HF Habs: U18 World Men's Hockey Championship, April 25-May 5

[Andrei79]

And sometimes a player gets so scrutinized people focus on a grain of sand while ignoring the beach. Mike Bossy dropped for that very reason. Hull was drafted late in the draft. Caufield fell to mid draft…

Yeah, there are instances where this is true: the skating, the trying to do too many skilled/high risk plays (both Hughes brothers), the lack of size. People get too caught up on this one negative and overblow it. Rarely is it about the compete though. How do you even over scrutinize compete ? It's a consistent reason from players dropping, because it's not a grain of sand, it makes or breaks players.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You're being all over the place by bringing up Kessel. He's a completely different kind of player who had multiple dimensions to his offense even during his draft year.

Yes, he’s a different player but he faced similar criticisms.

So did Bossy.

Bossy was pretty much exactly the same case as Eiserman. “He can’t play defense. He’s too soft. Perimeter player etc..”Went 16th and went on to become one of the best players of all time.

Heck, Hull is the closest comparison as a low compete "lazy player" at the time of the draft and he basically proves the point: that's an extreme outlier that comes once every few decades. Nothing any serious scouting team should base themselves on.

Hull was a pure shooter who couldn’t do half of what Eiserman can now. That’s why he went so late.

It just goes to show you that shooting can take you a long way.

And Matthews has been the target of harsh criticism for his playoff performance, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact.

Sure. And you can include me in that group. But he’s not terrible and is a lot better than Marner. His problem is that he’s surrounded by finesse players and no defensive help. It’s a really bad mix.

Bossy had Trottier, Hull had Oates… Eiserman would need a solid center, no doubt. But he can skate and he can shoot. On the right club he could be insanely good. He’s also one of the youngest players in the draft. Give him good coaching and teammates and he could be a superstar.

I understand why people are walking away from him, I do. But he has serious potential. If he goes to the right team he’ll be great. If he goes somewhere without support? He has a good chance of failure.

 

[Andrei79]

Yes, he’s a different player but he faced similar criticisms.

Bossy was pretty much exactly the same case as Eiserman. “He can’t play defense. He’s too soft. Perimeter player etc..”Went 16th and went on to become one of the best players of all time.

Hull was a pure shooter who couldn’t do half of what Eiserman can now. That’s why he went so late.

It just goes to show you that shooting can take you a long way.

Sure. And you can include me in that group. But he’s not terrible and is a lot better than Marner. His problem is that he’s surrounded by finesse players and no defensive help. It’s a really bad mix.

Bossy had Trottier, Hull had Oates… Eiserman would need a solid center, no doubt. But he can skate and he can shoot. On the right club he could be insanely good. He’s also one of the youngest players in the draft. Give him good coaching and teammates and he could be a superstar.

I understand why people are walking away from him, I do. But he has serious potential. If he goes to the right team he’ll be great. If he goes somewhere without support? He has a good chance of failure.

Kessel was a real talent in 2006. He had a lot attitude concerns. He had what seems to be a crazy hockey mom. He had two high drafted players from the previous years openly have issues with him, one of which called him a dirt bag. Before being paired with Malkin and Crosby, two of the three best players of his generation, he was ran out of both of his teams. Heck, Malkin couldn't stand him. That's a lot of baggage for someone who's always been pretty good in the playoffs.

But I don't think that's the issue with Eiserman, he doesnt seem like a kid with character issues. The worries are where his game is going and how he's competing when it's not about shooting. Some of his games were worrying. I'm not denying the skill or how goal scoring is the hardest thing to do. But I'm wary about how translatable what he's doing will be. For example, I always disagreed with the criticism that was directed at Lucas Raymond during his draft year. If you looked at him play, he was actually making a lot of translatable and highly, highly skilled plays for a 17 year old in the SHL.

That said, I can't disagree with your overall point Yes, serious potential. Yes, a good support system will help. What's hard is we don't have access to all the information we need to do the whole due diligence. If this management team picks him, it's because they did their homework. Hughes isn't someone who takes these issues lightly.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Kessel was a real talent in 2006. He had a lot attitude concerns. He had what seems to be a crazy hockey mom. He had two high drafted players from the previous years openly have issues with him, one of which called him a dirt bag. Before being paired with Malkin and Crosby, two of the three best players of his generation, he was ran out of both of his teams. Heck, Malkin couldn't stand him. That's a lot of baggage for someone who's always been pretty good in the playoffs.

I get it.

But the guy was able to score despite all the accusations of being lazy. He was also great in the playoffs.

And Eiserman doesn't have the personality baggage that Kessel does.

But I don't think that's the issue with Eiserman, he doesnt seem like a kid with character issues. The worries are where his game is going and how he's competing when it's not about shooting. Some of his games were worrying. I'm not denying the skill or how goal scoring is the hardest thing to do. But I'm wary about how translatable what he's doing will be. For example, I always disagreed with the criticism that was directed at Lucas Raymond during his draft year. If you looked at him play, he was actually making a lot of translatable and highly, highly skilled plays for a 17 year old in the SHL.

And it's a valid concern.

My argument is that he's younger than almost everyone else and at one point was competing for the first overall slot.

Secondly, the skill IS there. The size is there. The skating is good. He has all the tools.

It really comes down to coachability and environment. I think in the right environment, he could be a superstar. But if he were say... Chicago's first overall pick last year? He'd have been a disaster. He needs to go somewhere there's an established huslting culture and a team with a good track record of development. I think if that happens, he'll do really well.

That said, I can't disagree with your overall point Yes, serious potential. Yes, a good support system will help. What's hard is we don't have access to all the information we need to do the whole due diligence. If this management team picks him, it's because they did their homework. Hughes isn't someone who takes these issues lightly.

I think he'd crush it in Montreal.

Elsewhere? It would really depend on the situation.

 

[dinodebino]

Vinny to Kent; 9 figures net worth and here we are..

Martin to himself; how do I tell TVA the Quebecers suck this year?

Nick to himself; I need more free Skoda merch

The glasses. The. Glasses. Sig move.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

The glasses. The. Glasses. Sig move.

Hockey historians will analyze this picture for years to come.

 

[CHwest]

I get it.

But the guy was able to score despite all the accusations of being lazy. He was also great in the playoffs.

And Eiserman doesn't have the personality baggage that Kessel does.

And it's a valid concern.

My argument is that he's younger than almost everyone else and at one point was competing for the first overall slot.

Secondly, the skill IS there. The size is there. The skating is good. He has all the tools.

It really comes down to coachability and environment. I think in the right environment, he could be a superstar. But if he were say... Chicago's first overall pick last year? He'd have been a disaster. He needs to go somewhere there's an established huslting culture and a team with a good track record of development. I think if that happens, he'll do really well.

I think he'd crush it in Montreal.

Elsewhere? It would really depend on the situation.

If you cannot play a complete game all GM's are going to say hmmm. Drafting high is a lot of being scared to mess the pick up, I can understand GM's being leery. High picks don't come around often a swing for the moon with a very high pick is foolish in my opinion.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If you cannot play a complete game all GM's are going to say hmmm. Drafting high is a lot of being scared to mess the pick up, I can understand GM's being leery. High picks don't come around often a swing for the moon with a very high pick is foolish in my opinion.

I can understand it too. But I can understand it for most picks. Is Lidstrom talented enough? Will his back hold up? Is Catton big enough? What about that hip? Can Demidov play in the North American game and be successful?

Every player has questions. And yes, Eiserman has holes and defiencies. But when you look at a prospect, the main thing you should be evaluating is the potential.

Even with all his flaws, he’s going to break the goals record. Evan with him sliding down the chart he’s still a goal per game… imagine if you could develop him properly. Imagine him with a solid two way playmaker who could help bring him along…

Maybe he’s not coachable. Maybe he’ll never have the complete game and maybe he’s the wrong pick. I’m simply saying that he’s being written off a little too hastily by some. The potential for a superstar is there. I just think he needs the right environment.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Damn, Latvia is leading Slovakia 4-3 after 2. Latvia really has a growing hockey program, but that would still be quite the upset.

At least half of Slovakia's team are 2007s, so a really young team and not a strong 2006 group for 2024 draft.

An even bigger upset would be Khaskstan against Switzerland. Khaskstan is leading 2-0 after 1! Crazy.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Slovakia loses to Latvia 5-3.

Switzerland is now beating Kazakhstan 4-2. Only a few minutes left in that one.

 

[Gravity]

I'd also wager significant bucks that Montreal won't draft Eiserman.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I'd also wager significant bucks that Montreal won't draft Eiserman.

They're not drafting Eiserman at #5 overall. If he inexplicably falls to Winnipeg's pick & we still own it ....

 

[WeThreeKings]

I would really wonder what they'd do if Lindstrom and Demidov are gone when they are on the clock.. For me, you have to look at Catton as the best pure offensive player left. Hopefully Tij shows more gamebreaking qualities as the tournament goes on, not the best game 1 for him.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'd also wager significant bucks that Montreal won't draft Eiserman.

We won’t.

Now is that a good thing? We’ll see I guess.

 

[Habs]

I'd also wager significant bucks that Montreal won't draft Eiserman.

unless we can make a move with Winnipeg's pick and some D to drop to 11 or so, I'd be good with that. People here were trashing Brady with the same things as they are Eiserman, and we got stuck with goofball instead

 

[Gravity]

unless we can make a move with Winnipeg's pick and some D to drop to 11 or so, I'd be good with that. People here were trashing Brady with the same things as they are Eiserman, and we got stuck with goofball instead

They're not drafting Eiserman at #5 overall. If he inexplicably falls to Winnipeg's pick & we still own it ....

We won’t.

Now is that a good thing? We’ll see I guess.

I don't think he's going to fall until the mid/late 20s.
Also Brady and Cole are completely different players. Brady was always a gritty, competitive winger. It's his offensive ceiling that was in question. Cole seems to lack drive. More of a floater.

 

[Habs]

I don't think he's going to fall until the mid/late 20s.
Also Brady and Cole are completely different players. Brady was always a gritty, competitive winger. It's his offensive ceiling that was in question. Cole seems to lack drive. More of a floater.

I was wondering if they may package up that pick with say Harris, to move down in the draft to lower teens.

 

[Andrei79]

I get it.

But the guy was able to score despite all the accusations of being lazy. He was also great in the playoffs.

And Eiserman doesn't have the personality baggage that Kessel does.

And it's a valid concern.

My argument is that he's younger than almost everyone else and at one point was competing for the first overall slot.

Secondly, the skill IS there. The size is there. The skating is good. He has all the tools.

It really comes down to coachability and environment. I think in the right environment, he could be a superstar. But if he were say... Chicago's first overall pick last year? He'd have been a disaster. He needs to go somewhere there's an established huslting culture and a team with a good track record of development. I think if that happens, he'll do really well.

I think he'd crush it in Montreal.

Elsewhere? It would really depend on the situation.

Heck, if he gets picked by Montreal, I'll be a fan. I'm not one to stick to personal vendettas when it comes to players the team trades or drafts. I'll definitely look for more of the positive in his games if he ever becomes a Canadien. How high would you draft him and who are you willing to pick over him curiously ?

 

[lilmaxo]

Second assist of the day for Helenius.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Heck, if he gets picked by Montreal, I'll be a fan. I'm not one to stick to personal vendettas when it comes to players the team trades or drafts. I'll definitely look for more of the positive in his games if he ever becomes a Canadien. How high would you draft him and who are you willing to pick over him curiously ?

As always, I will say out front that I’m not an authority on junior players by any stretch. Many here watch the juniors and I really don’t. I have a sense of who the main players are by watching a few games and a lot of clips. Purely an armchair QB’s pick.

He would be my first pick after Cellebrini. He’s not as finished as the others and is almost a year younger in some cases so there’s development that’s needed. However, despite his flaws and the holes in his game, I think he has an insanely high ceiling. Those goals are extremely valuable and I value goalscoring over almost everything else.

Yes, you need a mix of players but I think we already have that here. I think he’d do extremely well in Montreal.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Gotta say, I’m pretty bummed that the only forwards that I’m really excited about drafting that are actually playing in this tournament are Eiserman and Iginla. Really wouldve liked to see Catton, Lidstrom and Demidov .

 

[WeThreeKings]

Gotta say, I’m pretty bummed that the only forwards that I’m really excited about drafting that are actually playing in this tournament are Eiserman and Iginla. Really wouldve liked to see Catton, Lidstrom and Demidov .

You and me both.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

unless we can make a move with Winnipeg's pick and some D to drop to 11 or so, I'd be good with that. People here were trashing Brady with the same things as they are Eiserman, and we got stuck with goofball instead

Dude, they're not even remotely the same type of player. Brady is a power forward and always was. Eiserman is a volume shooter, and not really physical at all. He has more in common with Michael Ryder than he does Brady Tkachuk.

 

[Fatbiggie]

Canada scores right off the bat

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Canada scores 5 seconds in. Malcolm Spence. A weird bounce off the D's stick went right to him.

1-0 Canada.