Top 10 defense prospects not in nhl

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,879
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Sweden
still just 1 other person mentioning Niku?!?

1st in AHL rookie dmen scoring
2nd in all AHL dmen scoring
5th in all AHL rookie scoring

I guess he has to be 1st in all those in order to possibly crack peoples top 10 lists???hahah

He has been unbelievable this season and I suggest people try catching some Moose games on TV if possible!!!
Hronek is arguably more impressive.

+21 on a worse team than Niku, no other D in GR is more than +3. Lower PPG largely due to slower start (now 15pts last 15 gp) when he had a smaller role. A year younger (tracking ahead of what Niku did last year in Liiga).

But I’d have both in my top 10.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,436
11,110
All I know, is Calgary has Fox, Andersson and Valimaki.
All three guys are in the top 20. I'd say Andersson's the best of all of them, just turned 21.... AHL All-star, 1D on Stockton, all situation... Looked right in place in the NHL. Just love the kid, underrated as hell too. Guy's got a chance at being a solid, solid top 4D for Calgary for a long long time.
 

Peeps

Registered User
May 24, 2017
362
274
1-Dahlin (U16 and U17 SHL player)
2-Heiskanen (U16 and U17 Liiga player)
3-Hughes
4-Makar
5-Juolevi
6-Fabbro
7-Foote
8-Krys
9-Andersson
10-Jokiharju/Timmins
 

kings11

Registered User
Sep 29, 2011
6,215
4,023
Las Vegas
1. Dahlin

2. Heiskanen
3. Makar
4. Clague
5. Makar
6. Juolevi
7. Hughes
8. Fabbro
9. Timmins
10. Liljegren
10. Timmins
 

Frolov 6'3

Unregistered User
Jun 7, 2003
13,204
3,606
The Netherlands
Since when is Niku’s performance similar to any other young AHL D-man?

You were clear, just wrong. You are massively overestimating the importance of when a player is born within their draft year.
Yeah sure, you were wrong thinking a player could only be two years older than Niku with the 2017 draftees. I had to explain it to you.

And I am overrating age, you say ? If Vilardi was born one month later, he would be a top 3 pick in 2018. Just an example. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Like one year of development is a non factor.





Edit: now i see the problem, you are a Jets fan.
 
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Atoyot

Registered User
Jul 19, 2013
13,859
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Hronek is arguably more impressive.

+21 on a worse team than Niku, no other D in GR is more than +3. Lower PPG largely due to slower start (now 15pts last 15 gp) when he had a smaller role. A year younger (tracking ahead of what Niku did last year in Liiga).

But I’d have both in my top 10.

You can't really compare those leagues straight up, defensive scoring is much more rare in Liiga, especially for a younger player as it is not a development league like the AHL. Not taking anything away from Hronek, he's doing very well.
 

Goodman68

Registered User
Jul 11, 2016
1,617
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[QUOTE = "nopurposeflour, post: 141414611, member: 285065"] Makar je tak dobrý, že dělá seznam dvakrát! [/ QUOTE]
And Timmins too.
 

4thline

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
14,378
9,688
Waterloo
Niku is in the same boat as Andersson, a boat that Dermott was in, and Dunn would have if he had not made the Blues out of camp. As a U22 dman in the AHL expectations are much higher, it's hard for a guy to get much fan recognition without either high draft pedigree or a respected "sponsor"/ team leak in the court of public opinion. We'll see how he tracks compared to those other 96's
 

DeepFrickinValue

Formally Ruffus
May 14, 2015
5,314
4,229
If niko was a first rounder he would make lists, as he was 7th rounder he was unknown till this year and his intro to North America.
 
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Hockeyisl1fe

Registered User
Dec 8, 2016
2,368
793
If niko was a first rounder he would make lists, as he was 7th rounder he was unknown till this year and his intro to North America.
And there is a reason too why he wasn't a first rounder too. Nothing against him and I think he has developped nicely, but purely statistically looking first rounders on average are about 60-70% more likely to become NHL regulars compared to 7th rounders (this doesn't take into account whether they will be low or high level of players, in that case the separation would be much more bigger). I wouldn't criticize people here favoring prospects in that category over Niku at this point.
 

lomiller1

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
6,409
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Yeah sure, you were wrong thinking a player could only be two years older than Niku with the 2017 draftees. I had to explain it to you.
Again. Niku is the age where majority of players reach the AHL. Most CHL drafted players are not even eligible to play in the AHL earlier. His birth date makes him a few months older than the average age a CHL drafted player would be eligible to play in the AHL, but that’s. In most cases you are either comparing him to players the same age, in which case he’s on of if not these best or comparing him to players not yet eligible to play in the AHL so you have to account for the much higher level of play.
And I am overrating age, you say ? If Vilardi was born one month later, he would be a top 3 pick in 2018. Just an example. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Yawn. This is pretty basic stuff. The problem is that you can’t account for it by using birth year instead, of draft year not only doesn’t work it makes things worse. No matter what point in the year you chose for a dividing line there are players who fall near that line on either side and are a little younger/older than the players you are grouping them with, and by switching from draft year to birth year you are effectively taking a player from being one of the oldest to one of the youngest and you then need to adjust for his relative youth.
If you would pay attention perhaps you would have learned a way you can actually address questions like early/late birth dates.
Like one year of development is a non factor.
Niku is within a few months of the typical age for an AHL rookie, so your "one year of development" doesn’t exist. For players like Hronek or Liljegren who end up in the AHL a little sooner it’s something worth noting, otherwise it’s a non-issue.
What would be an issue would be to compare players born Sept – Dec to players nearly a full year older that have been playing the league a year already. (Again, remember Jan – Mar are the most common birth months for NHL players and outnumber those born in the last 3 months of the year by ~45%.)
 

Frolov 6'3

Unregistered User
Jun 7, 2003
13,204
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Again. Niku is the age where majority of players reach the AHL. Most CHL drafted players are not even eligible to play in the AHL earlier. His birth date makes him a few months older than the average age a CHL drafted player would be eligible to play in the AHL, but that’s. In most cases you are either comparing him to players the same age, in which case he’s on of if not these best or comparing him to players not yet eligible to play in the AHL so you have to account for the much higher level of play.
Ugh...

I am very well aware of that. No idea why you need to point that out constantly. I have never said he is not doing well or that I use AHL competition against him. Actually I already said I rate AHL success over Junior success in the right cirumstances.


However, its likely that 10 much younger/just as promising/1s round picks, whatever will become better than him. Very simple.

This is not a list of 50 names.

Someone asked to list the best 10 defensive prospects, just 10. Its a reach to think that Niku should be named.
 

lomiller1

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
6,409
2,967
Niku is in the same boat as Andersson, a boat that Dermott was in, and Dunn would have if he had not made the Blues out of camp. As a U22 dman in the AHL expectations are much higher, it's hard for a guy to get much fan recognition without either high draft pedigree or a respected "sponsor"/ team leak in the court of public opinion. We'll see how he tracks compared to those other 96's
He’s in the same boat as far as being suitable head to head comparisons, but consider the AHL performance relative to his peer group (all in their 20 year old season. )
Anderson – 27 points in 40 games 0.68PPG
Capobianco – 24 points in 37 games 0.65PPG
Dermot – 18 points in 28 games 0.64PPG
Guhle – 21 points in 39 games 0.54PPG
Chabot – 7 points in 13 games 0.54PPG
Myers - 12 points in 32 games 0.375PPG
Zboril – 10 points in 46 games 0.22PPG
While it’s not just about points, Niku has also been the most impactful of these players, being one of the key pieces that has taken his AHL team from being one of the worst to one of the best.
 

lomiller1

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
6,409
2,967
Ugh...

I am very well aware of that. No idea why you need to point that out constantly. I have never said he is not doing well or that I use AHL competition against him. Actually I already said I rate AHL success over Junior success in the right cirumstances.
You are considering him "older" at an age where players are typically in their rookie AHL season. It’s relatively rare for layers notably younger than him to even be in the AHL. If Niku is discounted because he’s "older" than you have to apply the same logic to nearly every AHL player. This is incompatible with your claim to "rate AHL success over junior success".
 

4thline

Registered User
Jul 18, 2014
14,378
9,688
Waterloo
@lomiller1
Has there been a study to quantify age differential that fully accounts for the confounding variable of the extra season of experience post minor midget/ U16 that the vast majority of 4th quarter birthdays have in their draft year?
 

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