Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XIXI

[Hale The Villain]

Ottawa hockey insiders speculate on Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to the Senators. Hmmm | Edmonton Journal

If Kuznetsov's 4YR contract has "too much term" according to Bruce, I can't see them signing RNH to a long-term deal.

Nor should they for the same reasons they decided to trade Turris and not sign him.

 

[aragorn]

A 20th overall pick, like Ceulemans is expected to be, has only a small fraction of a chance of becoming a regular NHL'er. Why would the team trade a 21yo 1st round pick who developed into an NHL'er for a handful of magic beans?



This a solid plan. Graves can compete with Brannstrom, Mete and Brown for ice time. Granlund adds some certainty at #2C, especially if Tierney is selected by Seattle and unable to compete for it.

Zaitsev has been a #2 d-man for 5 straight years, under Babcock and DJ. He's going to be used as the #2 next year as well.



I could see this as well, though I disagree that replacing Tierney with L. Brown makes the team better. Maybe 2 years down the road, IF Logan Brown makes huge stides, but it makes us worse today.

Pinto, White, L.Brown, Tierney and Stutzle possibly moving to center... those are all much better and closer options than the team had in the 2001-02 open tryout for 2nd line center. This could be an exciting competition to watch next season.

Every draft is about finding magic beans. We clearly disagree what Brannstrom is or has become, IMO he is a bubble player at best at this time. He may get better with more ice time next yr, but IMO he is holding the position until Sanderson decides to leave school. And if it comes down to Mete or Brannstrom for that last spot I think they would go with Mete.

I think Seattle will select Tierny in the expansion draft & IMO the next best centre to replace him is L. Brown, if healthy. I also think that L. Brown is much better than Tierny offensively although at this time Tierny's defensive & two way play is still much better & Brown has a ways to go to be a decent two way player, but he could learn it on the 4th line. I certainly don't see it being any worse than what we have gotten from Tierny this past yr.

I'm not thinking of just next season, I'm looking at the long term & think Ceulemans RD has the potential to be a top 4 defenceman & plays the side the Sens need more depth, I simply don't see that in Brannstrom especially defensively. IMO he is a PP specialist that Ottawa doesn't need given that Chabot will play at least half of the PP & Sanderson the other half & he hasn't really shown much in terms of offence at this level yet. He will probably be given next yr to show what he can do or be, but once Sanderson arrives it's anyone's guess as to what happens to Brann given this coach is reluctant & understandably so to play him on his offside.

 

[Sweatred]

We clearly disagree what Brannstrom is or has become, IMO he is a bubble player at best at this time. He may get better with more ice time next yr, but IMO he is holding the position until Sanderson decides to leave school. And if it comes down to Mete or Brannstrom for that last spot I think they would go with Mete.

I think Seattle will select Tierny in the expansion draft & IMO the next best centre to replace him is L. Brown, if healthy. I also think that L. Brown is much better than Tierny offensively although at this time Tierny's defensive & two way play is still much better & Brown has a ways to go to be a decent two way player, but he could learn it on the 4th line. I certainly don't see it being any worse than what we have gotten from Tierny this past yr.

I'm not thinking of just next season, I'm looking at the long term & think Ceulemans RD has the potential to be a top 4 defenceman & plays the side the Sens need more depth, I simply don't see that in Brannstrom especially defensively. IMO he is a PP specialist that Ottawa doesn't need given that Chabot will play at least half of the PP & Sanderson the other half & he hasn't really shown much in terms of offence at this level yet. He will probably be given next yr to show what he can do or be, but once Sanderson arrives it's anyone's guess as to what happens to Brann given this coach is reluctant & understandably so to play him on his offside.

Interesting - the two best distributors in the org are probably Brown and Brann... hard to let them go based on how significant PP’s are in the league.

 

[GCK]

I think the idea that what Alfie told the Sens (which is under dispute anyways) got them so confused they could not give him another contract is total lunacy. Detroit agreed to pay him, and he went on a 1 year deal.

Alfie was probably the most underpaid elite player in the NHL during his time in Ottawa, to say he was motivated by money to leave is aa joke to me. Money is a part of it, but Alfie left because the Sens wouldn’t pay their star players like Spezza....Alfie, Stone. Etc etc

Alfie was not underpaid and there is no dispute about the contract being for cap

"When I did my last contract for four years ending in the (2012-13) season, I was asked to help the team manage the salary cap by adding on a extra year to my contract. I agreed. Each side fully expected I would retire and not play the 2012-13 season," he said at an Ottawa gymnasium on Thursday. That contract lasted from 2009-13 and paid him $7 million in the first two seasons, $4.5 million in the third and $1 million in the fourth.
At some point, though, Alfredsson decided not to retire. In 2012, when it came time to negotiate a new contract, he said, he reminded them of the agreement and wanted recompense. It wasn't coming, Alfredsson said, so talks derailed,

 

[aragorn]

Interesting - the two best distributors in the org are probably Brown and Brann... hard to let them go based on how significant PP’s are in the league.

What do you think happens to Brannstrom when Sanderson arrives? Do you think they will move him to his offside given that DJ doesn't seem to want to do that? Would Brannstron be able to beat out JBD and/or Thomson on the right side long term given they could both be better defensively? And from what we have heard doesn't it also seem like DJ prefers Mete over Brannstrom? Maybe those are just rumours, but we could know more if they re-sign Mete as to what their plan is with this defence. It's still a work in progress IMO.

 

[Boud]

What do you think happens to Brannstrom when Sanderson arrives? Do you think they will move him to his offside given that DJ doesn't seem to want to do that? Would Brannstron be able to beat out JBD and/or Thomson on the right side long term given they could both be better defensively? And from what we have heard doesn't it also seem like DJ prefers Mete over Brannstrom? Maybe those are just rumours, but we could know more if they re-sign Mete as to what their plan is with this defence. It's still a work in progress IMO.

They will sign Mete no doubt. They should anyways.

I would not be surprised if Brannstrom became a casualty when Sanderson gets here.

How I see things play out:

Mete is re-signed
They include Brannstrom in a package for a center
They sign or trade for a stop gap (1 year) until Sanderson comes over.

 

[salomonster]

I'm really hoping the SENS pursue a trade to get Seth Jones. He would solve the top 4 search and we have the assets to get him...

Jone's got 1 more on his deal so PD should be trying.

 

[PlayOn]

I think Brannstrom’s value will go up in the next few years just by virtue of him gaining strength, experience and ice time.

He’s someone I would hold onto, give him big minutes to develop next year before Sanderson gets here and then at some point, we can likely deal from a position of strength and move him in a package for a position of need.

If he reaches his offensive potential, he’s destined to be a cap casualty based on Chabot/Sanderson being ahead of him but that’s not a short-term problem. Unless the Sens don’t believe in his potential anymore, there’s more value to be gained by holding onto him than moving him.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

A 20th overall pick, like Ceulemans is expected to be, has only a small fraction of a chance of becoming a regular NHL'er. Why would the team trade a 21yo 1st round pick who developed into an NHL'er for a handful of magic beans?

Absolutely this. It's especially poignant because Ceulemans hasn't even played at the major junior level. He's played as well in the AJHL as Brannstrom has in the AHL.

Not to mention that Brannstrom just scored at a 35 point pace (for a regular season) in the NHL while being a + 3 on a team that was heavily outscored over the year.

Hell, Ceulemans could conceivably be available in the early second round.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

I'm really hoping the SENS pursue a trade to get Seth Jones. He would solve the top 4 search and we have the assets to get him...

Jone's got 1 more on his deal so PD should be trying.

Really not a fan of putting ourselves in another Ryan/Duchene situation, giving up big assets then either overpaying to keep the player or trading them for less a year later. I’d rather go after someone with term or team control, or just a cheaper stop gap while we see what we have with our RD prospects.

 

[PlayOn]

Really not a fan of putting ourselves in another Ryan/Duchene situation, giving up big assets then either overpaying to keep the player or trading them for less a year later. I’d rather go after someone with term or team control, or just a cheaper stop gap while we see what we have with our RD prospects.

Agree 100%. Successful rebuilds take time, no way around it. Making aggressive moves might accelerate it a bit but I’m not sure it leaves us in a better position to win.

Sens have and will continue to have question marks for the next couple of years - we should be making smaller deals to improve the team, but big moves should be reserved for teams with established cores and clear ideas of what their gaps are. I don’t think we will know until our prospects and young players have more experience and there is no way to fast track that.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm really hoping the SENS pursue a trade to get Seth Jones. He would solve the top 4 search and we have the assets to get him...

Jone's got 1 more on his deal so PD should be trying.

I don't really think we need to solve the top 4 right now, Chabot, Sanderson, Zub, and JBD to me looks pretty promising, add in Brannstrom Zaitsev and Thomson and we've got 7 NHL Dmen. Jones is overkill imo, I think we get a better return on our investment looking for a number one center that we currently lack, or a lower cost top 4 Dman (think a guy like Muzzin). Jones is more of a number one guy, and we have Chabot and Sanderson who can fill that role.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Agreed that we don't need to make a move for a D or a F right now.

Ideally we get an upgrade but we have some time before it becomes a necessity.

Not the best timing to get locked in to a big contract outside of Tkachuk (I wish... He's getting a bridge deal...).

 

[Sweatred]

What do you think happens to Brannstrom when Sanderson arrives? Do you think they will move him to his offside given that DJ doesn't seem to want to do that? Would Brannstron be able to beat out JBD and/or Thomson on the right side long term given they could both be better defensively? And from what we have heard doesn't it also seem like DJ prefers Mete over Brannstrom? Maybe those are just rumours, but we could know more if they re-sign Mete as to what their plan is with this defence. It's still a work in progress IMO.

Not sure ? Personally I like Brann over Mete but we may be able to sell higher on Brann. Mid range I could see Sanderson playing the right side if needed.

Mete really doesn’t do anything with the puck inside the blue line. If he can improve that part of his game maybe we move Brann. Brann could easily lead this teams defence in points
Next year with decent ice time. He may have the best shot and he is teams best passer. I’m not closed to the idea of trading Chabot in a few years either.

 

[BondraTime]

I'm really hoping the SENS pursue a trade to get Seth Jones. He would solve the top 4 search and we have the assets to get him...

Jone's got 1 more on his deal so PD should be trying.

Don’t think there’s a snowballs chance in hell he forgoes UFA to sign with the Sens.

We’d give up a ton, and would only get a year out of him.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Agreed that we don't need to make a move for a D or a F right now.

Ideally we get an upgrade but we have some time before it becomes a necessity.

Not the best timing to get locked in to a big contract outside of Tkachuk (I wish... He's getting a bridge deal...).

If there's a time to trade for a D it's before expansion.

We only have Chabot and Zaitsev to protect. We could protect Mete but he wouldn't be much of a loss if he was exposed and taken by Vegas. Actually probably would be preferable to losing Gustavsson/Daccord.

Should utilize our extra protection slot by acquiring a solid D. Ideally someone who is more of a defensive D that can play either side and is young enough to fit in with the group. Good targets would be Orlov, Zadorov, Nutivaara, etc...

 

[Silencio]

Ottawa hockey insiders speculate on Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to the Senators. Hmmm | Edmonton Journal

Whole lotta snark in that article lol

That said, the author is probably right. I don't see why RNH would want to go to a rebuilding team at this point in his career unless Ottawa overpays him ridiculously, which isn't happening.

 

[Crosside]

Whole lotta snark in that article lol

That said, the author is probably right. I don't see why RNH would want to go to a rebuilding team at this point in his career unless Ottawa overpays him ridiculously, which isn't happening.

Rebuilding team , just one or two years to not make playoff . After probably good years coming, if I m a player that have to choice . Ottawa would be a place I considered before a good team but close to go on rebuild

 

[Do Make Say Think]

If there's a time to trade for a D it's before expansion.

We only have Chabot and Zaitsev to protect. We could protect Mete but he wouldn't be much of a loss if he was exposed and taken by Vegas. Actually probably would be preferable to losing Gustavsson/Daccord.

Should utilize our extra protection slot by acquiring a solid D. Ideally someone who is more of a defensive D that can play either side and is young enough to fit in with the group. Good targets would be Orlov, Zadorov, Nutivaara, etc...

This is true, there is a window of opportunity due to the expansion draft.

However I'd caution against taking on anyone with a lot of term even if the timing to make a trade is good.

 

[Tuna99]

Alfie was not underpaid and there is no dispute about the contract being for cap

"When I did my last contract for four years ending in the (2012-13) season, I was asked to help the team manage the salary cap by adding on a extra year to my contract. I agreed. Each side fully expected I would retire and not play the 2012-13 season," he said at an Ottawa gymnasium on Thursday. That contract lasted from 2009-13 and paid him $7 million in the first two seasons, $4.5 million in the third and $1 million in the fourth.
At some point, though, Alfredsson decided not to retire. In 2012, when it came time to negotiate a new contract, he said, he reminded them of the agreement and wanted recompense. It wasn't coming, Alfredsson said, so talks derailed,

So it is over money. He said it was, the team seems to say it was.

I don’t understand this theory that they made a good move by not giving Alfie a contract. Stupid move, but even stupider reasons

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

Rebuilding team , just one or two years to not make playoff . After probably good years coming, if I m a player that have to choice . Ottawa would be a place I considered before a good team but close to go on rebuild

Agreed. I’d rather go to a team on the up than a team trending downwards. Ottawa will be in the playoffs soon, look how going to a contender has gone for Karlsson and Duchene (though Nashville did get in this year, seems like they were pretty close to blowing everything up a few months ago).

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Every draft is about finding magic beans. We clearly disagree what Brannstrom is or has become, IMO he is a bubble player at best at this time. He may get better with more ice time next yr, but IMO he is holding the position until Sanderson decides to leave school. And if it comes down to Mete or Brannstrom for that last spot I think they would go with Mete.

I think Seattle will select Tierny in the expansion draft & IMO the next best centre to replace him is L. Brown, if healthy. I also think that L. Brown is much better than Tierny offensively although at this time Tierny's defensive & two way play is still much better & Brown has a ways to go to be a decent two way player, but he could learn it on the 4th line. I certainly don't see it being any worse than what we have gotten from Tierny this past yr.

I'm not thinking of just next season, I'm looking at the long term & think Ceulemans RD has the potential to be a top 4 defenceman & plays the side the Sens need more depth, I simply don't see that in Brannstrom especially defensively. IMO he is a PP specialist that Ottawa doesn't need given that Chabot will play at least half of the PP & Sanderson the other half & he hasn't really shown much in terms of offence at this level yet. He will probably be given next yr to show what he can do or be, but once Sanderson arrives it's anyone's guess as to what happens to Brann given this coach is reluctant & understandably so to play him on his offside.

Brannstrom still needs to work on parts of his game but saying he's shown little offense just makes you look silly. He was 53rd in PPG for defensemen who played 20 or more games in the NHL this year, at age 21. He scored at higher rate than Erik Karlsson, Shea Weber, Matt Dumba and Cam Fowler to name a few. Of the players who scored at a higher PPG than Brannstrom exactly zero had less ice time per game.

He only scored 3 points on the PP as well so his production was mainly at even strength. If you want to say he's a powerplay specialist then you're not really paying attention.

Throw in the fact that he and Zub were the only regular D on the team who finished as plus players and I think that maybe trading him for a guy who played decent hockey for the Brooks Bandits in the AJHL is more than a little risky.

 

[Silencio]

Brannstrom still needs to work on parts of his game but saying he's shown little offense just makes you look silly. He was 53rd in PPG for defensemen who played 20 or more games in the NHL this year, at age 21. He scored at higher rate than Erik Karlsson, Shea Weber, Matt Dumba and Cam Fowler to name a few. Of the players who scored at a higher PPG than Brannstrom exactly zero had less ice time per game.

He only scored 3 points on the PP as well so his production was mainly at even strength. If you want to say he's a powerplay specialist then you're not really paying attention.

Throw in the fact that he and Zub were the only regular D on the team who finished as plus players and I think that maybe trading him for a guy who played decent hockey for the Brooks Bandits in the AJHL is more than a little risky.

And he's still just 21 years old, even though it feels like he's been around forever at this point.

 

[BankStreetParade]

He was the lowest paid player on his team his last year here - I guess I’m wrong

you’re basing this in an era we’re mike fisher was an elite #2 Center and making $1.5 million: the economics have changed for a $40 million Cap when the elite players got paid and the middle guys got squeezed.

Alfie left over money and a lack of it for him, so to say he was paid properly just isn’t true for 2 people at least, me and Alfie

Wrong, disingenuous and obtuse. I can't be bothered to have a discussion with someone who'll so grossly misrepresent objective facts. I included C.H.% on purpose yet you somehow dismiss the entire premise because the NHL had a $40 million cap for one year. Just brutal.

 

[Sweatred]

If there's a time to trade for a D it's before expansion.
..

It may be hard to get teams to trade their exposed players - if they move say their decent exposed 4D they expose their next D potentially losing their 4 and 5D...

Their maybe a few teams who don’t have that exposure risk at 5D but they will lose someone.