Confirmed Trade: [TOR/CBJ] Riley Nash for conditional 2022 7th round pick

[supsens]

It is not shitty lawyer talk. It is literally just not against the rules and every team can and does do it as they please. I mean Kucherov is sitting out the entire season and going to be healthy for game one of the playoffs. That is not cheating, that is taking advantage of the CBA.

Kuch has spent his entire career on a team and has a long term contract he was not brought in to avoid the cap I am sure you understand the difference beetween a hurt employee and seeking a way to avoid a cap hit so you have a unfair advantage.
This loophole will be closed before next years playoffs.

 

[SwedishFire]

What do you think?

Yes?

 

[Contenderorpretender]

I don’t know why people feel the need to be semantic.

LTIR has never been that difficult to understand. However you want to word it, they found a way to add a depth player to the playoffs without it effecting their cap because he won’t be playing in the regular season. They didn’t just magically add cap. There isn’t some secret formula only the Leafs have access to. They still have the same cap as literally everyone else and have no more space than before the trade.

It’s the same dumb crap everywhere but writers keep parroting bad wording and ignorant fans keep acting like LTIR is some realm of mysticism.

This is all putting aside how effective a depth player who hasn’t played a game and is coming off injury will be in the playoffs.

The leafs placed Nash & Andersen on LTIR, allowing them to exceed cap by $7.5M, leaving them $5.8M more annual cap hit that can be added. This reduces by $5M w/ Andersen back.

We all know the cap stays the same. But the leafs did acquire a player and get additional room to spend .

 

[MapleLeafs94]

Come on now thats just shifty lawyer talk, it is 100% cap circumvention and yes the other teams trying to win a cup are being cheated. If they sign him to an extension its hockey if the use him for only these playoffs to dodge his cap its cheating and the actual definition of cap circumvention

Oh God, if the Leafs go far we already got the excuses ready to go. Sorry your teams owner is a cheap bum and GM is a moron not capable of pulling this stuff off lmao.

I assume you'll be the first one letting Tampa fans know their cup win means nothing if they repeat, considering they're doing the same thing with Kucherov on LTIR, right?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Kuch has spent his entire career on a team and has a long term contract he was not brought in to avoid the cap I am sure you understand the difference beetween a hurt employee and seeking a way to avoid a cap hit so you have a unfair advantage.
This loophole will be closed before next years playoffs.

I mean Tampa is literally not under the cap this season if Kucherov plays one game this season lol but yes freak out because the Leafs traded for Riley Nash for the playoffs. Very rational reaction.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I'm just taking a wild shot in the dark and saying that Andersen isn't really injured, he's just cooperating by being put on LTIR until the end of the season. Several factors to consider:

A) Leafs are suspiciously quiet about his status. Everyone from Auston to the zamboni driver were openly talking about Matthews' wrist, but Andersen's ... whatever? Not a peep, not even speculation.

B) As Sportsnet confirmed Dubas now has ~$5M in cap space to work with until the end of the regular season.

C) Campbell is now the starter, so ...

D) While, I'm not 100% clear on the cap implication for the playoffs, if Freddie can come off LTIR once they start, but if he does he backs up Jack - No one would expect a goalie to come back after a 2-month layoff right into a playoff start. Saves face for Freddie heading into free agency as he didn't "lose" his starting job, he was injured.

I'm no capologist so feel free to shoot down the cap-related part of this theory, but Campbell/Hutch can clearly handle the net for the balance of the season and the Leafs are all but locked into a playoff spot. 1st would be nice but they're thinking that even dropping to 2nd/3rd won't hurt their chances for a long playoff run.

As for the what-ifs, like Campbell gets injured over the next few weeks or into the playoffs? Freddie is miraculously healed and returns to the net (once the playoffs start he'd be taking full practices but "not quite ready" and so still on IR).

And another wild shot is Foligno will be the (main) player the Leafs target.

I would assume if Jack Campbell wasn't playing as good as he has been there would be alot more news surrounding Andersen. Campbell has kept that very quiet from his strong play. no one is really worried when Andersen will be back.
I mean Matthews is Matthews the face of the franchise one of the top goal scorers and 1st in goals. you bet ur ass there was alot of news surrounding his injured wrist.
Andersen almost out the door and Campbell playing amazing. not surprising in the slightest.

 

[supsens]

I mean Tampa is literally not under the cap this season if Kucherov plays one game this season lol but yes freak out because the Leafs traded for Riley Nash for the playoffs. Very rational reaction.

Im not freaking out I am just calling a spade a spade,

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Its cap circumvention and it's cheating I will be suprised if they don't close this hole
But hey if you need to cheat go for it
it only goes against sportsmanship and taints everything if you win._no big deal to a guy like Dubas

So players on LTIR can't be traded? Please explain how this is cheating.

 

[hmc1987]

There has been speculation that Andersen is done for the season with his injury. If that was the case, and with this move, if they put Fred on LTIR, they'd have over 7M in cap space they could use at the TDL. And then Freddy and nash would come back for the playoffs where there is no cap.

Still need ti get Bernier or smnth also in case Campbell play dips..

 

[supsens]

So players on LTIR can't be traded? Please explain how this is cheating.

Did already

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Did already

Well try again because I read your posts and I'm confused how you actually think this way.
There's no rule saying certain players cant be traded.
Should Leafs get back David Clarkson for Horton? I mean they traded Clarkson for Horton who was LTIR and never played a game for them. helped their cap situation.
Or should all LTIR players be off limits in trades? I don't understand how you convinced yourself this is cheating.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Its cap circumvention and it's cheating I will be suprised if they don't close this hole
But hey if you need to cheat go for it
it only goes against sportsmanship and taints everything if you win._no big deal to a guy like Dubas

Do you have any evidence of this alleged cheating?

 

[Erikfromfin]

So Jarmo basicly got pick for nothing....

 

[Arthur Morgan]

So Jarmo basicly got pick for nothing....

in a way yes, its a win-win trade imo. Nash is injured for the rest of the season so wont play another game for CBJ so they got a 7th that can turn into a 6th.
Leafs get a player they can hopefully use in playoffs.

 

[Leaf Fans]

So Jarmo basicly got pick for nothing....

No, he got a pick for Nash.

 

[Mugzy97]

How so? Is Nash Marlies bound in your opinion?

No, but Laurence was part of the team that built the cap rules and structure. He is an expert at finding ways to use it as an advantages with odd little genius moves like this.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

No, but Laurence was part of the team that built the cap rules and structure. He is an expert at finding ways to use it as an advantages with odd little genius moves like this.

That was Pridham that helped build the CBA.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Its cap circumvention and it's cheating I will be suprised if they don't close this hole
But hey if you need to cheat go for it
it only goes against sportsmanship and taints everything if you win._no big deal to a guy like Dubas

You do realize that it's been done before by other teams, right?

Riley Nash is legitimately injured and won't be available until the playoffs, which allows Dubas to still add the equivalent in player salary prior to the trade deadline to try and improve the Leafs roster.

It's a perfectly legal and brilliant move if you ask me.

 

[kevsh]

I mean Matthews is Matthews the face of the franchise one of the top goal scorers and 1st in goals. you bet ur ass there was alot of news surrounding his injured wrist.
Andersen almost out the door and Campbell playing amazing. not surprising in the slightest.

That's fair but it's not that there was news, or that the media/fans were talking about it - that's a given, as you pointed out, considering it's Matthews - the difference was the Leafs themselves were openly talking about it, not just dismissing as a "UBI". Same with Simmonds, though his injury was obviously far more obvious.

With Andersen it's 100% full lid. Not a peep, not a hint, and I don't believe even a comment about when it happened. If his injury is B.S., or just not nearly bad enough he needs to be out weeks, then keeping quiet - i.e. not lying to everyone - is exactly what they would do.

In any case, I'm going to be very curious when/if he actually comes back and starts a game. That could be very telling.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Can anyone who’s watched Nash the past couple years explain for me why he hasn’t been able to put up similar points as his 40pt season? Has he lost his offense, does he always get slotted with weak line mates, etc?

Also if Nash is near healthy 2 weeks before the season ends, can he stay off the cap on a conditioning assignment?

Haven't watched him much, but in his 40 point season he was playing ~15 minutes per game and his most common linemates were Backes, Heinen and Pastrnak. Last three seasons he's been playing ~11 and his most common linemates are Robinson, Dubinsky and Hannikainen.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

That's fair but it's not that there was news, or that the media/fans were talking about it - that's a given, as you pointed out, considering it's Matthews - the difference was the Leafs themselves were openly talking about it, not just dismissing as a "UBI". Same with Simmonds, though his injury was obviously far more obvious.

With Andersen it's 100% full lid. Not a peep, not a hint, and I don't believe even a comment about when it happened. If his injury is B.S., or just not nearly bad enough he needs to be out weeks, then keeping quiet - i.e. not lying to everyone - is exactly what they would do.

In any case, I'm going to be very curious when/if he actually comes back and starts a game. That could be very telling.

Didn't they release an article of Andersen playing through a groin injury? I would assume it only got worse. Andersen wants to play I doubt he's willingly sitting so the Leafs can benefit from it. he has his own career to worry about as a UFA. Im sure he would like to get one of those Multi year deals like others have been getting on the open market. if he's healthy enough to go Im sure he wants to try and get some redemption.
I've never had a groin injury I can't relate to how it feels or how long it usually takes. I assume it would depend on a player to player basis.

 

[axlrose87]

Did already

It’s is not cheating as you have tried explaining. It is simply good management.
Your responses are kind of sad and petty.

 

[supsens]

It’s is not cheating as you have tried explaining. It is simply good management.
Your responses are kind of sad and petty.

What’s petty is insulting people because you brain needs to shut down and attack in order to “defend” your position.
It was done for 1 reason...to get around the cap.
That is cheating they will make a new rule on when or how guys can and can’t play for teams in the playoffs in the near future

 

[Budz]

I think Jenner or Foligno are close behind.

 

[Amadeus]

I think Jenner or Foligno are close behind.

Jenner is out for the year FYI