Trade Deadline 23/24

[HF92]

Not saying anything about your comment by the way @bobber specifically by the way haha

 

[bobber]

trust me it didn’t go over my head. I stated above I don’t put much stock into the power rankings.

Still trying to figure out how you’ve come to the conclusion the rankings are off due to players missing for WJC lol


Just sounds like there’s a ton of discredit to teams that have consistently been in the top 5 all year long in the standings , now that they’re on the power rankings. I mean hell we have OHL Media calling the Soo Greyhounds pretenders.
( two teams consistently at the top of west SSM/KIT, the two teams I believe are stronger than Saginaw because they haven’t made ANY moves where as Saginaw has already shaped half their team lol )

The Soo is well managed and always seems like a well coached team from my point of view. The reason I say the rankings are skewed somewhat is because it's a weekly deal. If a top team has a depleted line up and has a three in three and comes out on the losing end it effects the ranking somewhat. Personally I think the Rangers are actually not as strong as they were with Martin healthy and Hamara and Schmitd on the team. They actually got younger and the defense isn't where it should be. Rangers haven't put in too many 60 minute efforts in the last ten games or so.

 

[OMG67]

The Soo is well managed and always seems like a well coached team from my point of view. The reason I say the rankings are skewed somewhat is because it's a weekly deal. If a top team has a depleted line up and has a three in three and comes out on the losing end it effects the ranking somewhat. Personally I think the Rangers are actually not as strong as they were with Martin healthy and Hamara and Schmitd on the team. They actually got younger and the defense isn't where it should be. Rangers haven't put in too many 60 minute efforts in the last ten games or so.

I’m not too sure the Power Rankings don’t consider all of that. The whole idea of the power rankings is to rate the team and that is a component. Most official power rankings for pro sports do take certain factors into account like injuries and strength of schedule etc.

Niagara beat Ottawa and Kingston and lost to NB by a goal. If it were based a lot more on week to week performance, Niagara would have popped into the top 16. They are also 4-6 in their last 10 and they beat the Rangers a week or two ago.

I feel the Power rankings are a much more accurate depiction of the state of the league.

 

[bobber]

I’m not too sure the Power Rankings don’t consider all of that. The whole idea of the power rankings is to rate the team and that is a component. Most official power rankings for pro sports do take certain factors into account like injuries and strength of schedule etc.

Niagara beat Ottawa and Kingston and lost to NB by a goal. If it were based a lot more on week to week performance, Niagara would have popped into the top 16. They are also 4-6 in their last 10 and they beat the Rangers a week or two ago.

True. Not sure what it means to the average fan. Who uses this measurement?

 

[OMG67]

True. Not sure what it means to the average fan. Who uses this measurement?

Stuff like that isn’t meant for, nor targets the average fan. I think it is meant for those that tend to follow the league more closely. At the end of the day, it is meaningless but it is another way for the league to engage with fans. It also can be a reference point for journalists or casual followers that aren’t very familiar with the league and want some context on the standings or relative strength of a certain team. Although, the latter is a bit of a stretch.

 

[RangerNation]

In this case, the power rankings are to create hype around the league. You can't possibly take them too seriously when a team can move up 8 spots in a week, and when the league "isn't sure who should be in first" another week. They are fun to look at and discuss, but meaningless in the end.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

In this case, the power rankings are to create hype around the league. You can't possibly take them too seriously when a team can move up 8 spots in a week, and when the league "isn't sure who should be in first" another week. They are fun to look at and discuss, but meaningless in the end.

It's just a way for the league to create more fan engagement on social media

 

[beastintheeast]

HF92 what I said was a simple fact. Looking at league points the Rangers are first in the league at this point in time. This is a real measuring stick. Actually a rebuild year for the Rangers where they found a horse shoe and had some players step up their games unexpectedly. I have my doubts they stay where they are. This is what counts not phony ranking that changes by the week. If you want to spin it your way and that makes you happy all the more power to you. Any OHL fan has the mental capacity to understand which teams are contenders this season and which are not expects these teams to be at the top of the rankings week in and out. The only way they drop out is if their GM decides to sell off his top players. It's the same with the CHL rankings that come out. They don't always produce the over all champion.

I think you can rank Saginaw and Sudbury ahead of Kitchener and London; they both have more of a need and, more importantly, more assets to trade. Soo would probably be 3rd.

It all depends on what people are looking for.

Unfortunately, I think the market again is going to get held up because of the WJC. Until Beck gets traded, there are going to be many teams in that hunt, and others like Ludwinski, Stonehouse Melee, and other forwards will be the afterthought for the losers in the Beck market.

The defence is not so bad, as there is not a standout. Mayer is definitely good, but there are others that teams could try for.

The only other area in the trade world is the East division where there is no sure number 1 team. Any one of the teams could make the decision that the division is so weak that they are going to go for it.

 

[OMG67]

I think you can rank Saginaw and Sudbury ahead of Kitchener and London; they both have more of a need and, more importantly, more assets to trade. Soo would probably be 3rd.

It all depends on what people are looking for.

Unfortunately, I think the market again is going to get held up because of the WJC. Until Beck gets traded, there are going to be many teams in that hunt, and others like Ludwinski, Stonehouse Melee, and other forwards will be the afterthought for the losers in the Beck market.

The defence is not so bad, as there is not a standout. Mayer is definitely good, but there are others that teams could try for.

The only other area in the trade world is the East division where there is no sure number 1 team. Any one of the teams could make the decision that the division is so weak that they are going to go for it.

I think the Beck deal will be completed but not announced prior to the WJHC being completed. In most cases I think the teams know where the studs are going and it doesn’t usually halt the market very long. Additionally, there will be a lot of teams this year that may want to buy but aren’t willing pay the asking prices for guys like Beck or Nelson. Those tams will move on and make their deals for the secondary players you listed.

If it turns out there are a handful of elite players available similar to last year then I take that back. The market will wait on guys like Beck and Nelson. Outside of Beck, there may not even be a second elite player available. That is why I don’t think it will be a secret where he ends up going.

 

[bobber]

I think the Beck deal will be completed but not announced prior to the WJHC being completed. In most cases I think the teams know where the studs are going and it doesn’t usually halt the market very long. Additionally, there will be a lot of teams this year that may want to buy but aren’t willing pay the asking prices for guys like Beck or Nelson. Those tams will move on and make their deals for the secondary players you listed.

If it turns out there are a handful of elite players available similar to last year then I take that back. The market will wait on guys like Beck and Nelson. Outside of Beck, there may not even be a second elite player available. That is why I don’t think it will be a secret where he ends up going.

OMG we haven't seen a lot of Beck because he is in the east. He is a point per game player sitting at about 20th in points league wide with about 30 points total. A minus 2. He must be a top 200 foot player to be the "big fish". Is Beck as good as some other top players being mentioned in trades over the last few seasons?

 

[scotty171]

I think the Beck deal will be completed but not announced prior to the WJHC being completed. In most cases I think the teams know where the studs are going and it doesn’t usually halt the market very long. Additionally, there will be a lot of teams this year that may want to buy but aren’t willing pay the asking prices for guys like Beck or Nelson. Those tams will move on and make their deals for the secondary players you listed.

If it turns out there are a handful of elite players available similar to last year then I take that back. The market will wait on guys like Beck and Nelson. Outside of Beck, there may not even be a second elite player available. That is why I don’t think it will be a secret where he ends up going.

Depends on what Flint does I guess. They have a few in the upper level of potential available talent. But you are right, there doesn't seem to be a lot of high end players available this year. Maybe we will be surprised.

 

[OMG67]

OMG we haven't seen a lot of Beck because he is in the east. He is a point per game player sitting at about 20th in points league wide with about 30 points total. A minus 2. He must be a top 200 foot player to be the "big fish". Is Beck as good as some other top players being mentioned in trades over the last few seasons?

I have personally questioned this myself. I do not believe he is an elite scorer. He has never demonstrated elite scoring. However, he is a solid 200 foot player that can play the body. Most suggest he is a good on ice and off ice leader.

I feel he is overrated as an impact OHL player. He is a great NHL prospect. I think he will end up being a really good 2nd line centre. I think he falls under the category of artificially elevated worth based on his NHL prospect status as opposed to his immediate OHL impact.

So, what all this means from my perspective is whether a team needs that sort of player. I have stated on the Saginaw bard that Beck is not a fit with them at all. I think it woudl be a waste for them. They already have Sapovaliv who fits much of the same role and Hay who is more defensive. I don’t think they need help in that regard.

If you look at the Petes last year with an all out offensive first line, they benefitted greatly from what Beck brought to the table. I think Sudbury would benefit from Beck the most. I think they need that leadership and calm approach. Someone that can square up that room. He would be uber valuable to that team vs Saginaw which means Sudbury would easily be willing to trade more Becuase of the impact.

Depends on what Flint does I guess. They have a few in the upper level of potential available talent. But you are right, there doesn't seem to be a lot of high end players available this year. Maybe we will be surprised.

If Barlow were to become available, he’d be #1. If NElson were to become available, he would be #2. Beck would then be #3 IMO.

 

[Petes1987]

OMG we haven't seen a lot of Beck because he is in the east. He is a point per game player sitting at about 20th in points league wide with about 30 points total. A minus 2. He must be a top 200 foot player to be the "big fish". Is Beck as good as some other top players being mentioned in trades over the last few seasons?

Owen Beck is above a point a game player with 16 goals and 14 assists for 30 points in 25 games played. He is in on pace for 80 plus point season. He is one of the best face off players in the OHL. He is 200 foot player which any team that wants to win a championship needs.

 

[OMG67]

Owen Beck is above a point a game player with 16 goals and 14 assists for 30 points in 25 games played. He is in on pace for 80 plus point season. He is one of the best face off players in the OHL. He is 200 foot player which any team that wants to win a championship needs.

Unless they already have one of those guys and have needs in other areas.

You cannot just blanket suggest that every team needs Beck. That is simply not true.

Saginaw already has a very similar player with Sapovaliv. They don’t “need” Beck To win a Championship.

I agree with the statement like, a team that wants to win a Championship needs a player “like” Beck. Beck isn’t the only guy that has all those attributes. It is great being 63% in the dot but 54% is good too, especially when that player possesses all the other attributes.

Over 1500 Faceoff attempts, Saginaw averages 53+%. They don’t “need” help.

 

[OHLTG]

You have to be smart about trades. Why give up a ton of assets if it's only going to enhance an already strong part of your game? Trades should be about shoring up weaknesses, even if that means your rivals get the guy you really wanted.

 

[OMG67]

You have to be smart about trades. Why give up a ton of assets if it's only going to enhance an already strong part of your game? Trades should be about shoring up weaknesses, even if that means your rivals get the guy you really wanted.

That sensibility is lost on many.

 

[Bra Wavers]

Unless they already have one of those guys and have needs in other areas.

You cannot just blanket suggest that every team needs Beck. That is simply not true.

Saginaw already has a very similar player with Sapovaliv. They don’t “need” Beck To win a Championship.

I agree with the statement like, a team that wants to win a Championship needs a player “like” Beck. Beck isn’t the only guy that has all those attributes. It is great being 63% in the dot but 54% is good too, especially when that player possesses all the other attributes.

Over 1500 Faceoff attempts, Saginaw averages 53+%. They don’t “need” help.

I agree that Saginaw doesn’t need Owen Beck to get to the Memorial Cup.

 

[OMG67]

I agree that Saginaw doesn’t need Owen Beck to get to the Memorial Cup.

Excuse me, sir, but I am the only clown allowed to hang around here.

Thank you.

 

[beastintheeast]

I think the best Beck deal is him and Mayer to Sudbury. That gives them what is missing: team players who can put the individual players in their place and have the credibility to do it. It also shores up their defence.

 

[EvenSteven]

I have personally questioned this myself. I do not believe he is an elite scorer. He has never demonstrated elite scoring. However, he is a solid 200 foot player that can play the body. Most suggest he is a good on ice and off ice leader.

I feel he is overrated as an impact OHL player. He is a great NHL prospect. I think he will end up being a really good 2nd line centre. I think he falls under the category of artificially elevated worth based on his NHL prospect status as opposed to his immediate OHL impact.

So, what all this means from my perspective is whether a team needs that sort of player. I have stated on the Saginaw bard that Beck is not a fit with them at all. I think it woudl be a waste for them. They already have Sapovaliv who fits much of the same role and Hay who is more defensive. I don’t think they need help in that regard.

If you look at the Petes last year with an all out offensive first line, they benefitted greatly from what Beck brought to the table. I think Sudbury would benefit from Beck the most. I think they need that leadership and calm approach. Someone that can square up that room. He would be uber valuable to that team vs Saginaw which means Sudbury would easily be willing to trade more Becuase of the impact.



If Barlow were to become available, he’d be #1. If NElson were to become available, he would be #2. Beck would then be #3 IMO.

Great post!!!

Not that the Rangers could outbid a Sudbury on Beck, but like Saginaw with Sapovalov, the Rangers already have a player in Matthew Sop, who is “like” Beck, that does everything that Petes1987 said that Beck does. Imo, to trade for Beck would be a sideways move for the Rangers.

Kitchener needs help in other areas. As OHLTG said, “Trades should be about shoring up weaknesses”.

Kitchener’s weakness right now is depth at both forward and D.

 

[OMG67]

Great post!!!

Not that the Rangers could outbid a Sudbury on Beck, but like Saginaw with Sapovalov, the Rangers already have a player in Matthew Sop, who is “like” Beck, that does everything that Petes1987 said that Beck does. Imo, to trade for Beck would be a sideways move for the Rangers.

Kitchener needs help in other areas. As OHLTG said, “Trades should be about shoring up weaknesses”.

Kitchener’s weakness right now is depth at both forward and D.

Even Sudbury may be a stretch to be honest. They need to improve their special teams. In particular, their PP. Mayer is probably a much better fit. Maybe a goaltender?

Sault and Guelph may be better destinations for Beck.

 

[Petes]

Even Sudbury may be a stretch to be honest. They need to improve their special teams. In particular, their PP. Mayer is probably a much better fit. Maybe a goaltender?

Sault and Guelph may be better destinations for Beck.

You know what’s a great asset to have on the PK…. Winning the faceoff

 

[Kingpin794]

If Saginaw drops out of the Beck race eventually, I wonder if they go back to their old friend Barrie? Beau Jelsma? I'm sure conditionals would be there for an OA season.

 

[ohloutsider]

If Saginaw drops out of the Beck race eventually, I wonder if they go back to their old friend Barrie? Beau Jelsma? I'm sure conditionals would be there for an OA season.

Agree, Jelsma not getting much traction in the trade discussion but he is likely available for the right price and would be an excellent upgrade for most teams.

 

[OMG67]

You know what’s a great asset to have on the PK…. Winning the faceoff

Petes are 77.8% on the PK and both of the faceoff guys for their PK are over 60%. Saginaw is 85.5%. It isn’t overrated but it is a small part of the success. When you have guys on your team that are in the 54% range and possess all the other elements Beck possesses, there is no reason to go get Beck “if” the cost is a very strong prospect player plus multiple 2nds and 3rds. Those assets can be better spent filing other gaps.