Speculation: Trade Deadline 2022 - Part II

[JohnHodgson]

Seems like a Vancouver cap dump to me. I get we move dobby but that’s moving his last year for a couple more years of Myers and Dickinson. That’s not a wise use of cap space when you can sign players for cheaper who offer the same.

How would you replace Klingberg? Myers is a minute munching dman that is having a pretty good year.

There might be two or three guys on the market that can fill that void?

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

How would you replace Klingberg? Myers is a minute munching dman that is having a pretty good year.

There might be two or three guys on the market that can fill that void?

Are you asking how we would replace him or how Jim Nill would?

Because Nill will probably find the oldest ufa dman and give him 4yrs

 

[BG44]

How else would you replace Klingberg? What's a realistic target?

It makes no sense on multiple levels, but since you're going to press the issue let's just look at it from the salary cap POV.

You're graciously offering to eat a single season of Khdobin for the cost of a Middle 6 winger, and you've benevolently allowed Dallas to add $8.65 million in cap space for 2 more seasons likely making it impossible to re-sign Roope Hintz unless they slash salary elsewhere.

It's a no. It makes no sense. Dallas may, and probably should, pay to dump Khudobin, but they're not going to use a Middle 6 roster player to facilitate that, and they're definitely not going to take $8 million + in salary for a Bottom 6 forward and a guy that will be a 4 or 5 defender in Dallas for 2 years.

Serious question though to you ... you actually think it's going to be hard to come up with other options other than Myers as a potential Klingberg replacement? Was that going to stump serp?

 

[JohnHodgson]

Are you asking how we would replace him or how Jim Nill would?

Because Nill will probably find the oldest ufa dman and give him 4yrs

Doesn't matter.

There's few options for you guys to replace Klingberg - Myers would be one of them.

 

[JohnHodgson]

It makes no sense on multiple levels, but since you're going to press the issue let's just look at it from the salary cap POV.

You're graciously offering to eat a single season of Khdobin for the cost of a Middle 6 winger, and you've benevolently allowed Dallas to add $8.65 million in cap space for 2 more seasons likely making it impossible to re-sign Roope Hintz unless they slash salary elsewhere.

It's a no. It makes no sense. Dallas may, and probably should, pay to dump Khudobin, but they're not going to use a Middle 6 roster player to facilitate that, and they're definitely not going to take $8 million + in salary for a Bottom 6 forward and a guy that will be a 4 or 5 defender in Dallas for 2 years.

Serious question though to you ... you actually think it's going to be hard to come up with other options other than Myers as a potential Klingberg replacement? Was that going to stump serp?

Gurianov needs a new deal. He'll likely be asking for something between 3.5-4. A little disingenuous to say that Dallas is adding $8.65M in cap.

Gurianov + Khudobin comes to around $6M, so the Canucks are only saving $2.65M in cap space - not exactly a big amount of cap.

Wouldn't Pavelski's money go straight to Hintz?

 

[BG44]

Are you asking how we would replace him or how Jim Nill would?

Because Nill will probably find the oldest ufa dman and give him 4yrs

We can kill 2 birds with one stone, and I don't even want this to happen.

1) Name a player better than Myers that could replace Klingberg: Petry

2) Name how Nill probably replaces Klingberg: Petry

The real answer is you're not replacing Klingberg when they lose him. Heiskanen is great, and he may have even better offensive production to unlock, but at this point, we have to acknowledge he's not shown he can run a PP like Klingberg, and some people will rightfully argue he's not been given a chance to either. That's good and bad of what will happen because the obvious answer is Heiskanen is going to replace Klingberg's significant PP minutes. It could be wonderful with no drop-off or maybe even better production, or at worst it's probably a noticeable dropoff but still quality minutes.

That means replacing Heiskanen's 2nd PP minutes, and there is already a logical, inexpensive way to handle that internally with Harley.

Like any elite player a team loses, Klingberg is going to get replaced by committee. Nill probably goes with a more defensive-leaning guy to replace his ES minutes meaning he's also gained another PK option if he's the guy making the decision.

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

Doesn't matter.

There's few options for you guys to replace Klingberg - Myers would be one of them.

There's a lot of options and Myers isn't a particularly good one, at least in terms of replacing klingberg, except for the fact that they're both right defensemen there is nothing that Myers brings that replaces what Klingberg does.

 

[BG44]

Gurianov needs a new deal. He'll likely be asking for something between 3.5-4. A little disingenuous to say that Dallas is adding $8.65M in cap.

Gurianov + Khudobin comes to around $6M, so the Canucks are only saving $2.65M in cap space - not exactly a big amount of cap.

Wouldn't Pavelski's money go straight to Hintz?

You're clearly making no effort whatsoever to consider this from the Dallas perspective. That's all that really matters here, and you're refusing to take no for an answer. It's the worst thing about trade proposals on HF ... doubling down and continuing to ignore the other team's perspective.

 

[RefalancheStillLose]

Gurianov needs a new deal. He'll likely be asking for something between 3.5-4. A little disingenuous to say that Dallas is adding $8.65M in cap.

Gurianov + Khudobin comes to around $6M, so the Canucks are only saving $2.65M in cap space - not exactly a big amount of cap.

Wouldn't Pavelski's money go straight to Hintz?

Gurianov isn't getting anywhere near that

We can kill 2 birds with one stone, and I don't even want this to happen.

1) Name a player better than Myers that could replace Klingberg: Petry

2) Name how Nill probably replaces Klingberg: Petry

The real answer is you're not replacing Klingberg when they lose him. Heiskanen is great, and he may have even better offensive production to unlock, but at this point, we have to acknowledge he's not shown he can run a PP like Klingberg, and some people will rightfully argue he's not been given a chance to either. That's good and bad of what will happen because the obvious answer is Heiskanen is going to replace Klingberg's significant PP minutes. It could be wonderful with no drop-off or maybe even better production, or at worst it's probably a noticeable dropoff but still quality minutes.

That means replacing Heiskanen's 2nd PP minutes, and there is already a logical, inexpensive way to handle that internally with Harley.

Like any elite player a team loses, Klingberg is going to get replaced by committee. Nill probably goes with a more defensive-leaning guy to replace his ES minutes meaning he's also gained another PK option if he's the guy making the decision.

We're changing his name to "he who sall not be named" we don't want that out there in the ether in case it somehow wills this trade into existence

 

[BG44]

Gurianov isn't getting anywhere near that

I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said about Gurianov.

The other obvious thing here, and we can just use position types because I know everyone isn't a Gurianov fan, they aren't going to replace his approximate $3 million cap hit for another Bottom 6 forward when they already are hard-pressed to find scoring. They're not going to be able to have a Radulov-type contract in the next 2 to 3 years, but it's safe to assume they're going to have a $3 million or so forward earmarked for the Top 9 to help with depth scoring. It could be Gurianov, and it could be a different guy. It's not going to be Jason Dickinson.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Gurianov isn't getting anywhere near that

We're changing his name to "he who sall not be named" we don't want that out there in the ether in case it somehow wills this trade into existence

LOL?

Jake Debrusk, a comparable, just signed for 2 years 4M per. Any middle six forward is going to be signing in this range.

How is Gurianov not getting anywhere near 3.5-4?

 

[JohnHodgson]

You're clearly making no effort whatsoever to consider this from the Dallas perspective. That's all that really matters here, and you're refusing to take no for an answer. It's the worst thing about trade proposals on HF ... doubling down and continuing to ignore the other team's perspective.

Not really… I’m just trying to understand who’s going to replace Klingberg’s minutes?

No one has really had a good answer so far, despite shitting on the idea of a Myers deal.

 

[BG44]

LOL?

Jake Debrusk, a comparable, just signed for 2 years 4M per. Any middle six forward is going to be signing in this range.

How is Gurianov not getting anywhere near 3.5-4?

Jason Debrusk
Season: 15 G - 11 A - 26 Pts
Projected: 20 G - 15 A - 35 Pts
Career: 82 G - 78 A - 160 Pts - 0.53 PPG
QO: $4,410,000

Denis Gurianov
Season: 11 G - 18 A - 29 Pts
Projected: 15 G - 24 A - 39 Pts
Career: 44G - 48A - 92 Pts - 0.46 PPG
QO: $2,900,000

Dallas isn't going to give him a 2-year deal to carry him to UFA, and DeBrusk's QO had a significant impact on his contract. Worst case scenario an arb might give him $3.5, but he's not going to get a significant raise when his production has remained steady but slightly below his production prior to signing the contract. That's not an attack on the player, but it is the reality of what an arbitrator will look at. If Denis is back on the team, he'll probably be closer to $3 than $3.5 on a 1-year deal. It's plausible he even just signs the QO.

 

[BG44]

Not really… I’m just trying to understand who’s going to replace Klingberg’s minutes?

No one has really had a good answer so far, despite shitting on the idea of a Myers deal.

That's not remotely true. I posted 2 plausible scenarios that make more sense the Myers already.

We can kill 2 birds with one stone, and I don't even want this to happen.

1) Name a player better than Myers that could replace Klingberg: Petry

2) Name how Nill probably replaces Klingberg: Petry

The real answer is you're not replacing Klingberg when they lose him. Heiskanen is great, and he may have even better offensive production to unlock, but at this point, we have to acknowledge he's not shown he can run a PP like Klingberg, and some people will rightfully argue he's not been given a chance to either. That's good and bad of what will happen because the obvious answer is Heiskanen is going to replace Klingberg's significant PP minutes. It could be wonderful with no drop-off or maybe even better production, or at worst it's probably a noticeable dropoff but still quality minutes.

That means replacing Heiskanen's 2nd PP minutes, and there is already a logical, inexpensive way to handle that internally with Harley.

Like any elite player a team loses, Klingberg is going to get replaced by committee. Nill probably goes with a more defensive-leaning guy to replace his ES minutes meaning he's also gained another PK option if he's the guy making the decision.

 

[eartotheground]

Jason Debrusk
Season: 15 G - 11 A - 26 Pts
Projected: 20 G - 15 A - 35 Pts
Career: 82 G - 78 A - 160 Pts - 0.53 PPG
QO: $4,410,000

Denis Gurianov
Season: 11 G - 18 A - 29 Pts
Projected: 15 G - 24 A - 39 Pts
Career: 44G - 48A - 92 Pts - 0.46 PPG
QO: $2,900,000

Dallas isn't going to give him a 2-year deal to carry him to UFA, and DeBrusk's QO had a significant impact on his contract. Worst case scenario an arb might give him $3.5, but he's not going to get a significant raise when his production has remained steady but slightly below his production prior to signing the contract. That's not an attack on the player, but it is the reality of what an arbitrator will look at. If Denis is back on the team, he'll probably be closer to $3 than $3.5 on a 1-year deal. It's plausible he even just signs the QO.

 

[Dallasman]

Or...maybe Guri is traded for someone like DeBrusk? Maybe...

 

[Satan]

Tyler Myers is complete dog shit. Not good at defending, no longer an option on a PP1. How does he replace Klingberg outside of being a RHD?

If the Stars wanted to tank next year then I absolutely understand the rationale

 

[BG44]

Or...maybe Guri is traded for someone like DeBrusk? Maybe...

That's definitely a possibility. The question though is do you think he's going to be traded for/replaced by another Bottom 6 forward like Dickinson.

One of DeBrusk's original gripes was that he didn't want to play RW, but he's recently shown willingness to do that and found success on the RW with Bergeron. Despite that, it's known he still wants out. If Boston sees Gurianov as equal/similar and Dallas sees DeBrusk as equal/similar, it's made sense since that trade request became public that there could be a fit between the two teams. Dallas has options at RW coming both in the short term (Damiani, Dellandrea) and short/long-term (Bourque, Stankoven). It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a guy like DeBrusk behind Robertson. Boston would end up with a guy that is more comfortable at RW to play with either Hall and another center or Marchand and Bergeron.

I don't know who it's going to be, but it feels like a certainty that Dallas is going to have a $3 to $4 million winger at least over the next 1 to 3 years on the team that can be a depth scoring option. It feels improbable or impossible to afford a defensive specialist approaching that salary over the same time in addition to what is already on the team.

I'd even say this, I can't see any scenario where Dallas does 2 years, but it wouldn't surprise me if they also considered something longer with Gurianov as long as the number stayed below or around $4 million. With the approaching Hintz deal, I think it would be possible Nill wanted to bridge that gap to when Benn and virtually all of the current heavy contracts come off the books. Theoretically, there's the potential that Gurianov could price himself out of the Stars budget if he signs a 1-year deal. If Peterson's development stays steady ... he's probably looking at a similar deal as Guriaonv's bridge. If his production takes off with a bigger role next year ... you could be talking something closer to Hintz's bridge. Hell ... Peterson could tail off ... but I think Dallas is probably going to be careful with the cap and realize that Hintz will probably have some company in terms of a raise in 2023.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Not really… I’m just trying to understand who’s going to replace Klingberg’s minutes?

No one has really had a good answer so far, despite shitting on the idea of a Myers deal.

Nothing wrong with shooting down first and exploring other options later.

 

[BG44]

There's a cold-blooded path forward for Vegas.

They can still trade Dadonov to one of the 22 teams not on his NTC at any point. He won't be permitted to play the rest of the season, but Vegas will get the cap relief they want, and they could theoretically go back to Anaheim and just acquire Kesler for LTIR help. I mean ... if someone was willing to not hold them over the coals on the cost to take Dadonov ... they could still get everything they wanted AND basically, Dadonov just gets sent home for the rest of the year and can no longer play.

 

[BG44]

From a cap POV ... the plan looked pretty flawless. That part of how well crafted it was is honestly impressive. Dadonov going to Anahim gave Vegas enough cap space to have Kesler on their active roster long enough to put him back on LTIR for their team. It basically would have been an $11+ million net gain in cap space, and they would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling NTC.

 

[Kcb12345]

Official now

 

[Kcb12345]

 

[Satan]

Get f***ed Vegas

 

[eartotheground]

not that long ago someone used vegas as an example of why nill should be fired. no thank you. no org is perfect, but sheesh have they looked bad.