Confirmed with Link: [TOR] Frederik Andersen - 5 Year Extension [25 Million - AAV: 5M]

[zeke]

Perhaps it's just a case of loser mentality?

- individuals who see life from a negative perspective are simply never happy. They are pessimists who see the world as being against them. They are the constant complainers, nothing is ever done right

- over time you might notice these individuals are constantly talking “above†you. They see themselves as superior. They see their listeners to be in need of teaching

- losers are frequently stubborn and are so fixed on their own principles they can’t be swayed to try new solutions to even the simplest of problems. They are adamant and relentless in the belief that the tried and true methods still apply

...

the only ones talking "above" anyone else here are people like you in posts like these, weirdly trying to psychoanalyze anyone with reservations about this deal as a mentally damaged loser.

 

[Gary Nylund]

seems easy to argue that we settled for best easily available target instead of waiting to target a legit top target.

Ah OK, I see what you mean. I respectfully disagree though - I think the Leafs see Andersen as having a bright future and probably a top 10 goalie before long.

 

[Gary Nylund]

the only ones talking "above" anyone else here are people like you in posts like these, weirdly trying to psychoanalyze anyone with reservations about this deal as a mentally damaged loser.

Actually, it's the amateur psychoanalysis ITT that I find annoying, the idea that there's something about "this market" that just cripples players has no basis in fact yet it keeps popping up here.

 

[saltming]

Not really -- most of the big ticket things I buy -- I buy in such a fashion that I can get out of them with reasonable ease and minimal loss. Buying a TV doesn't preclude me from buying another if the 1st one turns out like crap.

Bud, honestly, if you're interested in a debate and contributing something insightful, you're in the right place. If you're interested in simply saying "trust somebody else", over and over and over, you're not adding any actual value.

So when you're buying your tv woud you trust the guy who designs builds and develos tv's or your local McDonald's drive through cashier?
There is logic in deferring to a smarter more proven capable source than yourself. Unless you truely believe you are better and have better accest to analytics and scouting than Lou and co?
I understand not blindly following but our NEW management has shown to be trustworthy. If this was nonis co I would be nervous as a hen in a **** house.
Couple that with what andersen has don, plus watching him play over the years, I'm comfortable with the 5 yer contract. It will more than likely be a steal rather than a bust.

 

[JonnyMacAwesome]

Man this thread is exciting.

2 separate debate/arguments happening...some sides ridiculous, others just looking to start more of an argument than debate... this is comedy.

Keep it up guys, you're making my drab morning at work so much better.

 

[ACC1224]

seems easy to argue that we settled for best easily available target instead of waiting to target a legit top target.

Couldn't that always be the case?

Personally I don't see why they needed to settle at this moment, no urgency to.
They made a move because the asset they identified was available and they didn't want to miss out.

I don't think anyone would have been too surprised or upset had they just rode Bernier for another year.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Actually, it's the amateur psychoanalysis ITT that I find annoying, the idea that there's something about "this market" that just cripples players has no basis in fact yet it keeps popping up here.

This is something even worth debating?

It's a fact that it's easier to play in a small market then a big market for most human beings.

There is decades of basis and numerous examples.

On the flip side the size of this market allows people to reach heights when they're successful in terms of fame that can't be reached elsewhere.

There's 2 ends to the exteme, but both are valid and true.

 

[seanlinden]

So when you're buying your tv woud you trust the guy who designs builds and develos tv's or your local McDonald's drive through cashier?
There is logic in deferring to a smarter more proven capable source than yourself. Unless you truely believe you are better and have better accest to analytics and scouting than Lou and co?
I understand not blindly following but our NEW management has shown to be trustworthy. If this was nonis co I would be nervous as a hen in a **** house.
Couple that with what andersen has don, plus watching him play over the years, I'm comfortable with the 5 yer contract. It will more than likely be a steal rather than a bust.

I trust myself.... not sure anyone who buys a TV actually gets to talk to the guy who designs/builds/develops them.

I'm not claiming that I have access to better information than Lou does -- I simply respect the inability to predict goaltenders to a much greater degree than Lou does.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Couldn't that always be the case?

Personally I don't see why they needed to settle at this moment, no urgency to.
They made a move because the asset they identified was available and they didn't want to miss out.

I don't think anyone would have been too surprised or upset had they just rode Bernier for another year.

I don't like it either.

But I moved on from it some time yesterday morning...neither side is saying anything to convince people thinking the opposite no matter how off topic people go with psychoanalysis and put downs towards other posters.

 

[JonnyMacAwesome]

Couldn't that always be the case?

Personally I don't see why they needed to settle at this moment, no urgency to.
They made a move because the asset they identified was available and they didn't want to miss out.

I don't think anyone would have been too surprised or upset had they just rode Bernier for another year.

Surprised? No.

Bothered? Incredibly.

I'm happy he'll either be shipped out or on the pine for most of the season now though.

Could have signed a pylon to be our starting goalie and I would have been more thrilled than having Blunders between the pipes for 75% of our games.

 

[UllmansTiger]

We just paid 25m and a couple 2nd round trashy picks to get a great goalie. Consider Andersen is on the same talent tier as JVR. How would you feel if you got JVR for 30th and 45th? Pretty good right? Well, enjoy the goalie.

I think he's good, not great, and I don't really buy the JVR comparison.

I am hoping to enjoy the goalie though.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I simply respect the inability to predict goaltenders to a much greater degree than Lou does.

The sad part about all of this is that you probably actually believe yourself when you say stupid things like this.

 

[seanlinden]

How would you possibly jump to that conclusion? Even if Anderson plays worse than he has shown, how would it prevent the Leafs from a Cup. Worse case you can buy him out or expose him in the expansion draft if he fails?

It's the last pick in the first round and a 2nd rounder next year. Last I checked we already have another first rounder this year and two other 2nd rounders next year.

Quite simple.

Let's say, he flops in Toronto in his first year. Sure, you can expose him in the expansion draft, but why would Vegas (or any other team) take him? He's now a goalie who's had his confidence severely damaged, and has 4 years left on a deal that pays him $5m.

So, you give him another year to try and rebound... he doesn't. At this point, he's now severely damaged goods, and nobody wants a part of him at anywhere near the $5m. So, you buy him out in the summer of 2018, as you realize, with Matthews/Marner going into the final year of their ELCs, he's holding you back.

That buyout costs you $1.6m for each of the following 6 years -- thereby preventing you from spending the same amount as anyone else.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is something even worth debating?

It's a fact that it's easier to play in a small market then a big market for most human beings.

There is decades of basis and numerous examples.

On the flip side the size of this market allows people to reach heights when they're successful in terms of fame that can't be reached elsewhere.

There's 2 ends to the exteme, but both are valid and true.

I'm not aware of any studies done showing this to be true. I do know that big markets often have very successful players/teams, this goes across many sports, not just hockey. For every example of someone failing in a big market I'll bet I could give an example of someone failing in a small market or succeeding in a big market so where does that leave us?

I try to keep an open mind so if you can show me some evidence I'll look at it. So far I haven't seen anything that comes even close.

 

[Kurtz]

seems easy to argue that we settled for best easily available target instead of waiting to target a legit top target.

Outside of arguably Bishop, do you think there was or would be a better goalie than Anderson on the market in the next 1-2 years?

 

[seanlinden]

The sad part about all of this is that you probably actually believe yourself when you say stupid things like this.

Nothing stupid about it. They are incredibly difficult, if not impossible to accurately predict. Take-away is, don't sign a guy long term unless he's proven he can be a #1.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Surprised? No.

Bothered? Incredibly.

I'm happy he'll either be shipped out or on the pine for most of the season now though.

Could have signed a pylon to be our starting goalie and I would have been more thrilled than having Blunders between the pipes for 75% of our games.

100%.

No way was Bernier coming back without serious competition.

I assumed we'd go after a cheaper option like Berra.

Not a fan of the move mainly due to the contract term, but far from the end of the world as some are trying to sell it as here.

 

[UllmansTiger]

Time will tell.
Lou says he's a no. 1 goalie.
I'm going to trust that Lou understands what that is and also understands the need for team stability in goal. That's all we can do for now. Andersen certainly has the size and ability to back up those claims.

I won't quibble with Lou, for sure, but he's been at the head of a tandem, and seemed to get beat out by Gibson in the end.

I certainly agree the Leafs feel they need stability in net, like I said before, their goalies let them down a bit in the AHL playoffs, and their NHL goalies certainly weren't anything to write home about. I just think signing, say, Chad Johnson for nothing might have been the better middle term approach while getting to play with the picks. I don't hate the deal, I question it on balance.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Nothing stupid about it. They are incredibly difficult, if not impossible to accurately predict. Take-away is, don't sign a guy long term unless he's proven he can be a #1.

I simply respect the inability to predict goaltenders to a much greater degree than Lou does.

That's what you said. You have NO IDEA what Lou put into this decision. Because you disagree with it, doesn't mean Lou gives no respect to the ability to predict goaltenders.

Maybe he already sees this guy as a top 15-20 #1 goalie and therefore sees no need to have to predict anything?

Not even trying to see the other side is why you get no respect from others.

The condescending tone and comments merely makes you stand out as a form of comic relief for those of us waiting for news to break.

 

[UllmansTiger]

This is the type of trade that takes you from being a cellar-dweller to being competitive.

Yeah, I don't know, the Leafs need a lot of work across the board for that. They didn't trade for Price.

 

[Grimmas]

Quite simple.

Let's say, he flops in Toronto in his first year. Sure, you can expose him in the expansion draft, but why would Vegas (or any other team) take him? He's now a goalie who's had his confidence severely damaged, and has 4 years left on a deal that pays him $5m.

So, you give him another year to try and rebound... he doesn't. At this point, he's now severely damaged goods, and nobody wants a part of him at anywhere near the $5m. So, you buy him out in the summer of 2018, as you realize, with Matthews/Marner going into the final year of their ELCs, he's holding you back.

That buyout costs you $1.6m for each of the following 6 years -- thereby preventing you from spending the same amount as anyone else.

It's unlikely he drops off that much, but say he does. 1.6M of cap space prevents us from winning the Cup?

 

[91Stammer*]

I absolutely love this deal. I would do the same deal over and over again, let's take a look at Buffalo's trade.

To Buf
Robin Lehner
David Legwand (cap dump)

To Ott
21st overall 2015

A potential starter with health issues for his entire career fetched a 21st overall in the draft that was considered very deep and had players like Bracco and Timashov go in 2nd (can be considered 3rd as 61st overall) and 5th rounds.

We traded 30th overall and a 2nd in 2017 which will probably be a mid to late 2nd and we took no cap dumps, all this for a goalie who has started more games for a playoff team, is a bonafied starter and has no health issues for a 30th overall in a draft that isn't deep and an unknown 2nd.

We absolutely win this trade if Anaheim doesn't hit gold with one of those picks. This deal alone makes us equal in the Tor-Pit trade for Phil Kessel. Yes he is not considered starter or a very good goalie as of now but every single one of Anaheim fan is salty about seeing him go because of the circumstances and has nothing but praise for the player.

This management hasn't given me any reason to doubt them whatsoever, so why doubt them now when there is no proof of Andersen being a bust already? I put my faith in Andersen and our management and am very excited for the draft tonight as well as next season.

 

[UllmansTiger]

Outside of arguably Bishop, do you think there was or would be a better goalie than Anderson on the market in the next 1-2 years?

That's a really good question.

 

[4thline]

Yeah, I disagree, wholeheartedly. The only way a team should have confidence in a guy being a #1, is if he's already played as a #1. Goaltending is simply far too unpredictable.

ALike I said to thewave, this isn't a debate over whether Andersen has a better chance of becoming an upper echelon starter versus the 30th overall pick. He damn well better considering he not only cost the 30th, but a 2nd, and $5m over each of the next 5 years.

BThis is a debate over whether it was in the Leafs best interest, in mind of building a cup winner for a few years from now, to be trading 2 high draft picks for a goalie who's played 2 years as the front half of a tandem, and sign him to a 5 year deal at $5m.

And to a rational mind, B is inextricably linked to A. "Two high picks" don't hold intrinsic value because they are "high picks" their value is firmly rooted in the on ice result (in terms of players) that those picks can deliver. If the return in the trade is greater in terms of on ice value for the time period intended than the picks would likely deliver than the trade is in the best interests of fielding the best possible team in said period.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Quite simple.

Let's say, he flops in Toronto in his first year. Sure, you can expose him in the expansion draft, but why would Vegas (or any other team) take him? He's now a goalie who's had his confidence severely damaged, and has 4 years left on a deal that pays him $5m.

So, you give him another year to try and rebound... he doesn't. At this point, he's now severely damaged goods, and nobody wants a part of him at anywhere near the $5m. So, you buy him out in the summer of 2018, as you realize, with Matthews/Marner going into the final year of their ELCs, he's holding you back.

That buyout costs you $1.6m for each of the following 6 years -- thereby preventing you from spending the same amount as anyone else.

So you worry about him getting worse immediately upon wearing the Leaf uniform. Worse than he's done thus far. Reason being because of the Leafs' past history. Even though he's already played 150 games and is more proven than any of Raycroft/Toskala/Bernier when we traded for them.

Hmm.. what about the possibility that he at least maintains his level of play? Which wouldn't make him a world beater, but would still make him a competent goalie and still tradeable if need be.