GDT: UFC 229: Khabib vs. McGregor

[pistolpete11]

Part of it's his personality, for sure.

He also had a weird "fight" with Chiesa at the press conference, then there was the questionable finish where you couldn't tell if Chiesa tapped. He then lost to Ferguson AND tried to hide staph infection, which rubbed people the wrong way. Then he missed weight for the Barboza fight.

Just not a ton of things that get people excited for him.

The Chiesa controversy was the ref (Mario?) thought he passed out, not whether he tapped, right? Either way, I thought that was blown out of proportion. Lee was kicking his ass and I think it was only a matter of time until he did pass out/tap. Chiesa, though...talk about a grating personality.

But yeah, Lee hasn't had a breakout moment yet. When I think of Lee, my first thoughts are him pouting like a child after Tony submitted him and then the little chicken dance he did after getting head kicked by Barboza. Not the best memories for a fighter haha

 

[m9]

The Chiesa controversy was the ref (Mario?) thought he passed out, not whether he tapped, right? Either way, I thought that was blown out of proportion. Lee was kicking his ass and I think it was only a matter of time until he did pass out/tap. Chiesa, though...talk about a grating personality.

But yeah, Lee hasn't had a breakout moment yet. When I think of Lee, my first thoughts are him pouting like a child after Tony submitted him and then the little chicken dance he did after getting head kicked by Barboza. Not the best memories for a fighter haha

Yeah sorry, you're right on Chiesa.

I think Lee is a very good fighter - I just want a bit more on that resume. A win over Iaquinta helps a bit.

 

[Rocko604]

Even putting aside merit, why would you not want Ferguson vs Khabib? That's going to be entertaining as ****.

Trust me, I want Khabib/Tony. But WME, probably doesn't. Especially after 2.4 million PPV buys. We're going to get a rematch whether we like it or not.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Khabib’s manager says Conor doesn’t deserve a rematch and his uncle said Khabib wants Tony, not a Conor rematch and he supposedly turned down $15-million.

Khabib’s a different breed. I don’t think he’s just going to go for money fights. He fights for legacy and respect and he clearly wants Tony.

 

[MaxV]

I agree. Khabib knows that he’ll face criticism for not taking the Ferguson fight, especially after it was canceled so many times. That can hurt his legacy.

Khabib-Tony needs to happen.

However, once that fight is announced, both guys need to be put into a bubble.

 

[Rocko604]

If Khabib is adamant that he doesn't want to fight Conor again, the UFC will strip him and we'll see Conor/Tony for the vacant Lightweight title.

Conor is getting another shot at that belt, one way or another.

 

[m9]

My prediction:

Conor v Nate headlines a PPV on January 19th in Boston.

Khabib v Ferguson headlines a PPV on March 2nd in Vegas.

 

[Avs_19]

I don't think so man. I really think Khabib and his father care about legacy a lot, and are ultimately driven by that more than the money. When he's done fighting he's gonna go back to Dagestan anyways and he has enough money and fame that he can pretty much take care of the next 3 generations of his blood line if he wants to. He has enough money now that he never has to fight again if he doesn't want to.

Yes, money talks, but Khabib isn't like the others.

If that's truly the case then that'd be great because I want to see the Ferguson fight next. He's also out here trying to hype up a boxing match against Floyd though. Hopefully that's just talk to keep his name in the news.

 

[1specter]

He's also out here trying to hype up a boxing match against Floyd though.

I think he was honestly just joking and taking a piss on Conor with that, I mean he looked like he was about to burst out laughing in the video 'callout'

 

[Egg]

Khabib’s a different breed. I don’t think he’s just going to go for money fights. He fights for legacy and respect and he clearly wants Tony.

Exactly. If its legacy, a McGregor fight makes zero sense.

Hes already proved he is better. A rematch to me, entails there is doubt about this or a level of respect between the combatants.

Ferguson and Khabib to me is a much better fight.

They are both relentless monsters. Both impose their will onto opponents by applying immense levels of pressure.

Khabib would struggle with Fergusons ground game, where he can bust you up good in a defensive posture.

He also pressures in the stand up, forcing you to make mistakes.

Conor is ineffective as he spends the match worrying about a take down. You lose the moment your opponent is in your head.

 

[Egg]

1. Just because Khabib dominated that fight doesn't mean he's that much more of a skilled fighter than Conor

In my opinion, he is a more complete fighter.

He can go toe to toe standup with some elite strikers, yet will destroy you on the ground.

He isn't afraid of Conor. Conor feared the take down, knowing his skill did not match up.

If you can't match your opponent at all levels or exploit their weaknesses, you don't deserve a rematch nor earned one.

 

[pistolpete11]

In my opinion, he is a more complete fighter.

He can go toe to toe standup with some elite strikers, yet will destroy you on the ground.

He isn't afraid of Conor. Conor feared the take down, knowing his skill did not match up.

If you can't match your opponent at all levels or exploit their weaknesses, you don't deserve a rematch nor earned one.

Maybe. But being a more complete fighter and not being on the same planet like you originally said are 2 drastically different things.

Khabib doesn't go toe to toe with elite strikers. He drags them to the ground and beats the living shit out of them. He caught Conor with one punch because Conor was so worried about the takedown and 'called out' Mayweather and now people are acting like he's some elite striker. He's not. If he went into a boxing or kick boxing match with guys like Conor, Barboza, even Michael Johnson, he would get destroyed.

 

[Egg]

Khabib doesn't go toe to toe with elite strikers.

Why would you, if your style is more efficient?

Stand up is a high risk game. You could take damage and get rocked. This is the UFC. Anyone can get knocked out. If you choose to brawl it out, that is.

His style on the ground has yet to even remotely be challenged.

His chances of winning on the ground are 100%. Nobody touches him on the ground.

Makes no sense why you would want to do anything else.

The fact McGregor clearly has zero answer for this to me, tells me he isn't up to par.

"Yeah well if he slugged it out..."

To me that's like any boxer frustrated at Mayweathers air tight defense stating had he opened up, they would have connected.

Why would he use anything other than his stifling defense?

Sure some punch better. Harder. Means little if you can't hit him.

McGregor is way better on foot. More elusive. Nurmagomedov was hard to hit clean, rendering his standup useless.

The skill set is worlds apart because our of his element, its curtains for McGregor.

Nurmagomedov can survive on foot.

 

[pistolpete11]

Why would you, if your style is more efficient?

Stand up is a high risk game. You could take damage and get rocked. This is the UFC. Anyone can get knocked out. If you choose to brawl it out, that is.

His style on the ground has yet to even remotely be challenged.

His chances of winning on the ground are 100%. Nobody touches him on the ground.

Makes no sense why you would want to do anything else.

The fact McGregor clearly has zero answer for this to me, tells me he isn't up to par.

"Yeah well if he slugged it out..."

To me that's like any boxer frustrated at Mayweathers air tight defense stating had he opened up, they would have connected.

Why would he use anything other than his stifling defense?

Sure some punch better. Harder. Means little if you can't hit him.

McGregor is way better on foot. More elusive. Nurmagomedov was hard to hit clean, rendering his standup useless.

The skill set is worlds apart because our of his element, its curtains for McGregor.

Nurmagomedov can survive on foot.

I never said he should. I was just replying to your comment that he stands toe to toe with elite strikers. No he doesn't. He drags them to the ground the first chance he gets because he would lose if he just stood with them. It's the smart thing to do if your Khabib and so far nobody has had an answer for it.

 

[MaxV]

Khabib’s standup has clearly improved, but it isn’t elite.

But so far, he has showed good instincts and intelligence when standing.

He isn’t aggressive, relying more on counters. He knows that there is no reason for him to go after his opponents and risk getting caught.

 

[Egg]

He drags them to the ground the first chance he gets because he would lose if he just stood with them.

I hope you do realize that the point of being the greatest in the UFC, is developing a style that will give all fighters problems.

All the greats, have this in their arsenal.

Tony Ferguson, trains in gymnastics, and uses so many different movements. It keeps his movement fluid, and unpredictable. McGregor does the same. It allows them to adapt to other fighter styles.

Most boxers move the same way, as do many trained MMA athletes. This means, all your punches and movements can easily be telegraphed.

I could go on and on.

Nurmagomedov has a style that neutralizes the striking game of any striker in the UFC.

He doesn't need to go toe to toe with you. He knows he'll destroy you on the ground.

The whole point of a striker, is imposing their will, and keeping the fight on foot. That's how Ronda Rousey lost her first match. She couldn't get her opponent to the ground, after many attempts.

Many with strong ground game, lost to McGregor. He won over on the pressure, and imposed his game.

This means that Nurmagomedov is superior in skill, but not only this--but is mentally stronger than McGregor.

McGregor lost that match before he even stepped in the ring. He obsessively trained to try to beat this guy on the ground, vs trying to beat him with his strengths.

 

[pistolpete11]

I hope you do realize that the point of being the greatest in the UFC, is developing a style that will give all fighters problems.

All the greats, have this in their arsenal.

Tony Ferguson, trains in gymnastics, and uses so many different movements. It keeps his movement fluid, and unpredictable. McGregor does the same. It allows them to adapt to other fighter styles.

Most boxers move the same way, as do many trained MMA athletes. This means, all your punches and movements can easily be telegraphed.

I could go on and on.

Nurmagomedov has a style that neutralizes the striking game of any striker in the UFC.

He doesn't need to go toe to toe with you. He knows he'll destroy you on the ground.

The whole point of a striker, is imposing their will, and keeping the fight on foot. That's how Ronda Rousey lost her first match. She couldn't get her opponent to the ground, after many attempts.

Many with strong ground game, lost to McGregor. He won over on the pressure, and imposed his game.

This means that Nurmagomedov is superior in skill, but not only this--but is mentally stronger than McGregor.

McGregor lost that match before he even stepped in the ring. He obsessively trained to try to beat this guy on the ground, vs trying to beat him with his strengths.

Dude, are you purposely being this dense?

I never said he needs to be a striker. I simply refuted YOUR point that he stands toe to toe with elite strikers.

Clearly you can't understand my point or are going to continue to cherry pick one sentence of my post and try to twist words around until you feel you accomplished something. So good day, sir.

 

[Egg]

I simply refuted YOUR point that he stands toe to toe with elite strikers.

Did he not beat McGregor? Beat doesn't even remotely give the true gravity of it, light. He humiliated him.

Did McGregor not get knocked down? Isn't McGregor an elite striker? Oh, so he was tired, some would say? Isn't cardio part of your arsenal of weapons?

Okay, then. Not remotely close to Nurmagomedov's level as stated.

 

[MaxV]

I think both of you guys are right.

It’s not that Khabib “stands toe-to-tie” with elite strikers, it’s that he downgrades elite strikers to the level where he can stand with them.

Take Barbosa fight for example, as I’ve said before, Edson’s weapon is his kick so he needs his feet to be set to be at his best. He was constantly running away from Khabib when on his feet. He had really no opportunity to set his feet and target his kick. One kick at the very end I guess but by then those kicks had no power.

Khabib’s strategy for Conor’s fight was different. He was patient. Conor wants his opponent to attack him, that’s where he is at his best, Khabib never gave him that opportunity. This left Conor with a dilemma. He had to press forward and that’s pretty much just stepping into Khabib’s bear trap.

 

[LSCII]

I hope you do realize that the point of being the greatest in the UFC, is developing a style that will give all fighters problems.

All the greats, have this in their arsenal.

Tony Ferguson, trains in gymnastics, and uses so many different movements. It keeps his movement fluid, and unpredictable. McGregor does the same. It allows them to adapt to other fighter styles.

Most boxers move the same way, as do many trained MMA athletes. This means, all your punches and movements can easily be telegraphed.

I could go on and on.

Nurmagomedov has a style that neutralizes the striking game of any striker in the UFC.

He doesn't need to go toe to toe with you. He knows he'll destroy you on the ground.

The whole point of a striker, is imposing their will, and keeping the fight on foot. That's how Ronda Rousey lost her first match. She couldn't get her opponent to the ground, after many attempts.

Many with strong ground game, lost to McGregor. He won over on the pressure, and imposed his game.

This means that Nurmagomedov is superior in skill, but not only this--but is mentally stronger than McGregor.

McGregor lost that match before he even stepped in the ring. He obsessively trained to try to beat this guy on the ground, vs trying to beat him with his strengths.

Yes, you are so right. Khabib is clearly the bestest ever!! And he cannot be beaten by anyone. He's too perfect at everything.

In fact, going forward when they sign him to a fight, the opposing fighter should just concede before the fight even starts because he has no chance of ever doing anything in the cage with Khabib.

Or, you know, we could just let the fights actually happen and see how it plays out, since plenty of people before Khabib have looked unbeatable too, only to end up losing. Ask GSP how much he enjoyed the first Matt Serra fight. Hell, ask him if he even remembers it. Ask Aldo how his 13 seconds in the cage vs McGregor were. Ask Silva if he enjoyed clowning Weidman in the ring 3 seconds before he got slept. And so on and so on and so on...

Yeah, on second thought, I'll wait to see what happens and enjoy the fights for what they are.

 

[Egg]

He's too perfect at everything.

Sarcasm aside, he can be beat. I just don't think McGregor is anywhere close to being of a level that could get that desired result.

 

[LSCII]

Sarcasm aside, he can be beat. I just don't think McGregor is anywhere close to being of a level that could get that desired result.

Meh. Levels change constantly in MMA. If this fight had been 2 years ago when McGregor was fighting regularly and Khabib was coming off a long layoff, who knows what would have happened? It's why I think you're being a little disingenuous in your analysis on this match up.

 

[Egg]

Ask Silva if he enjoyed clowning Weidman in the ring 3 seconds before he got slept.

You underestimate an opponent, and they will make you pay. Khabib is far too humble to underestimate McGregor.

It's why he stayed away from his left hand in the first couple rounds. Once he was exhausted, he lost the bulk of his knockout power, which is why Khabib humored him, and stood up with him for a bit.

You fight smart and diligent, Conor doesn't stand a chance.

Point am making.

They're not at the same level. Doesn't mean he is unbeatable.

 

[Egg]

If this fight had been 2 years ago

To me, Connor was humiliated this year. The stars aligned to have this fight this year. Why focus on what its?

Those are irrelevant.

As is, it's not even a close match up. Period.

 

[LSCII]

To me, Connor was humiliated this year. The stars aligned to have this fight this year. Why focus on what its?

Those are irrelevant.

As is, it's not even a close match up. Period.

I believe you're the person making generalizations and sweeping statements about how there is only one possible outcome. All I'm saying is that your view is a gross oversimplification, IMO.

How this fight went is the only known commodity in this discussion. How future fights will go is an unknown because it's all based on too many variables and unknowns. Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't think Khabib was a good match up stylistically for McGregor, but that doesn't mean he can't win in a future fight. Just like when I said Tony Ferguson is a bad match up for Khabib it doesn't mean Khabib can't win. It's why you have the fight to start with FFS.