Trouba traded to NYR

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

A lot of people didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell of that happening, making the trade a profligate waste, which it also is in hindsight.

You're totally correct in that the Jets were trending in the wrong direction making Chevy's move questionable even at the time...

...but the Jets CLEARLY were among the leagues elite, even while trending in the wrong direction.

This team is going to move forward and likely compete for the next half decade with the roster it has currently assembled, one that in all likelihood will never look as on good on paper as last years edition did.

Chevy scrimped and saved all season, often sending players to the Moose for a handful of days to save up the cap space for a deadline deal that most contending teams dream of making. I'd even guess he'd positioned himself years in advance to be making exactly the deal he made.

With the talent the 2018-2019 team had, it's no wonder he did what he did. Had he not our fan base would have spent the rest of our lives questioning how a team with the best forward group in the NHL, Jennings level goaltending and a blue line consisting of Byfuglien, Trouba, Morrissey, Myers Kulikov, Chiarot didn't deserve a late season addition of a Hayes calibre player, particularly with the teams concerns at C2.

We barely lost to the Stanley Cup champions who themselves had a single roster change take them from worst to first. I have no issue with Chevy swinging for the fence on the Hayes deal.

 

[Board Bard]

With the talent the 2018-2019 team had, it's no wonder he did what he did. Had he not our fan base would have spent the rest of our lives questioning how a team with the best forward group in the NHL, Jennings level goaltending and a blue line consisting of Byfuglien, Trouba, Morrissey, Myers Kulikov, Chiarot didn't deserve a late season addition of a Hayes calibre player.

I don't think that's true at all. I think many in the fan base, if not most, had no question it was a bad trade to make when (even before) it was made. I'd venture to say they feel the same now. For the others, Chevy not making that trade might have stung at the time, but as events unfolded, particularly the rumours of discord in the room, I think many of them would have come to see it as a blessing in disguise. IMO.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I don't think that's true at all. I think many in the fan base, if not most, had no question it was a bad trade to make when (even before) it was made. I'd venture to say they feel the same now. For the others, Chevy not making that trade might have stung at the time, but as events unfolded, particularly the rumours of discord in the room, I think many of them would have come to see it as a blessing in disguise. IMO.

Even the most cynical believed to some degree there was a "switch to be flipped."

Yes even when that phrase peaked in popularity there were many arguing that the game of hockey wasn't this simple, but no one thought this team was 100% out of it. The Blues were the hottest team in the NHL going into the playoffs and the Jets were still the favourites amongst odds makers to win that series.

I've no issue with the deal, at least as far as it being one GM's in Chevy's position make every year.

A better argument is why any teams ever bother when in todays NHL every game is a coin flip. I read somewhere that the Hayes addition improved the Jets odds at the Cup at 3%. Elsewhere the Stone deal barely affected the Vegas odds, despite Stone being a franchise player.

On the subject of Stone, would the Jets have had a better shot had he been the deadline acquisition rather than Hayes?

 

[Board Bard]

Even the most cynical believed to some degree there was a "switch to be flipped."

I didn't. It was pretty clear to me that there was no switch, and if there was it had been disconnected. I don't think I was alone either.

but no one thought this team was 100% out of it.

I did. I don't think I was alone either.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I didn't. It was pretty clear to me that there was no switch, and if there was it had been disconnected. I don't think I was alone either.



I did. I don't think I was alone either.

If "you or others thought" the team was "100% out of it", the results clearly said otherwise

1) loss 1-2
2) loss 3-4
3) win 6-3
4) win 2-1 OT
5) loss 2-3
6) loss 2-3

Net score in the series was 16-16.

 

[Board Bard]

If "you or others thought" the team was "100% out of it", the results clearly said otherwise

1) loss 1-2
2) loss 3-4
3) win 6-3
4) win 2-1 OT
5) loss 2-3
6) loss 2-3

Net score in the series was 16-16.

And they lost, right? That's what I 100% expected them to do.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

And they lost, right? That's what I 100% expected them to do.

So you were 100% convinced they would barely lose against the Stanley Cup Champions? They never lost a game by more than a single goal.

You're trying to paint a picture that the Jets were a bad team, but the truth is they were the 4th best team in the entire western conference with 99 points.

People as confident as you would have been betting each game against the spread.

News flash you'd have lost.

 

[Board Bard]

So you were 100% convinced they would barely lose against the Stanley Cup Champions? They never lost a game by more than a single goal.

Get real. Losing to the Stanley Cup champs means absolutely nothing. Losing means something. Losing in the first round was 100% what I was expecting them to do, and they came through with a 4-games-to-2 series loss, including a 6th game where they had already packed their bags for golf.

 

[Whileee]

I didn't. It was pretty clear to me that there was no switch, and if there was it had been disconnected. I don't think I was alone either.



I did. I don't think I was alone either.

I don't know about a "switch", but the Jets' poor regular season performance is often summarized by their poor underlying shot metrics, particularly in the second half of the season.

Corsica's adjusted xGF% for the Jets 2018/19:

Regular Season 47.7%
Playoffs 52.2% (vs. the hottest team down the stretch and SC champion)

 

[Board Bard]

I don't know about a "switch", but the Jets' poor regular season performance is often summarized by their poor underlying shot metrics, particularly in the second half of the season.

Corsica's adjusted xGF% for the Jets 2018/19:

Regular Season 47.7%
Playoffs 52.2% (vs. the hottest team down the stretch and SC champion)

They lost, and in the last game looked like they themselves believed they had no chance. Who am I to argue, and why would I when I agreed?

 

[Whileee]

They lost, and in the last game looked like they themselves believed they had no chance. Who am I to argue, and why would I when I agreed?

Wins don't matter in the regular season if you don't win the right way, remember? The Blues should be embarrassed that they won despite losing the expected goals battle, right?

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

So you were 100% convinced they would barely lose against the Stanley Cup Champions? They never lost a game by more than a single goal.

You're trying to paint a picture that the Jets were a bad team, but the truth is they were the 4th best team in the entire western conference with 99 points.

People as confident as you would have been betting each game against the spread.

News flash you'd have lost.

The Jets finished in a three way tie for 10th in the league. That means we finished 10th/11th/12th. We were not a bad team, but we were not a contender and we were not elite. We played .500 hockey wins/losses since about mid Dec. The Blues were elite during that same timeframe.

 

[BoJet]

Heinola! Can't contain my excitement about Ville the kid. Pionk doesn't look so shabby either. I know, small sample size, yadda yadda..

But in terms of cap, at least for the next two years we'll have a Pionk AND a Heinola for less than half a Trouba. Doesn't sound so bad now, does it? Plus no Trouba in the room. Looking at the first reactions here, they seem to be trending in a "that didn't age well"-direction pretty fast. Of course nobody could have predicted that our 20th pick could have such an impact early on. But just imagine.. the two keeping it up and this trade actually turning into a steal.

 

[BoJet]

You guys can get a beauty with that 20th overall pick. Pionk and trouba will probably have the same amount of points . You guys did fine. If you guys get tomassino with that pick you hit a home run.

This guy called it.

 

[Sperss1997]

On the subject of Stone, would the Jets have had a better shot had he been the deadline acquisition rather than Hayes?

Adding a top 3 player in this league instead of Hayes???
Yeah, it most likely would have made a difference!
The price was probably too high, though.

 

[Neuf]

Heinola! Can't contain my excitement about Ville the kid. Pionk doesn't look so shabby either. I know, small sample size, yadda yadda..

But in terms of cap, at least for the next two years we'll have a Pionk AND a Heinola for less than half a Trouba. Doesn't sound so bad now, does it? Plus no Trouba in the room. Looking at the first reactions here, they seem to be trending in a "that didn't age well"-direction pretty fast. Of course nobody could have predicted that our 20th pick could have such an impact early on. But just imagine.. the two keeping it up and this trade actually turning into a steal.

Hard to comment on posts "aging well". Draft picks are like lottery tickets, or hunting tags or something. You gain the right to try. 20th pick doesn't provide good odds, and therefore the value didn't favour the jets. I wouldn't trade the next 20th for Heinola and Pionk, for example, because it's still low odds.

The second portion would be timeline - draft picks for defense you're usually looking at 3-4 years down the road for contributions, which would fall outside the prime of some of the Jets key pieces.

So low odds and a timeline setback.

Looks like the odds and timeline might not be that bad with Heinola already with the team. Jets would be a better team with Trouba today, but man Heinola is looking good.

 

[Guffman]

Trade deadline acquisitions do not guarantee playoff series wins. They provide a small incremental increase for each round they play in.

Did the Jets “flip a switch”? They certainly played a lot better than their second half swoon as proved out by advanced stats. They actually outplayed the eventual Stanley Cup Champs looking at the series as a whole. Each game was essentially a coin flip.

Knowing the quality of play the Jets demonstrated in the playoffs, I would absolutely redo that trade to get another crack at the Blues.

People who judge trades by saying “we lost!” are just ignorant, sorry to say.

And so much for advanced stats during the regular season dictating how we would play in the playoffs. I even challenged Garett on that point and he wouldn’t touch it.

 

[Skidooboy]

Hard to comment on posts "aging well". Draft picks are like lottery tickets, or hunting tags or something. You gain the right to try. 20th pick doesn't provide good odds, and therefore the value didn't favour the jets. I wouldn't trade the next 20th for Heinola and Pionk, for example, because it's still low odds.

The second portion would be timeline - draft picks for defense you're usually looking at 3-4 years down the road for contributions, which would fall outside the prime of some of the Jets key pieces.

So low odds and a timeline setback.

Looks like the odds and timeline might not be that bad with Heinola already with the team. Jets would be a better team with Trouba today, but man Heinola is looking good.

I don't really believe that at all.

I liked Trouba, early on I was very much on the bandwagon. But, I'll be honest, I didn't like his game the last two years. I don't know if he is as good a player as many say he is. he wasn't hitting he wasn't clearing the crease like he did his first two years, and to me, especialy last year, it looked like he was in over his head on zone exits, making a lot of bad decisions that lead to goals.
So to my eye test, He wasn't the player we hoped he would be...and if he was that talented then his disinterest in Winnipeg and a bad entitled attitude affected his game, soooo he wasn't any good here anyway.

I'm not all that sorry to see him go.

 

[Board Bard]

Trade deadline acquisitions do not guarantee playoff series wins. They provide a small incremental increase for each round they play in.

Did the Jets “flip a switch”? They certainly played a lot better than their second half swoon as proved out by advanced stats. They actually outplayed the eventual Stanley Cup Champs looking at the series as a whole. Each game was essentially a coin flip.

Knowing the quality of play the Jets demonstrated in the playoffs, I would absolutely redo that trade to get another crack at the Blues.

People who judge trades by saying “we lost!” are just ignorant, sorry to say.

And so much for advanced stats during the regular season dictating how we would play in the playoffs. I even challenged Garett on that point and he wouldn’t touch it.

Maybe instead of a 52-48% (or whatever) advantage the Jets had in fancy stats over the Blues, they needed to be 54-46% for them to beat the Blues, and maybe a functioning, well-oiled team would have achieved that, whereas a team that had been vacationing for four months (and resumed the vacation in game six) could not. The only surprise in that series was that the Jets managed an uptick at all.