U23: Czechia vs. Slovakia
- Thread starter Pavel Buchnevich
- Start date
Antiillafire
Registered User
I think it’s pretty even, forwards maybe slight edge to Slovakia, and defense slight edge to Czechia. Edge to Czechs in goal probably is the difference maker.
But it’s pretty hard to predict how the guys eligible for 2025 or 2026 will look in a few months or even by the time of their draft. Who knows how those players will look at that time and if they will be viewed much higher or lower.
I think setting up U23 max age with 2026 draft as earliest eligible Slovaks would be something like this:
Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Tomik
Honzek - Pobezal - Mesar
Pekarcik - Misiak - Sykora
Chromiak - Petrovsky - Ciernik
Dravecky - Nemec
Strbak - Radivojevic
Kmec - Chromiak
Natny
Gajan
Hlavaj
Latkoczy
Difficult to truly assess the 2025 and 2026 eligibles now, but the ones listed are the ones I truly believe in just as I saw other talents from 2022 and 2023.
But it’s pretty hard to predict how the guys eligible for 2025 or 2026 will look in a few months or even by the time of their draft. Who knows how those players will look at that time and if they will be viewed much higher or lower.
I think setting up U23 max age with 2026 draft as earliest eligible Slovaks would be something like this:
Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Tomik
Honzek - Pobezal - Mesar
Pekarcik - Misiak - Sykora
Chromiak - Petrovsky - Ciernik
Dravecky - Nemec
Strbak - Radivojevic
Kmec - Chromiak
Natny
Gajan
Hlavaj
Latkoczy
Difficult to truly assess the 2025 and 2026 eligibles now, but the ones listed are the ones I truly believe in just as I saw other talents from 2022 and 2023.
WarriorofTime
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kudla
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Slight edge to the slovak forwards, slight edge to the czech defense, big edge to the czech goalies. Im surprised how close it is actually
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
I think it's "close" too.
And to me, it's not that important who is ahead. I respect both. Don't care who is better at what point, but I think we're entering an era where Slovak hockey is starting to establish itself as a very credible hockey country again.
For a few years, people suggested Germany was the next country to become a real threat in hockey. And they've produced some great players (Draisaitl, Stuetzle, Seider), but the depth is very lacking and recently it's leveled off. They routinely are getting beat by very heavy scores lines in junior tournaments against the best and their draft prospects have hit a number of down years in a row.
I think Slovakia lacks a little of the depth of Czechia. Year by year, I still think there are more quality Czech prospects, but the gap is closing. Typically these junior international tournaments were looked at as it'll be a battle between the big 4, Czechia might threaten on a great year, and almost certainly whoever else is in the tournament is no threat. Now, I think it's battle between the big 4 (or 3 without Russia), and Czechia/Slovakia might threaten on a great year. I think it's good for hockey too. Not to say Slovakia is so far above Switzerland, Germany, or one or two others that they can't have a tournament or age group where they might be beaten by those countries, but I think they are closer now to Czechia than they are to the countries below the top 6.
And what happens at the junior levels tends to be a precursor of what will happen over the coming years in the mens category, as those players get older and become the men's generation. We'll see if it continues, but I think Slovakia is becoming a very legit threat when you can put them side by side with Czechia in a comparison of U23 prospects and not see a ton of difference in the two teams. I was thinking about this, did the research into it in making this thread, and it flipped a switch when I saw my initial view played out pretty correct that we have to start changing how we look at where Slovakia is in the international hockey landscape.
And to me, it's not that important who is ahead. I respect both. Don't care who is better at what point, but I think we're entering an era where Slovak hockey is starting to establish itself as a very credible hockey country again.
For a few years, people suggested Germany was the next country to become a real threat in hockey. And they've produced some great players (Draisaitl, Stuetzle, Seider), but the depth is very lacking and recently it's leveled off. They routinely are getting beat by very heavy scores lines in junior tournaments against the best and their draft prospects have hit a number of down years in a row.
I think Slovakia lacks a little of the depth of Czechia. Year by year, I still think there are more quality Czech prospects, but the gap is closing. Typically these junior international tournaments were looked at as it'll be a battle between the big 4, Czechia might threaten on a great year, and almost certainly whoever else is in the tournament is no threat. Now, I think it's battle between the big 4 (or 3 without Russia), and Czechia/Slovakia might threaten on a great year. I think it's good for hockey too. Not to say Slovakia is so far above Switzerland, Germany, or one or two others that they can't have a tournament or age group where they might be beaten by those countries, but I think they are closer now to Czechia than they are to the countries below the top 6.
And what happens at the junior levels tends to be a precursor of what will happen over the coming years in the mens category, as those players get older and become the men's generation. We'll see if it continues, but I think Slovakia is becoming a very legit threat when you can put them side by side with Czechia in a comparison of U23 prospects and not see a ton of difference in the two teams. I was thinking about this, did the research into it in making this thread, and it flipped a switch when I saw my initial view played out pretty correct that we have to start changing how we look at where Slovakia is in the international hockey landscape.
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Czechboy
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Thanks for making the thread... It's an awesome one. I'm on vacation and don't have time to delve into it.
My initial thought is that the top end goes to Slovakia as slag, Nemec and gajan are rated higher than jiricek, Kulich and Hrabal.
After that I feel like Czechs have a considerably bigger NHL pool. We have at least 3 more goalies drafted in that age range. We have 8 in the NHL at backup to starter level. And we have an undrafted Suchanek
.
Draft wise in that range we had more guys taken as well at every position but none of those guys may ever
Eg. Szturc is undrafted for czechs
My initial thought is that the top end goes to Slovakia as slag, Nemec and gajan are rated higher than jiricek, Kulich and Hrabal.
After that I feel like Czechs have a considerably bigger NHL pool. We have at least 3 more goalies drafted in that age range. We have 8 in the NHL at backup to starter level. And we have an undrafted Suchanek
.
Draft wise in that range we had more guys taken as well at every position but none of those guys may ever
How many Slovaks drafted on that list? Eligible ones not under agers?
Eg. Szturc is undrafted for czechs
I didn't think I would write anything on this topic, but at least a little after this post.
Hrabal vs Gajan. Gajan was drafted higher, in his second year of the draft, and certainly wasn't expected to go that high (if only because he wasn't drafted in his first year). So is he a better prospect because of a few draft spots? I doubt it, I think I saw a ranking of goalkeeper prospects here too, and Hrabal was way higher.
Jiříček vs German. From what I saw of the rankings after this season, they are defenders at the same level (again, if you only take into account the draft.. They were defended as the two best defenders, it depended on the preferences of the club). I have no idea why the German should be taken as a better prospect. Each has different strengths, and both are on the same level in prospect rankings (again, in local polls as well). If a Slovak fan wrote it, I would understand
))Kulich vs Slaf.. That would be an interesting poll. Slaf as the number one draft, played in the NHL. I don't think Habs fans are happy, many would like him to play in the AHL. Kulich had a great season in the AHL. Even here, some in the redraft (I know he has no great value after the D+1 season, but I didn't evaluate the players that way, I'm just reacting..) had him higher than Slaf.
Just a small review...
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Only players not drafted (leaving aside 2024 and 2025 first time eligibles) for Slovakia are Natny, Kmec, and the two non-Gajan goalies. What’s interesting is that I think Slovakia has quality goalies, despite some of them not being drafted. Their worst spot is left defense. Knazko is the only left shot defender drafted. Natny is a left shot. Kmec is a right shot, so it’s a depth issue too. He’s probably enough better than the left shots that he should be included despite the big imbalance of L-R, but he’s not drafted.
Total is
Czechia: 1 (Szturc)
Slovakia: 4 (Natny, Kmec, Hlavaj, Latkoczy)
Czechboy
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Of undrafted czechs with a hope of a NHL career... I'd add Petr and Suchanek.
Drafted Czechs missing include Krutil, vondras, malik and I think I'm missing another goalie. I think we have 6 drafted goalies in this range (maybe Bednar?).
On the high end of likely NHL players...
I'd say
Slaf, Nemec and Gajan > Kulich, jiricek and Hrabal.
I obviously hope all 6 have an impact.
Czechs are starting with a much deeper NHL pool and seem to have more depth in these specific draft years to me.
Agree Slovakia is coming back and that is great!
Czechboy
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And I'll add svozil and badinka as potential higher picks coming up.
Of course.. long season and a lot can change! Eg. 2 years ago I thought Petr was a first rounder and he didn't even get drafted. Lukas parik (drafted ahead of svozil) already headed back to Europe. Jan mysak looked good till he dropped. Don't even get me started on Jaromir Pytlik, Martin Has or Simon Kubicek.haha
JabbaJabba
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Czechboy
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First line could be three first rounders so we agree that's pretty good. Also two playmakers and a shooter.
I'm not saying it competes with a big 5 U23 but Sapo is a second rounder and ..
Jenik has played in NHL
Lauko has played in NHL
Raska has played in NHL
Blumel has played in NHL
Of course it's possible jenik, blumel and Raska never see NHL ice again. Is slaf the only Slovak to play in NHL?
Irrelevant but svozil and jiricek also have NHL games. So does Dostal.
Czechboy
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And yes... Because of draft position.I didn't think I would write anything on this topic, but at least a little after this post.
Hrabal vs Gajan. Gajan was drafted higher, in his second year of the draft, and certainly wasn't expected to go that high (if only because he wasn't drafted in his first year). So is he a better prospect because of a few draft spots? I doubt it, I think I saw a ranking of goalkeeper prospects here too, and Hrabal was way higher.
Jiříček vs German. From what I saw of the rankings after this season, they are defenders at the same level (again, if you only take into account the draft.. They were defended as the two best defenders, it depended on the preferences of the club). I have no idea why the German should be taken as a better prospect. Each has different strengths, and both are on the same level in prospect rankings (again, in local polls as well). If a Slovak fan wrote it, I would understand
Kulich vs Slaf.. That would be an interesting poll. Slaf as the number one draft, played in the NHL. I don't think Habs fans are happy, many would like him to play in the AHL. Kulich had a great season in the AHL. Even here, some in the redraft (I know he has no great value after the D+1 season, but I didn't evaluate the players that way, I'm just reacting..) had him higher than Slaf.
Just a small review...
Nemec before jiricek.
Gajan before Hrabal.
Slaf before Kulich by a good margin.
Dvorsky before Sale.
Today, that feels fair to point out.
Of course Vrana went before Pastrnak and Nedved went before Jagr.
Czechboy
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Another thing to look at could be the three major junior tourney results in those 3 years. U18, U20 and Hlinka. 9 tourneys is a good sample Both federations have the same restrictions and obstacles. I think that'd favor the Czechs pretty heavily as we have 2 silvers and several semi finals at all 3 tourneys where we didn't medal.
Good. I wouldn't be surprised if someone completely ignorant wrote this. But two of those players are a year away and sorry, their current status doesn't really match what you wrote. It's one year after the draft, it's not really definitive, but that's where they stand right now.
And Gajan vs Hrabal is also a very funny sight from the point of view of knowledgeable fans. Well, Gajan was a few places higher (completely irrelevant in the second round) and the vast majority of fans see Hrabal as a better prospect. The simple reality is obvious from the polls on hfboards. I don't know who will be better in the end.
Czechboy
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All I am saying is that if it were the opposite and those 4 Czechs went ahead of those 4 Slovaks. Today I would mention it haha.
I hope all 8 make it . I hope we make it a big 6... I hope they make it a big 7. I hope we get best on bests again. All dreams.lok
Antiillafire
Registered User
Hfboards is the beacon of historical accuracy as we all know. Like the poll from 2018 where 80% of responses voted for Laine and Barzal being a better duo moving forward then Matthews and Marner
.Until these prospects have actually had several years to develop, it’s all just who likes who more. Draisaitl was viewed as having a horrible DY+1 in the NHL, his production was worse than slafkovsky’s. I think he became a pretty good player. Nikita Filatov had a superior DY+1 in the AhL and than brief stint in the NHL then Kulich and Filatov ended his career as an average VHL player and never achieved anything in North America. Kulich could become a star and Slafkovsky could be an average third liner, predicting prospects outside of bonafide stars is extremely difficult.
Craig Button had Sale as the second best player for the 2023 draft after the Hlinka Gretzky Cup. Yet 2 Slovak forwards went ahead of him, must’ve been magic beans left over from the Olympics how that happened. I wonder if Craig button had ever even heard of Honzek in September of 2023. Or the name David Reinbacher. Funny he had Emil Jarventie as a top 12 pick at that time too, and he ended up almost going undrafted. I wonder how much these so called scouts actually tune into leagues other than the ones down their block
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Antiillafire
Registered User
No context though?
2022 U18: Slovaks illegally barred from participating by the IIHF
2022 WJC: Cancelled than re started in August with no Slafkovsky, Chromiak, Stacha, Knazko, Nemec, Mesar, Demek playing with a separated shoulder, etc, etc.
2022 Hlinka: No Dvorsky or Strbak
2023 WJC: No Slafkovsky, Demek, Molnar, Honzek injured 10 minutes into the second game of the tournament and never returns
2023 U18: No Molnar.
2023 Hlinka: Czechs deservedly win silver and have a vastly superior 2006 born generation compared to Slovakia.
I wouldn't really argue with how well or poorly individual players end up in their careers. But right now the players look exactly as I wrote.Hfboards is the beacon of historical accuracy as we all know. Like the poll from 2018 where 80% of responses voted for Laine and Barzal being a better duo moving forward then Matthews and Marner
View attachment 739161
Until these prospects have actually had several years to develop, it’s all just who likes who more. Draisaitl was viewed as having a horrible DY+1 in the NHL, his production was worse than slafkovsky’s. I think he became a pretty good player. Nikita Filatov had a superior DY+1 in the AhL and than brief stint in the NHL then Kulich and Filatov ended his career as an average VHL player and never achieved anything in North America. Kulich could become a star and Slafkovsky could be an average third liner, predicting prospects outside of bonafide stars is extremely difficult.
Craig Button had Sale as the second best player for the 2023 draft after the Hlinka Gretzky Cup. Yet 2 Slovak forwards went ahead of him, must’ve been magic beans left over from the Olympics how that happened. I wonder if Craig button had ever even heard of Honzek in September of 2023. Or the name David Reinbacher.
Antiillafire
Registered User
I guess fans know more than NHL scouts! Funny you mention Hrabal and Gajan, shouldn’t Hrabal have been able to beat a Slovak team at the U18’s that had less drafted players than the Czech Republic with Slovakia missing its second best forward? As for where they stand now, Fowler had a much better season than either Gajan or Hrabal and yet went way lower.
Maybe even the Slovak scout on the day of the draft who said that Gajan would definitely not go in the first two rounds, but maybe in the fourth or fifth at first, didn't know anything. It's just that one team saw something more in him than the others. Everything else remains to be seen.
Ironic, you make a sarcastic note on how clueless fans are compared to NHL scouts and then go ahead and claim Molnar (?) is this stud forward right behind Dvorsky, while he went undrafted.
Antiillafire
Registered User
I never said Molnar was a stud forward that would be drafted or that he was right behind Dvorsky. Even in Molnar’s own thread I was basing my views off of what guys like Scott wheeler were hearing around the NHL. I am not at all surprised Molnar wasn’t drafted, that doesn’t mean he’s not the second best 2005 born Slovak forward after Dvorsky. The only thing I’m doing is basing Molnar vs the field.
Didn’t they also say that guys like Kukumberg and Cedzo would be drafted and yet they weren’t? I’m sure none of them had Jedlicka as being drafted. They are going off the best information that they have available. They weren’t talking directly to Chicago’s goaltending coach about how much he’d push for Gajan at 35 vs Hrabal or Fowler or Augustine.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
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