Top 20 non-NHL players all-time

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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For example, why do you think that Lutchenko was better than Tsygankov and so forth?

Other than - according to Chidlovski's site - Lutchenko was a 7-time Soviet League All-Star, of course! (wow, I have totally missed that one). His superiority (to others not named Vasiliev) did not seem so obvious in international games, though.
 

jkrx

Registered User
Feb 4, 2010
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Einar "Knatten" Lundell should be mentioned. Might make a bio when I get home if I can find the books I need for it.

Roland Stoltz, "lill-strimma" Svedberg, "Garvis"...

Its hard to compare some of these players though.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
Einar "Knatten" Lundell should be mentioned. Might make a bio when I get home if I can find the books I need for it.

Roland Stoltz, "lill-strimma" Svedberg, "Garvis"...

Its hard to compare some of these players though.

"Lill-Strimma" Svedberg I had (HM). Boy, Swedes surely love their nicknames, don't they!

Nice highlights from the USSR vs. SWE (Lill-Strimma, Honken, Lundström, L-E Sjöberg...) games in the 1970 WC; Sweden won the first game 4-2 and USSR won the other game 3-1:



Beautiful set-up by Svedberg to Carlsson's goal at about 2:20. Some great attacks/goals by the Soviets (especially Petrov's line), but their weaknesses in their own zone are also evident at times
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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Any opinions on Vyacheslav Starshinov? I think I may have put him too high. Based on the little footage I've seen and bios, he looks to me a sort of slower and less-versatile - but maybe slightly stronger? - version of Boris Mikhailov. There's no doubt he was a helluva goal-scorer and leader, but how was his playmaking and defensive play? Or does it even matter, when you score over 400 goals in the Soviet league (the only one to do that outside Mikhailov).

Should Jiri Holecek be punished for that he didn't play well in the only "best-on-best" tournament he participated in (1976 Canada Cup)? It is a fact that he wasn't usually very good against North American teams. Then again, those 4 Best goalie awards and 4 All-Star selections over Vladislav Tretiak between 1972 and 1978 is a pretty impressive achievement (Tretiak got only one of each during that time period).

Did I overrate/underrate old-timers like Bobrov, Tumba and Zabrodsky? Is it fair to try to put the achievements of these big legends (in their own countries at least) into context; i.e. "competition was weak", "they were selfish players" (some Bobrov and Tumba bios have that). Or is it just (unnecessary) revisionism?

Does everyone think Jiri Holik belongs in the top 20? His longevity is impressive alright, but there are no individual awards, no all-star selections to speak of, and his GPG/PPG numbers are not that impressive compared to many other Czech stars. I might be underrating his noted 2-way play, though, but how much superior was it?
One of the better skaters on the team CSSR, though, that's for sure.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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to answer your question, VMBM, I would not put Zabrodsky, Bobrov or Malecek anywhere near this list. They excelled internationally but their north american competition was poor. it was guys who had no shot at the NHL, and these players were better than Zabrodsky, Bobrov and Malecek as often as they weren't.

If we're looking strictly at significance to international hockey, you have have underrated them. But if we're going from the standpoint of, "how good were they on a worldwide basis in relation to the very best?" I would have plenty of players ahead of them.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
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to answer your question, VMBM, I would not put Zabrodsky, Bobrov or Malecek anywhere near this list. They excelled internationally but their north american competition was poor. it was guys who had no shot at the NHL, and these players were better than Zabrodsky, Bobrov and Malecek as often as they weren't.

If we're looking strictly at significance to international hockey, you have have underrated them. But if we're going from the standpoint of, "how good were they on a worldwide basis in relation to the very best?" I would have plenty of players ahead of them.

So for ATD purposes, they are too high and for HOHHOF purposes, too low? :p:
 
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TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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Does everyone think Jiri Holik belongs in the top 20? His longevity is impressive alright, but there are no individual awards, no all-star selections to speak of, and his GPG/PPG numbers are not that impressive compared to many other Czech stars. I might be underrating his noted 2-way play, though, but how much superior was it?
One of the better skaters on the team CSSR, though, that's for sure.

To answer this question, he's the "next best" Czech forward of the era. Not sure how that ranks him vs. players from other countries or eras, but 18th seems about right.

Also, he apparently spent much of his career as the left wing in a left wing lock system, which hurt his numbers.

This is his chidlovski profile:

One of the best Czechoslovakian players ever. Holds a national record in games played to team Czechoslovakia (319). Was an elegant skater, excellent 2-way player, exceptionally reliable team player.

Chidlovski doesn't mention any other Czech's 2-way player, so Holik must have been very good to get the "excellent" mention.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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So for ATD purposes, they are too high and for HOHHOF purposes, too low? :p:

no, I don't even necessarily mean for the HOHHOF. I just mean depending on what the focus of this particular list is. if it completely ignores the NHL and sees international play in a vaccuum, then the possibility of viewing international play relatively across eras become worthy. then you can legitimately say "Zabrodsky was more dominant internationally than Maltsev, so he goes ahead", as opposed to "Zabrodsky may have been more dominant internationally than Maltsev, but it was against scrubs and Maltsev performed against some NHL stars, so he goes way behind".
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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To answer this question, he's the "next best" Czech forward of the era. Not sure how that ranks him vs. players from other countries or eras, but 18th seems about right.

Also, he apparently spent much of his career as the left wing in a left wing lock system, which hurt his numbers.

This is his chidlovski profile:



Chidlovski doesn't mention any other Czech's 2-way player, so Holik must have been very good to get the "excellent" mention.

As of now, these are the Czechoslovak forwards from his era - or rather whose careers overlapped his - I would put ahead of Holik:

Peter Stastny
Vaclav Nedomansky
Vladimir Martinec
Ivan Hlinka
Milan Novy

I have a few classic games from the 1970s with Jiri Holik playing, so I might try to 'study' his 2-way play and all a little more thoroughly at some point. I have noticed that he was used as a penalty killer quite a lot, but then again, so was Martinec. Martinec, though, was probably used more as a 'threat'; i.e. due to his ability to steal pucks (I guess that could be called a 'defensive ability'?) and score (on breakaways).
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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If the European greats that played some seasons in the NHL (but whose biggest achievements were still in international games) were added, my list would look like this:

1. Fetisov
2. Kharlamov
3. Firsov
4. Makarov
5. Tretiak
6. Mikhailov
7. Holecek
8. Maltsev
9. Nedomansky
10. Petrov
11. Martinec
12. Starshinov
13. Vasiliev
14. Bobrov
15. Suchy
16. Pospisil
17. Krutov
18. Yakushev
19. Tumba
20. Larionov

Fetisov was such a rock for the USSR throughout the Eighties that IMO he deserves to be #1. I don't feel very strongly about it, though.

Of all the Soviet forwards, Makarov has made the biggest impression on me, having seen numerous classic games from the 1970s/1980s. It is still hard to rank him above Kharlamov or even Firsov; he just doesn't seem to have their legendary status. Injustice? I do feel very strongly that he was a cut above Mikhailov and Maltsev, though.
Despite his huge fall from grace in the late 80s, Krutov was a monster internationally. 1987 Canada Cup is just one part of the story. Larionov I maybe wouldn't have there, if I looked only at his international career.

I so much wanted to have Ivan Hlinka in the top 20, but in the end, just could not find room for him; still, I think he is a seriously underrated player, who would have been among those most likely to have succeeded in the NHL (size, strength, skill).

I will follow this up by taking a closer look at a European legend - and a borderline HOFer, shall we say - and his numbers; trying to maybe find his place in the 1970s hockey world.
 
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Reds4Life

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Dec 24, 2007
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If the European greats that played some seasons in the NHL (but whose biggest achievements were still in international games) were added, my list would look like this:

1. Fetisov
2. Kharlamov
3. Firsov
4. Makarov
5. Tretiak
6. Mikhailov
7. Holecek
8. Maltsev
9. Nedomansky
10. Petrov
11. Martinec
12. Starshinov
13. Vasiliev
14. Bobrov
15. Suchy
16. Pospisil
17. Krutov
18. Yakushev
19. Tumba
20. Larionov

Fetisov was such a rock for the USSR throughout the Eighties that IMO he deserves to be #1. I don't feel very strongly about it, though.

Of all the Soviet forwards, Makarov has made the biggest impression on me, when seeing numerous classic games from the 1970s/1980s. It is still hard to rank him above Kharlamov or even Firsov; he just doesn't seem to have their legendary status. Injustice? I do feel very strongly that he was a cut above Mikhailov and Maltsev, though.
Despite his huge fall from grace in the late 80s, Krutov was a monster internationally. 1987 Canada Cup is just one part of the story. Larionov I maybe wouldn't have there, if I looked only at his international career.

I so much wanted to have Ivan Hlinka in the top 20, but in the end, just could not find room for him; still, I think he is seriously underrated player, who would have been among those most likely to have succeeded in the NHL (size, strength, skill).

I will follow this up by taking a closer look at a European legend - and a bordeline HOFer, shall we say - and his numbers; trying to maybe find his place in the 1970s hockey world.

I'd have the same players (19/20), but different order.

1. Fetisov - best Russian defenseman, no weakness in his game, very comparable to Denis Potvin (read equal to)
2. Makarov - IMHO better than Kharlamov, but does not enjoy the same glorification
3. Kharlamov - considered the best Russian forward by most people, but slightly overrated due to his playing style
4. Mikhailov - All around player, provides toughness and exceptional goal scoring ability
5. Tretiak - best Russian goalie by far
6. Holecek - almost as good as Tretiak, often outplayed him head to head
7. Vasiliev - second best Russian defenseman, tough as nails, exceptional leader, fearless
8. Larionov - smartest Russian player ever, all around player
9. Firsov - destroyed his (weak) competition
10. Maltsev - very underrated player
11. Nedomansky - big, fast, great goal scorer
12. Petrov - another underrated center
13. Martinec - probably the smartest Czechoslovak player ever, exceptioal playmaker
14. Starshinov - great leader, one of the great Russian centers
15. Suchy - best offensive defenseman in Europe, good defensively, great shot blocker, but his peak was too short
16. Pospisil - reliable player, no real weakness in his game, down to earth player, has no ego
17. Yakushev - big, great around the net, one of the best soviets against the Canadians
18. Hlinka - one of the best Czech centers, exceptional leader, all around player
19. Krutov - the worst member of the KLM unit, but still pretty good player
20 Tumba - big player, but poor passer, kinda overrated IMHO


HMs:

Jiri Holik - hard working player, great skater, great defensively
Bobrov - played against very poor competition, nostalgia aside, he is not better than for example Zábrodský.
Zábrodský - see Bobrov
 
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VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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I'd have the same players (19/20), but different order.

1. Fetisov - best Russian defenseman, no weakness in his game, very comparable to Denis Potvin (read equal to)
2. Makarov - IMHO better than Kharlamov, but does not enjoy the same glorification
3. Kharlamov - considered the best Russian forward by most people, but slightly overrated due to his playing style
4. Mikhailov - All around player, provides toughness and exceptional goal scoring ability
5. Tretiak - best Russian goalie by far
6. Holecek - almost as good as Tretiak, often outplayed him head to head
7. Vasiliev - second best Russian defenseman, tough as nails, exceptional leader, fearless
8. Larionov - smartest Russian player ever, all around player
9. Firsov - destroyed his (weak) competition
10. Maltsev - very underrated player
11. Nedomansky - big, fast, great goal scorer
12. Petrov - another underrated center
13. Martinec - probably the smartest Czechoslovak player ever, exceptioal playmaker
14. Starshinov - great leader, one of the great Russian centers
15. Suchy - best offensive defenseman in Europe, good defensively, great shot blocker, but his peak was too short
16. Pospisil - reliable player, no real weakness in his game, down to earth player, has no ego
17. Yakushev - big, great around the net, one of the best soviets against the Canadians
18. Hlinka - one of the best Czech centers, exceptional leader, all around player
19. Krutov - the worst member of the KLM unit, but still pretty good player
20 Tumba - big player, but poor passer, kinda overrated IMHO

HMs:

Jiri Holik - hard working player, great skater, great defensively
Bobrov - played against very poor competition, nostalgia aside, he is not better than for example Zábrodský.
Zábrodský - see Bobrov

Nice. The one thing I would protest is that IMO Krutov WAS superior to Larionov 1981-1989, even when we take Larionov's edge in 2-way play into consideration. Of course, when longevity comes into the discussion, Larionov wipes the floor with Krutov. But in my opinion, Krutov gets punished too much for his later failures; he was one of the best wingers in the world in the 1980s.

I might be overrating Firsov, but I would hang on to the fact that he was still arguably USSR's best forward 1969-1971 in international tournaments, including a 3-time All-Star LW over Kharlamov in the '69, '70 & '71 WCs. He was no 'relic' from the Sixties, and I still haven't found any great reasons why he couldn't have dominated against 'the best' too, if he had had the chance (not maybe in 1972 anymore, but in his peak).
 
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Reds4Life

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Dec 24, 2007
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I don't think Krutov was more important than Larionov, I do think that Makarov and Fetisov were 1 and 2 (in any order), then Larionov and then Kasatonov and Krutov (in any order). By attacking Makarov, Czechoslovaks were able to eventually stop KLM line and win the Championship.

Firsov is very good (no.9 on my list), but I just can't put him over any player in the top8. In fact, players at spots 9-13 are very close and case can be made for Martinec over Firsov.
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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I've been wondering for a while if Fetisov is overrated due to the position he played. He was clearly the best Soviet defenceman, but since Soviets/Russians have been allowed in the NHL they really have not been great at producing defencemen. Fetisov's poor NHL play relative to Makarov and Larionov also makes me skeptical. Was Fetisov really better than Makarov, or was he just better than the next best defencemen than Makarov was compared to the next best forwards? I'm thinking that the Soviet forwards were quite a bit better than the Soviet defencemen. I would also guess that if the Russians remained in one league since the late 80s we would think of Zubov/Markov/Gonchar more highly than we generally do today just due to how good they were compared to the other Russian defencemen over the last several years.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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Firstly, I think it's fairly impossible to rank the greats from the Eastern bloc alongside NHL players. However, here's another little take on the subject.

Enter Vladimir Martinec. Okay, he is my favourite player, so I know more about him than about many others, but also I think he is a good example of a borderline HOFer. He will never get into the Real Thing (until hell freezes over/pigs fly etc.), and while not exactly a lock for our HOF either, he is still a strong candidate.

Most of the numbers I'm presenting here are ESTIMATES; they're not just guesses but not 100 % hardcore facts either. The main sources have been these sites:

http://hokej.snt.cz/index.html
http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1954/index.htm (I'm getting bored with him! :naughty:)
And another hockey forum that shall remain nameless


OVERVIEW (NOT a bio)

Martinec played 289 international games for Czechoslovakia between 1969 and 1981, scoring 155 goals. He played mostly on a line with Jiri Novak (C) and Bohuslav Stastny (LW), later with Bohuslav Ebermann (LW). His glory years, in World Championships at least, were 1974-1977, when he did much of his scoring. But as late as in the 1979 and 1981 WCs, he was still the 3rd highest scorer on his team. Strong WC also in 1972, when he got 11 points in 10(?) games, including 2 assists in the 2nd game vs. USSR that basically decided the gold medal (CSSR won 3-2). In his lone 'best-on-best' tournament, 1976 Canada Cup, he scored 7 points in 7 games.

Unfortunately, the total amount of the points he scored is not - as far as I know - available. But considering he scored 52 goals 58 assists in 102 WC games/69 goals and 66 assists in 15 big tournaments (i.e. 11 WCs, 3 Olympics, 1 CC), it is easy to assume that he had about 310-320 points. It should be noted that second assists were credited inconsistently in the 1970s (and certainly beyond). In some WCs, for example, they weren't credited at all. That hurts his, and many other players', numbers a bit.

Of the 289 games he played, about half were against either USSR, Sweden or Canada. The rest were against the likes of Finland, West Germany, Poland, USA... naturally, I want to concentrate on the aforementioned countries, as they were something that could be called 'NHL level' opponents. Some of you might protest that Sweden wasn't that, but bare with me.


MARTINEC VS. USSR

The Soviets were, to use NHL analogy, the Montreal Canadiens of Europe, and Czechoslovakia was definitely a notch or two below. Despite the fact that they beat USSR regularly, the Czechs could not dominate the weak(er) teams like the Soviets could; just comparing their goal differentials in various tournaments is quite revealing.

Now, Martinec's Soviet contemporaries (Mikhailov, Maltsev, Petrov, Kharlamov) played about 60 games against CSSR, so his GP numbers have to be in that region too. From the available (but oh so scattered) data I've gathered that Martinec scored about 20 goals (at least) in the games versus the Soviets. Assists are a tougher nut to crack, but since he had about 1 G/A ratio overall, I don't see why it wouldn't apply here too. So:

GP: 60* G: 20* A: 20* PPG: .66...*

* estimate

The estimated numbers may seem underwhelming, but turning this thing around, I'm willing to bet that none of his Soviet rivals have >/= 1 PPG Average versus CSSR either, although I do believe that the likes of Mikhailov, Petrov and Kharlamov were somewhat more efficient overall (better PPGA) when they and Martinec faced each other.


MARTINEC VS. CANADA

Martinec played 5 games versus an All-Star Team Canada; 1 in 1972 and 4 in 1976 (one of them being pre-tournament game prior to 1976 CC). He also played 8 games against the Canadian teams (consisting of NHL players) in the World Championships 1977-81. Data is fairly available (minus 3 g.), and from that I've gathered that Martinec was basically a 1PPG player in these games. Interestingly, though, he didn't score that many goals against them, but contributed more as a playmaker*.
He also played at least a few games against some lesser Canadian teams in some lesser tournaments in the late Seventies plus a game against WHA's Team Canada in 1974.
* overall, I've come to appreciate Martinec's playmaking a little more than before, and at the same time, I think I've been overrating his goal-scoring skills a bit

'My' stats would read like this:

GP: 20* G: 5* A: 15* PPG: 1*

* estimate

Martinec also played for his club team Tesla Pardubice, when they toured the NHL in 1977-78 and won one game (that against Minnesota North Stars) out of four. Martinec scored 2 goals in the Series. Despite Pardubice being rather overmatched against Philadelphia Flyers, he was at least the star of his team in the game (http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?10000003 Wow, I'm really impressed that such fairly insignificant exhibition game has been so well documented!!!)


MARTINEC VS. SWEDEN

As I previously said, you might argue that the Swedish teams Martinec faced weren't 'NHL level' but I beg to differ. Czechoslovakia couldn't really dominate Sweden during the 1st half of the 1970s much at all, even though the Soviets mostly did. Many of the Swedish teams had future/then-current NHL players like B. Salming, A. Hedberg, U. Nilsson... Roland Eriksson, B-A Gustafsson, M. Näslund, Pelle Lindbergh... I'd say the 1970-74, 1977 and 1981 Swedish WC teams were on par with an average NHL team (of the '70s), and even at their worst (probably 1975 WC), they were at least on a level of bottom NHL clubs.
Anyway, what I've gathered is that post-1973, Martinec scored A LOT of points against Sweden, and pre-1974 very little... goals, at least. So that would translate to something like:

GP: 60* POINTS: 65**

* estimate
** a guess!



CONCLUSION:

There really isn't a conclusion! But I hope this gives at least some more insight on a genuine European hockey legend and where he stands in the 1970s hockey, and maybe on the players who were a notch above (Kharlamov, Makarov), about on the same level (Petrov, Starshinov) and somewhat below (Hlinka, Novy) too. The NHL was a very different kind of scenario, and some players would have been better suited for it than others. And you can't just transfer Martinec's or anyone else's international scoring to NHL numbers.

Still, I don't see reasons why Martinec couldn't have made it in the NHL. He was a product of Czechoslovak 'system' (whatever that was) and a team player, but certainly among the most creative and individual ones of his era too. Don't talk about Guy Lafleur, alright, but, say, a Bill Barber type of career, why not? I would have loved to seen him play with Gilbert Perreault... and let's put Valeri Kharlamov on the LW, while we're at it. I'm droolin' just thinking about it - no disrespect to Rene Robert and Rick Martin of course. THE END.
 
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EagleBelfour

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Jun 7, 2005
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A gain a little more knowledge on European players in the last few weeks, so I feel comfortable enough to write down my own list:


1. Viacheslav Fetisov
2. Valeri Kharlamov
3. Vladislav Tretiak
4. Sergei Makarov
5A. Anatoli Firsov
5B. Boris Mikhailov
7. Aleksandr Maltsev
8. Jiri Holecek
9. Vladimir Petrov
10. Vaclav Nedomansky
11. Igor Larionov
12. Valeri Vasiliev
13A. Jan Suchy
13B. Frantisek Pospisil
15. Alexei Kasatonov
16. Vladimir Martinec
17. Vyacheslav Starshinov
18. Vladimir Krutov
19. Alexander Ragulin
20. Vitaly Davydov
21. Alexander Yakushev
22. Sven Johansson
23. Nikolai Sologubov
24. Vsevolod Bobrov
25. Lennart Svedberg

EDIT: Nice read on Martinec VMBM
 
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Hardyvan123

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Jul 4, 2010
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Einar "Knatten" Lundell should be mentioned. Might make a bio when I get home if I can find the books I need for it.

Roland Stoltz, "lill-strimma" Svedberg, "Garvis"...

Its hard to compare some of these players though.

Extremely hard to compare, even more so than NHL players from different eras.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
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I only now noticed that stats for most old World Championship/Olympic games are available on Czech Wikipedia. I don't know what source they have been taken from, but they look authentic and reliable - a couple of possible errors here and there aside.
I haven't had the time to check them very thoroughly, but the goal-scorers for each game seem to be there, and at least from the mid-Sixties on, the assists too (except for the 1973 WC) and usually the rosters for the game.

For example, here is the page for the 1977 World Championships (where 'everybody beat everybody'):

http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistrovstv%C3%AD_sv%C4%9Bta_v_ledn%C3%ADm_hokeji_1977

The only bummer is that I don't know a way to move smoothly from one tournament (page) to another; I always have to go back to Eng-Wiki, scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the tournament (year) I want to look at... and then click on the "Česky" (languages), and once I'm finished reading, do the same thing all over again.

Anyway, some interesting findings already: I'll take back any 'bad' things I said about Jiri Holik; he was the most effective 60s/70s CSSR forward against the Soviets in World Championships (I counted 12 pts in 23 g.); a reliable big-game player, it seems. Mikhailov continues to impress (clearly an effective player in important games), Maltsev not so much.
 
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Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
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The only bummer is that I don't know a way to move smoothly from one tournament (page) to another; I always have to go back to Eng-Wiki, scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the tournament (year) I want to look at... and then click on the "Česky" (languages), and once I'm finished reading, do the same thing all over again.

At the bottom of the pace you can read Mistrovství světa v ledním hokeji ("World Ice Hockey Championships"). Click ukaž ("open") on the right side and an overview of years/championships (from 1920 on) opens.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
At the bottom of the pace you can read Mistrovství světa v ledním hokeji ("World Ice Hockey Championships"). Click ukaž ("open") on the right side and an overview of years/championships (from 1920 on) opens.

Thanks. I'm an idiot. :D

SIHR shows every WC and Olympics stats of the 60's and +. For 30$ a year it's a worthy subscription.

I'm such a cheapskate (heh heh) and especially since I found out that they have some errors (for example, Martinec's 1976 CC and apparently 1978-79 Czechoslovak league numbers are incorrect there) it has curbed my enthusiasm a bit. But I've heard so many good things about it, so maybe I indeed should... subsribe
 
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TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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A gain a little more knowledge on European players in the last few weeks, so I feel comfortable enough to write down my own list:


1. Viacheslav Fetisov
2. Valeri Kharlamov
3. Vladislav Tretiak
4. Sergei Makarov
5A. Anatoli Firsov
5B. Boris Mikhailov
7. Aleksandr Maltsev
8. Jiri Holecek
9. Vladimir Petrov
10. Vaclav Nedomansky
11. Igor Larionov
12. Valeri Vasiliev
13A. Jan Suchy
13B. Frantisek Pospisil
15. Alexei Kasatonov
16. Vladimir Martinec
17. Vyacheslav Starshinov
18. Vladimir Krutov
19. Alexander Ragulin
20. Vitaly Davydov
21. Alexander Yakushev
22. Sven Johansson
23. Nikolai Sologubov
24. Vsevolod Bobrov
25. Lennart Svedberg

EDIT: Nice read on Martinec VMBM

Very good list for the most part, but why Nedomansky so far ahead of Martinec? It seems most Czech fans consider Martinec better, though I think it's awfully close.
 

steve141

Registered User
Aug 13, 2009
1,144
240
As far as the Swedes go the top five should probably be:

1. Tumba
2. Svedberg
3. Stoltz
3. Holmqvist
4. Lindmark

Ulf Sterner has four games with the Rangers in the 60s, but would be third on my list otherwise.

Another honary mention is the "Youth Line" of Nils Nilsson, Ronald Pettersson and Lars-Eric Lundvall, who were an instrumental part of Sweden's first world championship wins in 1957 and 1962.

I was amazed when compiling just this short list how few of the Swedish greats who don't have any NHL/WHA experience.
 

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