong with Matheson. Just cut his ice time to more realistic level.

I was thinking of an healthy Dach of course. So far Dach injuries are bad luck.

 

[Miller Time]

The intangibles thing is always a specious argument imo.

From the outside, this argument always seems legit... But for those who know, it reflects a lack of understanding what cultures of excellence are really about.

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't make it specious.

Really no different than what the team, and some fans, recognized in Slaf, but so many others missed completely.

Just because something isn't easily measured or quantified, doesn't mean it isn't significant.

Fortunately, we finally have a management group that knows, and has thick enough skin to ignore the peanut gallery & all it's ill informed ramblings

 

[Mrb1p]

From the outside, this argument always seems legit... But for those who know, it reflects a lack of understanding what cultures of excellence are really about.

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't make it specious.

Really no different than what the team, and some fans, recognized in Slaf, but so many others missed completely.

Just because something isn't easily measured or quantified, doesn't mean it isn't significant.

Fortunately, we finally have a management group that knows, and has thick enough skin to ignore the peanut gallery & all it's ill informed ramblings

Nothing says being a leader like being the worse defenseman on your team at 30 because you want your little gimme points, lol.

 

[GrandBison]

It's time to trade Armia. Anderson will have a better season next year.

Edit: And we know it's impossible for both to be good at the same time.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Until the kids are truly ready you can't trade Mike Matheson

Yes you can, and yes you should.

 

[Tyson]

Yes you can, and yes you should.

Opinions vary, ain't that grand?

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Opinions vary, ain't that grand?

What's going to happen if we trade him before our young guys are ready? Our D will suck and we'll be a shitty team?

What happens if we keep him?

Our D will suck and we'll be a shitty team.

 

[Miller Time]

Nothing says being a leader like being the worse defenseman on your team at 30 because you want your little gimme points, lol.

Nothing says superficial assessment like

We get it, you've got a weird obsession with Matheson, move on already