Prospect Info: Under 25 y/o Sens Players Ranking #5

[Micklebot]

Since Stone left Ottawa

White 10-0-3-3 15sog

His numbers were inflated...

Obviously Stone helps anyone he plays with, so there will be an impact, but Stone's on a 55 pts pace since leaving Ottawa, were his numbers inflated?

I think I'll wait to see a bigger sample for both to judge. Ottawa not only moved Stone, but it's top 3 offensive forwards, losing all three means the remaining offensive guys on the team get all the tougher shutdown matchups and are game planned against.

 

[JD1]

Brown is a guy that has struggled with injuries at the worst possible times. He also has a father that kept him out of the gym because he didn't believe in it for kids.

I believe Mann recently said that Brown has been the best player on the team during the recent playoff push. If it wasn't Mann that said it, it was someone in team mgnt, can't remember who.

This is a Brown and White issue. Brown for me.

If Brown and White are your 5th and 6th best players a couple years out i think we'll be in good shape. Adding Green for veteran leadership would help.

 

[Xspyrit]

wow can’t believe White will win this despite the 20 y/o rookie season Logan Brown is having. He got injured twice while he had to adapt to pro hockey and still managed to cement himself as the best Center on the team.

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats 2018-2019

Of course it’s not all about points but in Brown’s case, it’s in the way he does it. He has a high level of skill and has shown many ways to get on the score sheet.

White is nice and is going to be a key player, but like I said earlier, it’s like voting Fisher over Spezza (as young players). I’m not saying they are exactly comparable, that’s not the point. High end playmaker (who can also score) vs 2nd line 2-way beast.

Brown might not be as blue chip as Spezza was but White might never be as strong as Fisher was

In the exercise of this poll where we’re doing an INTERNAL RE-DRAFT, I’m picking Brown without even thinking. SURPRISED THE MAJORITY WOULDN’T. I literally said in the OP « who would you draft BPA »

Im sure if you do that exercise with the 31 GMs, Brown would win this.

 

[Grizz MacArthur]

Colin White

 

[Sens]

Obviously Stone helps anyone he plays with, so there will be an impact, but Stone's on a 55 pts pace since leaving Ottawa, were his numbers inflated?

In six games the Pacioretty-Stasnet-Stone line has combined for 5G 15Pts 49sog...

 

[Sens]

Pageau had a 43 point season with Stone
Without him 33 and 29 are his best

 

[JD1]

Pageau had a 43 point season with Stone
Without him 33 and 29 are his best

With Stone it was an offence line back in the day

Away from Stone, Pageau has had more of a shut down role. While Stone definitely elevates the numbers for guys playing with him, in this instance i dont think that is a fair comparison

 

[Slack]

Went with Brown's ceiling over White's floor.

 

[Sens]

I guess that’s fair... I don’t see white as more then a 40 point player, not much creativity, gets his production from being a North-South player

Important middle six forward

But Brown has the ability to be Ryan Johansen... no way White should be viewed as more valuable

In fact I’d argue Brown is the most important player in the entire organization... his development is pivotal in being able to roll out an offensive top six line... other then White we probably don’t have another center capable of cracking 40 points

 

[Mr Hat]

wow can’t believe White will win this despite the 20 y/o rookie season Logan Brown is having. He got injured twice while he had to adapt to pro hockey and still managed to cement himself as the best Center on the team.

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats 2018-2019

Of course it’s not all about points but in Brown’s case, it’s in the way he does it. He has a high level of skill and has shown many ways to get on the score sheet.

White is nice and is going to be a key player, but like I said earlier, it’s like voting Fisher over Spezza (as young players). I’m not saying they are exactly comparable, that’s not the point. High end playmaker (who can also score) vs 2nd line 2-way beast.

Brown might not be as blue chip as Spezza was but White might never be as strong as Fisher was

In the exercise of this poll where we’re doing an INTERNAL RE-DRAFT, I’m picking Brown without even thinking. SURPRISED THE MAJORITY WOULDN’T. I literally said in the OP « who would you draft BPA »

Im sure if you do that exercise with the 31 GMs, Brown would win this.

Its close, neither look like a superstar but both should have long careers in the top 6. White's progress has been much more linear than Browns. He's also much faster and I'll take speed over size 10/10. The Jamie Benn size factor is somewhat irrelevant in the new NHL. White is only 1 year older, Brown is 21 right now...

 

[Micklebot]

I guess that’s fair... I don’t see white as more then a 40 point player, not much creativity, gets his production from being a North-South player

Important middle six forward

But Brown has the ability to be Ryan Johansen... no way White should be viewed as more valuable

In fact I’d argue Brown is the most important player in the entire organization... his development is pivotal in being able to roll out an offensive top six line... other then White we probably don’t have another center capable of cracking 40 points

Fisher was the definition of a north south guy, and was more than a 40 pts player. I see more creativity in White; much better puck distributor imo.

As for Stone's line getting lots of pts, sure; Statsny and Pacioretty are far better linemates than Tkachuck and Tierney.

 

[Xspyrit]

no way White should be viewed as more valuable.

This. I think in the hockey world, Brown is seen as the best asset comfortably.

Its close, neither look like a superstar but both should have long careers in the top 6. White's progress has been much more linear than Browns. He's also much faster and I'll take speed over size 10/10. The Jamie Benn size factor is somewhat irrelevant in the new NHL. White is only 1 year older, Brown is 21 right now...

Yeah, Brown is just 1 year younger but I'd like to see what he could do a good chunk of games playing with Tkachuk and Stone. It would actually have been the perfect linemates for him

Dzingel-Duchene-Batherson
Tkachuk-Brown-Stone
Ryan-Pageau-White
Balcers-Tierney-Chlapik
Paul

Dang what could have been

That being said, Brown is not slow at all, very good skating for his size, it's just that it looks slow on TV because he's so tall (Spezza effect). You say you take speed over size but what Brown has is really not just "size", but a great shot and incredible vision and playmaking skills. White is very smart player too but Brown has the potential to be a 1st line forward, White not.

 

[Sweatred]

Off the board.. going with Duclair. He's done more in the league than White, Brown, Wolanin etc. I don't interpret this as a "ceiling ranking". If we play an NHL game tomorrow Duclair marginally outplays White and its not even fair to compare Brown.

 

[R2010]

There's a reason a lot of people passed on Brown and that he has continued to be a polarizing prospect. He has not been a world beater in his last years in junior and wasn't dominant at the WJC - by contrast White one of the top 3 players for a gold medal WJC team. Brown's having a good end to the year in the AHL so here's hoping he turns into a top 6 forward. There's just too many question marks about his compete, commitment to defense and injury history to rank him above White. If you look at the prospect people they all seem to say that Brown is not consistently viewed as a player who will reach his potential. Maybe a good year off the ice will change that but the Spezza/Fisher comparison is way off. White reminds me a bit of Turris whereby he's needed some more time to thicken up a bit - always has really good hockey sense but strength and winning puck battles didn't start until this year.

 

[Sens]

Brown had 27 points in 19 payoff games to end his junior career and is almost PPG to begin his AHL career

His last 27GP 8G 18A 26Pts 52sog

Not bad for a kid who turned 21 a week ago

He’s crushed the last year... sound unappreciated to me

 

[Cloud]

going against the grain...thinking long term. Docker could be very good.

 

[bert]

There's a reason a lot of people passed on Brown and that he has continued to be a polarizing prospect. He has not been a world beater in his last years in junior and wasn't dominant at the WJC - by contrast White one of the top 3 players for a gold medal WJC team. Brown's having a good end to the year in the AHL so here's hoping he turns into a top 6 forward. There's just too many question marks about his compete, commitment to defense and injury history to rank him above White. If you look at the prospect people they all seem to say that Brown is not consistently viewed as a player who will reach his potential. Maybe a good year off the ice will change that but the Spezza/Fisher comparison is way off. White reminds me a bit of Turris whereby he's needed some more time to thicken up a bit - always has really good hockey sense but strength and winning puck battles didn't start until this year.

Well thought out and very accurate post. I hate the Fisher comparisons for White, I dont see it at all he has way more hockey sense but isnt nearly as physically strong a player. I dont understand why people seem to think that Brown has so much more development then White does when he is only a year older. White just keeps getting better and is a way more versitile player.

Brown is not a Spezza level talent either, he is very skilled but he doesnt have close to the same pedigree and isnt nearly as strong a skater.

When Both were drafted Brown was way higher than white in potential, then white comes into the league and now white is splitting the vote. Probably because of recency bias.

Brown never dropped off in offensive production. As he went to the next season or even to the next league he remained a star. White was a lower first rounder because he produced less offensively. White has done well here and will mature, but once Brown is here he is all we will be talking about (aside from batherson and tkachuk, good team starting here).

Not really the case at all White has been consistently better in comparison to Brown every season and comes from a much deeper draft.

 

[bert]

wow can’t believe White will win this despite the 20 y/o rookie season Logan Brown is having. He got injured twice while he had to adapt to pro hockey and still managed to cement himself as the best Center on the team.

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats 2018-2019

Of course it’s not all about points but in Brown’s case, it’s in the way he does it. He has a high level of skill and has shown many ways to get on the score sheet.

White is nice and is going to be a key player, but like I said earlier, it’s like voting Fisher over Spezza (as young players). I’m not saying they are exactly comparable, that’s not the point. High end playmaker (who can also score) vs 2nd line 2-way beast.

Brown might not be as blue chip as Spezza was but White might never be as strong as Fisher was

In the exercise of this poll where we’re doing an INTERNAL RE-DRAFT, I’m picking Brown without even thinking. SURPRISED THE MAJORITY WOULDN’T. I literally said in the OP « who would you draft BPA »

Im sure if you do that exercise with the 31 GMs, Brown would win this.

Id be willing to bet alot of money on this if it were actually possible.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Well thought out and very accurate post. I hate the Fisher comparisons for White, I dont see it at all he has way more hockey sense but isnt nearly as physically strong a player. I dont understand why people seem to think that Brown has so much more development then White does when he is only a year older. White just keeps getting better and is a way more versitile player.

Brown is not a Spezza level talent either, he is very skilled but he doesnt have close to the same pedigree and isnt nearly as strong a skater.

Brown simple has more offensive potential than White. He has much better hands, vision and playmaking ability, packed into a 6'6, 220lb frame.

This gives him more potential going forward. Doesn't mean he'll reach it, but it's pretty clear watching both players that Brown is a tier above in terms of talent and offensive upside.

Not really the case at all White has been consistently better in comparison to Brown every season and comes from a much deeper draft.

White had the better 18YR old season for sure, but there's definitely a case to be made that Brown had the better 19YR old season with 48P in 32GP in the OHL, compared to White's sub-PPG sophomore season.

Brown has clearly had the more productive first AHL season with 35P in 43GP (most coming lately) versus White's 27P in 47GP last year.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Pageau had a 43 point season with Stone
Without him 33 and 29 are his best

Guy turned Zack Smith into a 25G scorer for god's sake.

I think people aren't taking this into consideration enough. White and Tkachuk's numbers have clearly been inflated from playing with an elite level talent all year.

 

[Brannstorm]

Well thought out and very accurate post. I hate the Fisher comparisons for White, I dont see it at all he has way more hockey sense but isnt nearly as physically strong a player. I dont understand why people seem to think that Brown has so much more development then White does when he is only a year older. White just keeps getting better and is a way more versitile player.

Brown is not a Spezza level talent either, he is very skilled but he doesnt have close to the same pedigree and isnt nearly as strong a skater.



Not really the case at all White has been consistently better in comparison to Brown every season and comes from a much deeper draft.

I wasn't lying, Brown was much more highly touted offensively than White, and he continued to evolve to almost a 2 ppg game player in the OHL and then almost ppg rookie year Belleville.

White didn't do that 47 games played in belleville last year 27 points and 11 goals.

Brown 43 games played 35 points 12 goals. + 12.

Also as reference to your above post. The only reason Brown didn't dominate at the world juniors is because he got injured. He was penciled to be thre 1st line centre that year. You can hold the injury (and maybe two more) against him if you want. But my goodness this guy can put that puck in the net.

I like White too, I think he will be dominate as that 2 way force. I just see Brown as scoring more once he gets to the league because of his numbers, not a bad 1-2 punch. Jamie Mclennan would say 1A 1B centres lol.

 

[dumbdick]

This is jbd. Shocked he has so few votes here.

 

[bert]

I wasn't lying, Brown was much more highly touted offensively than White, and he continued to evolve to almost a 2 ppg game player in the OHL and then almost ppg rookie year Belleville.

White didn't do that 47 games played in belleville last year 27 points and 11 goals.

Brown 43 games played 35 points 12 goals. + 12.

Also as reference to your above post. The only reason Brown didn't dominate at the world juniors is because he got injured. He was penciled to be thre 1st line centre that year. You can hold the injury (and maybe two more) against him if you want. But my goodness this guy can put that puck in the net.

I like White too, I think he will be dominate as that 2 way force. I just see Brown as scoring more once he gets to the league because of his numbers, not a bad 1-2 punch. Jamie Mclennan would say 1A 1B centres lol.

Belleville was horrible last year and White didnt have Batherson to play with, I really dont see the difference in production that different considering these factors in the AHL.

Injuries and work ethic also do matter and i take that into consideration when I evaluate these players as well. I also take into consideration Whites ability to show up in big games, he scored the O.T winner in the U 18's and lead the USA in goals when they won it all. He is a gamer. I do think that if he maxes out yes Brown has the higher ceiling from a skill level perspective, however the chances of that happening are very slim compared to knowing White is going to be a really good two way player for a long time. He is the type of player you win with, the chances of that happening for Brown are far less likely in my opinion.

 

[Brannstorm]

Belleville was horrible last year and White didnt have Batherson to play with, I really dont see the difference in production that different considering these factors in the AHL.

Injuries and work ethic also do matter and i take that into consideration when I evaluate these players as well. I do think that if he maxes out yes Brown has the higher ceiling, however the chances of that happening are very slim compared to knowing White is going to be a really good two way player for a long time. He is the type of player you win with, the chances of that happening for Brown are far less likely in my opinion.

Come on, this is a bunch of assumptions and qualifications based on your opinion.

And that opinion is seemingly Brown is not good because he will never be good (although he is doing well now and has been good historically) and because you are sure he hasn't been good. Is that it?

 

[bert]

Come on, this is a bunch of assumptions and qualifications based on your opinion.

And that opinion is seemingly Brown is not good because he will never be good because although he has been good you were sure he hadn't. Is that it?

Assumptions? I used facts and statistics, Brown gets hurt alot and has a reputation as a not very hard worker. I have heard it from direct sources. I hope he can start to get in better shape so he doesnt get hurt so often, I want him to do well and develop into a top 6 center like the rest of us. I am basing my opinion on everything that I have seen and heard. I dont doubt Browns talent for a second its the rest of it that worries me. Big players with injury history is historically a thing to be worried about. I also have seen White perform well for two straight seasons and he can play in all situations, his extra gear he has this year is exciting, the league is based on speed and hockey sense and he has both. I value those skills and his versatility a tremendous amount.