Yeah they cut out the (mostly/all CHLers) re-entry for more money loophole when they went to all ELCs for guys entering North American Pro following the 2004-05 Lockout. A lot of guys were nearly not signed and thus re-entry draft eligibles: Brad Richards is one who comes to mind, the Lightning were a tire fire at the time, pretty cheap, low budget organization, and that got to the 11th hour before he was signed. That signing obviously resulted in a Cup.
How AI is helping sports teams scout star players
Algorithms are transforming the way athletes are evaluated.www.nbcnews.com
Not a first rounder, but I remember this pre-2018 Draft article about teams using AI. One guy's algorithm had Sean Durzi as a top 40 pick for 2017 but he went undrafted (Durzi was ranked #124 on Central's NA ranking). As I remember it, Durzi went into the following season with a chip on his shoulder and made some on/off ice adjustments. TSN had Durzi #48 for its 2018 draft ranking and he'd go #52 to Toronto.
View attachment 837862
Mikko Koskinen got drafted in his fourth and final year of draft eligibility at #31 in 2009. Magnus Hellberg was taken #38 in his third year (2011). It was amusing since the draft board wasn't digital until the following year. As I remember it, that Hellberg panel remained blank for a good 10-15 minutes.
Carolina had been planning on taking Pyotr Kochetkov with #28 in 2019 but were surprised when Ryan Suzuki was available. They'd end up taking Kochetkov (3rd year) with their next pick #36.
Not sure if he was just under the radar, but Brandon Montour went in the 2nd round in his third year of draft eligibility. He had played his original draft years in lower league and then had a big USHL rookie season.
Maybe not exactly what the OP wanted, but a couple guys who were drafted and re-entered knowing they'd go higher:
Scott Parker (NJD 3rd round 1996 - COL 1st round 1998): Parker was drafted as a bruiser/fighter but potted 30 goals in his D+2 season. The thought was that he'd be like a Chris Simon type enforcer who could take a regular shift and chip in 15-20 goals. Parker was asking the Devils for first round money and Lou declined. Meanwhile Colorado was looking for a Simon replacement after trading him in 1996.
Kyle Wanvig (BOS 3rd round 1999 - MIN 2nd round 2001): Wanvig scored 12 goals in his draft season then exploded for 55 goals in his D+2 season. He wanted first round money and Boston wasn't interested.
Boston tried to trade him to Toronto just as his draft rights were about to expire. But Wanvig's agent wasn't able to fax a copy of the signed contract by the deadline, so the trade was nixed. Wanvig went #36 to Minnesota.
Undrafted, reentered 1st-rounders
- Thread starter CaptainShark
- Start date
It was before my time, but even Nicklas Lidstrom was drafted in his second year due to the rule about first time European only being eligible for the first three rounds. But there were only four Europeans taken in the first three rounds in 1988.
But it was interesting to learn that Knonwall actively decided not to enter the 1999 Draft as opposed to having gone undrafted.
But that was at a time when you could opt out of the draft, right? I assume Heatley did so. Iirc, Paul Stastny did the same, so he wasn't selected until 2005. I guess that possibility was removed with the new CBA in 2005.
Edit: I was WAY late to the party
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I love butterfly effect things like this: Kronwall's simple decision to opt out set the events in motion for him to go to Detroit in 2000, thus "You Got Kronwalled" became one of the greatest crowd chants, the 2008 Cup, etc. Events for years change if Kronwall simply stays in the 1999 Draft/if there was no opt-out ability back then
Facing Off: Q&A with Niklas Kronwall, aka Baby Lidstrom
Who is the next Nicklas Lidstrom? David Amber finds out that it might be fellow Detroit D-man Niklas Kronwall.www.espn.com
I didn't know Kronwall skipped his first potential draft year. Central Scouting had Kronwall ranked #28 among Europeans in 1999.
The DiPietro one is a fun thought exercise too. Part of the reason he didn't stay in the 2001 Draft was the fear that he'd be the third goalie taken behind Dan Blackburn and Pascal Leclaire. Islanders then take Marian Gaborik at #1 (apparently they preferred him over Heatley) and then they probably keep Roberto Luongo for another year? Maybe the Rangers take DiPietro instead of Dan Blackburn in 2001? Blackburn then isn't thrown to the wolves as a teenager if he's drafted elsewhere? But perhaps his shoulder/nerve injury was unavoidable?
Reading through the 1996 THN Draft Preview and they said Jaroslav Svejkovsky went undrafted in 1995 due to injuries. Looks like he was played most of that draft season in a Czech junior league. He'd play in the WHL in 1995-96 and scored 58 goals and 101 points. Svejkovsky ended up going #17 in 1996.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
The Canes were ready to take Kochetkov as a D+2 overage first rounder until Suzuki was still there late in the first.
Was also easier to be noticed during covid when he was actually playing games. Scored a lot of goals before the draft
Reading through some old articles and it's interesting to see how the rules have changed.
1987 - There was rule change where first time eligibles (not just Europeans) could only be taken in the first three rounds.
1992 - Returned back to an open draft where all draft eligibles could be taken in any round.
1995 - All Europeans still had to be drafted before entering the league, so there'd still be a handful of guys in their mid-late 20s (sometimes 30s) being drafted. NCAA guys now had to wait an extra year.
2005 - Eligibility for European trained players was adjusted to four times (born before September 16) / three times (born after September 15). Fun to imagine where a 23 year old Artemi Panarin might have hypothetically gone in the 2015 Draft. NCAA guys no longer had to wait the extra year.
1987 - There was rule change where first time eligibles (not just Europeans) could only be taken in the first three rounds.
1992 - Returned back to an open draft where all draft eligibles could be taken in any round.
1995 - All Europeans still had to be drafted before entering the league, so there'd still be a handful of guys in their mid-late 20s (sometimes 30s) being drafted. NCAA guys now had to wait an extra year.
2005 - Eligibility for European trained players was adjusted to four times (born before September 16) / three times (born after September 15). Fun to imagine where a 23 year old Artemi Panarin might have hypothetically gone in the 2015 Draft. NCAA guys no longer had to wait the extra year.
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montreal
Go Habs Go
Anders Lee wasn't drafted in his 1st year and should have gone in the 1st round, not really what you were asking but close. I never yelled at my tv so much on draft day when he kept falling. What a steal by NYI.
Lee had some NCAA football offers which apparently scared off teams in 2008 (and maybe in 2009 too). Similar stories to Jamie Benn having his interests split between hockey and baseball which didn't help his draft stock.
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Not a recent one, but Trevor Halverson was undrafted in 1989+1990 and went in the first in 1991. He went from 8 goals in his original draft season to 22 to 59.
Similar story to Shawn Antoski. 3 goals in his draft year to 6 to 25. Ended up going right before Keith Tkachuk, Martin Brodeur, and Bryan Smolinski.
Looks like Olie Kolzig could have been drafted in 1988 but he only played in 15 WHL games. Then he went in the first in 1989. Looking through the draft preview and it's amusing seeing Dafoe/Kolzig being listed together. They'd both be drafted by the Caps and ended up being the best men at each others' wedding.
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rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
GrumpyKoala
Registered User
- Aug 11, 2020
- 2,907
- 3,115
How AI is helping sports teams scout star players
Algorithms are transforming the way athletes are evaluated.
Not a first rounder, but I remember this pre-2018 Draft article about teams using AI. One guy's algorithm had Sean Durzi as a top 40 pick for 2017 but he went undrafted (Durzi was ranked #124 on Central's NA ranking). As I remember it, Durzi went into the following season with a chip on his shoulder and made some on/off ice adjustments. TSN had Durzi #48 for its 2018 draft ranking and he'd go #52 to Toronto.
View attachment 837862
Mikko Koskinen got drafted in his fourth and final year of draft eligibility at #31 in 2009. Magnus Hellberg was taken #38 in his third year (2011). It was amusing since the draft board wasn't digital until the following year. As I remember it, that Hellberg panel remained blank for a good 10-15 minutes.
Carolina had been planning on taking Pyotr Kochetkov with #28 in 2019 but were surprised when Ryan Suzuki was available. They'd end up taking Kochetkov (3rd year) with their next pick #36.
Not sure if he was just under the radar, but Brandon Montour went in the 2nd round in his third year of draft eligibility. He had played his original draft years in lower league and then had a big USHL rookie season.
Maybe not exactly what the OP wanted, but a couple guys who were drafted and re-entered knowing they'd go higher:
Scott Parker (NJD 3rd round 1996 - COL 1st round 1998): Parker was drafted as a bruiser/fighter but potted 30 goals in his D+2 season. The thought was that he'd be like a Chris Simon type enforcer who could take a regular shift and chip in 15-20 goals. Parker was asking the Devils for first round money and Lou declined. Meanwhile Colorado was looking for a Simon replacement after trading him in 1996.
Kyle Wanvig (BOS 3rd round 1999 - MIN 2nd round 2001): Wanvig scored 12 goals in his draft season then exploded for 55 goals in his D+2 season. He wanted first round money and Boston wasn't interested.
Boston tried to trade him to Toronto just as his draft rights were about to expire. But Wanvig's agent wasn't able to fax a copy of the signed contract by the deadline, so the trade was nixed. Wanvig went #36 to Minnesota.
Thanks to remind me we passed on Gibson for Musil
Not a first rounder, but Radko Gudas went undrafted in 2008 and 2009 while playing in the Czech Republic. He was invited to the Kings prospect camp in the summer 2009 and made a good impression. Gudas then played in the WHL in 2009-10 and got more NHL attention.
Tampa would take him 66th in 2010. A few minutes later, LA traded #79 for a 2012 3rd. So I always wondered if LA might have had that pick earmarked for Gudas. Then again, LA had 29 draft picks between 2007-09 (plus Martin Jones as an undrafted free agent), so they might have been trying to space out the number of ELCs.
web.archive.org
Speaking of Jones, there's that summer time window where a North American trained player with remaining draft eligibility can sign as a free agent. Jones signed with LA rather than go back into the 2009 draft pool. Phil Myers went undrafted in 2015 but signed with Philly after a good summer camp. This article mentioned that Myers maybe would have cracked the 1st in 2016 if he hadn't already signed.
Tampa would take him 66th in 2010. A few minutes later, LA traded #79 for a 2012 3rd. So I always wondered if LA might have had that pick earmarked for Gudas. Then again, LA had 29 draft picks between 2007-09 (plus Martin Jones as an undrafted free agent), so they might have been trying to space out the number of ELCs.
Prospect Update: Myers overcomes injuries this season
A look at defenseman Philippe Myers as he heads into the QMJHL Playoffs
web.archive.org
Speaking of Jones, there's that summer time window where a North American trained player with remaining draft eligibility can sign as a free agent. Jones signed with LA rather than go back into the 2009 draft pool. Phil Myers went undrafted in 2015 but signed with Philly after a good summer camp. This article mentioned that Myers maybe would have cracked the 1st in 2016 if he hadn't already signed.
Wayne Simmonds was drafted second round in his second year of eligibility, but his story is phenomenal.
As a 15 year was a AA player. With a handful of players leaving for Junior he was able to go to AAA as a 16 year old. Was noticed and went Junior A for his 17 year old season, not drafted in the NHL. Further noticed though, he was drafted in the OHL in the 6th round in his NHL draft eligible year. Then in his second year of NHL eligibility he went in the second round to the Kings. He played a second year of Junior, then jumped straight to the NHL.
There may be someone like that, but the fact he jumped almost a major level every year, and could have if he was AHL eligible in his second junior year, was phenomenal.
As a 15 year was a AA player. With a handful of players leaving for Junior he was able to go to AAA as a 16 year old. Was noticed and went Junior A for his 17 year old season, not drafted in the NHL. Further noticed though, he was drafted in the OHL in the 6th round in his NHL draft eligible year. Then in his second year of NHL eligibility he went in the second round to the Kings. He played a second year of Junior, then jumped straight to the NHL.
There may be someone like that, but the fact he jumped almost a major level every year, and could have if he was AHL eligible in his second junior year, was phenomenal.
Dion TheFluff
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2015
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- 3,348
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Oh, shit! Not familiar with the workings of that CBA, hockey fandom started in 2005 lol.
Was it like the NFL/NBA where you had to make the decision to declare?
CanadienShark
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2012
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Due to not playing much at all, you could argue Mailloux was drafted in the 1st round in his D-1 year.
/S
/S
Yeah players had to submit paperwork, although aside from the NCAA guys I don't think there was any repercussions if you declared and went undrafted. This thread was a fun excuse for me to go through some old issues on The Hockey News archive.
For some reason they added a stipulation in 1995 that you had to wait an extra year to get drafted in order to play in the NCAA. That was removed by 2005. And then I stumbled on the case where Nik Kronwall actively decided not to put his name in for the 1999 Draft because he thought he could go higher in 2000 with a good season. That sort of reasoning makes more sense in the NFL/NBA, but I suppose in those days NHL 1st rounders could demand a bit more money than if they were late picks.
Rick DiPietro was probably the most notable guy who "opted in" and gave up his NCAA eligibility. DiPietro decided to enter the 2000 Draft something like six weeks beforehand, so he didn't appear on Central Scouting's ranking of North American goalies.
There was a goofy one in 2002, Edmonton tried to draft Slovak winger Robin Kovar but he hadn't filed his paperwork. Edmonton blamed the NHL since it had left Kovar in the list of available players. The league ruled that the pick was invalid and ended up giving Edmonton a 7th rounder the following year as compensation.
I wish I could find the link, but I found the old opt in form while looking up old CBA info:
Yeah, back in the draft in two years if you did not sign.
At least it was by a different team. Mathieu Chouinard was drafted by Ottawa 15th overall in 98, wouldn't sign with Ottawa, they then drafted him 45th overall in 2000 in his redraft .....
Anders Lee is the classic summer born, pre September 16, US kid who is draft eligible, but only a junior in HS, so unless he had accelerated (which he obviously didn't) and he told teams he was going back to HS to play football and hockey instead of go to the USHL, teams were quite likely to pass on drafting him in 2008. With no USHL sample size, you really had to do your scouting work to be confident to draft a D+2 coming out of MN HS who you had no clue if it would even translate to junior, let alone NCAA and pro. There are far more Max Gaede types of the world than Anders Lee types, so it's a bet most teams aren't willing to risk if there's no significant USHL sample size.
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That was an odd one, just seemed like a bad gamble by Boynton's agent plus some stubbornness on Washington's side. He turned down Washington's offer (925K plus signing bonus). Before they lost his rights, Washington had a trade in place to send him to Chicago contingent on him signing (presumably for pick #23). But Boynton turned down a similar deal with the Blackhawks in order to re-enter the draft. Washington ended up with pick #37 as compensation from the league for not being able to sign Boynton.
Boston took him #21. Boynton then got hurt in camp and learned he had diabetes. He'd end up signing for 800K without any bonuses.
After I heard the story from Chouinard's side that ordeal made more sense. He was collateral damage from Ottawa's front office turmoil.
June 27, 1998 - Ottawa drafts Chouinard
June 29, 1998 - Ottawa GM Pierre Gauthier resigned, ended up taking the GM gig in Anaheim shortly thereafter. Rick Dudley named replacement.
June 8, 1999 - Dudley resigned to become Tampa GM. Marshall Johnston named replacement.
Chouinard said he had minimal contact with the team as his rights were about to expire on June 1, 2000. Chouinard said the team presented him with a lowball offer and refused to negotiate. Reading another article where Johnston said Chouinard's agent asked for too much although conceded that the Senators were limited by their budget. Chouinard felt disrespected so he went back into the draft.
Ottawa got the 45th pick as compensation for not signing Chouinard. Then comically they used that pick to take him. According to Chouinard they offered less than their original offer and he had to accept it in order to get his pro career going.
There were some similar cases in those days where a team would take the same player twice after a contract dispute. Devils took Pierre Dagenais in 1996 and 1998, ditto Islanders with Evgeny Korolev. Anaheim took Tim Brent in 2002 and 2004.
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