Player Discussion Tomas Plekanec - Guess who's back, back again? Turtleneck's back, tell a friend! Edition

[417]

I will be very interested to see how Julien uses Pleky. Personally, I think he puts Gallagher with him again. We will see

This would be madness again, but I also wouldn't be surprised.

Plekanec should not be playing with any players expected to produce offensively.

 

[Brainiac]

Under Julien, Plekanec will definitely get 2nd line minutes, with an emphasis on defensive usage. Don't expect him to play 12 min. a game. It's gonna be more than that.

 

[417]

Under Julien, Plekanec will definitely get 2nd line minutes, with an emphasis on defensive usage. Don't expect him to play 12 min. a game. It's gonna be more than that.

Yes, I fully expect it.

Because Claude Julien embodies the Montreal Canadiens philosophy...

The only way to win, is by preventing the other team from scoring.

 

[Belial]

@417 Man, it's so weird you brought up a guy like Beagle... That once again proves my point that you don't really understand what a guy like Plekanec is actually bringing to the table.

Your constant focus on pure points is extremely superficial and it lacks game understanding.

Did you even bother to check Beagle's underlying numbers?

That guy was literally getting killed on the ice at even strength and he was not even facing top opposition on top of that! There was no logical reason to use him more! He was getting destroyed!

The only reason his GA stayed comparatively low it's because his goalie was saving his(line) ass all the time.

His CF% is 39,11, that basically means when he was on the ice his team was hemmed in its own zone the majority of the time and was just bleeding scoring chances galore!

Try again...

 

[417]

@417 Man, it's so weird you brought up a guy like Beagle... That once again proves my point that you don't really understand what a guy like Plekanec is actually bringing to the table.

Your constant focus on pure points is extremely superficial and it lacks game understanding.

That's actually not my focus because I don't expect Plekanec to put up points...

Firstly, he's not capable and secondly, I fully understand his role doesn't provide the ideal circumstances to produce points.

My issue is this, let's try this again since I thought you finally understood...

My issue is WITH HIS ICETIME...

A player who is both incapable of producing AND isn't playing a role suited to produce points, SHOULD NOT BE GETTING SO MUCH ICE TIME.

I brought up Beagle as a comparable of a player who has a similar profile, but who unlike Plekanec, has his value maximized because he plays 12 mins a game...not 16 mins a game.

Beagle, doesn't play more than Backstrom, Kuznetsov & Eller...he's a situational defensive player.

Did you even bother to check Beagle's underlying numbers?

That guy was literally getting killed on the ice at even strength and he was not even facing top opposition on top of that! There was no logical reason to use him more! He was getting destroyed!

The only reason his GA stayed comparatively low it's because his goalie was saving his(line) ass all the time.

His CF% is 39,11, that basically means when he was on the ice his team was hemmed in its own zone the majority of the time and was just bleeding scoring chances galore!

Try again...

All of what you provided above is irrelevant to the point i'm making...I never argued that Beagle deserved more icetime or was better than Plekanec.

So i'm not quite sure what the purpose of this drivel you've written here?

The way the Washington Capitals use Jay Beagle...is how the Montreal Canadiens should have been using and should be using Plekanec.

Stop bringing up irrelevant things to distract from the fact your position is weak at best.

Or better yet -

Find me another player, since you don't think Beagle is deserving, that we can compare Plekanec too and we can examine their usage.

I challenge you to find a player who produces as much (or as little) as Plekanec does and who plays as much as Plekanec does.

I'm here all day fam

 

[Belial]

That's actually not my focus because I don't expect Plekanec to put up points...

Firstly, he's not capable and secondly, I fully understand his role doesn't provide the ideal circumstances to produce points.

My issue is this, let's try this again since I thought you finally understood...

My issue is WITH HIS ICETIME...

A player who is both incapable of producing AND isn't playing a role suited to produce points, SHOULD NOT BE GETTING SO MUCH ICE TIME.

I brought up Beagle as a comparable of a player who has a similar profile, but who unlike Plekanec, has his value maximized because he plays 12 mins a game...not 16 mins a game.

Beagle, doesn't play more than Backstrom, Kuznetsov & Eller...he's a situational defensive player.


All of what you provided above is irrelevant to the point i'm making...I never argued that Beagle deserved more icetime or was better than Plekanec.

So i'm not quite sure what the purpose of this drivel you've written here?

The way the Washington Capitals use Jay Beagle...is how the Montreal Canadiens should have been using and should be using Plekanec.

Stop bringing up irrelevant things to distract from the fact your position is weak at best.

Or better yet -

Find me another player, since you don't think Beagle is deserving, that we can compare Plekanec too and we can examine their usage.

I challenge you to find a player who produces as much (or as little) as Plekanec does and who plays as much as Plekanec does.

I'm here all day fam

Same old, same old...

I already brought you stats plenty of times that offense is being generated when the blackhole Plekanec is on the ice but you can keep ignoring that fact as you usually do. Nothing new...

 

[417]

Same old, same old...

I already brought you stats plenty of times that offense is being generated when the blackhole Plekanec is on the ice but you can keep ignoring that fact as you usually do. Nothing new...

What your dumb *** GF scored while Plekanec is on the ice?

A stat that a player can accumulate just by jumping over the boards while never touching the puck but because his teammate got a breakaway, he gets credited with a GF???

Please...that's stat is as flimsy as your posting.

Sorry you can come up with any interpretation of any stat you want...

Over 16 mins a game and 26pts is not "offense being generated" now matter how much lipstick you put on this pig

 

[Belial]

What your dumb *** GF scored while Plekanec is on the ice?

A stat that a player can accumulate just by jumping over the boards while never touching the puck but because his teammate got a breakaway, he gets credited with a GF???

Please...that's stat is as flimsy as your posting.

Sorry you can come up with any interpretation of any stat you want...

Over 16 mins a game and 26pts is not "offense being generated" now matter how much lipstick you put on this pig

How many times is that actually happening though? That's just a dumb "I don't care about stats, they're skewed" response.

 

[417]

How many times is that actually happening though? That's just a dumb "I don't care about stats, they're skewed" response.

No...it's just a flimsy argument.

Like someone who measures defensive ability using +/-...you're cooking numbers.

To suggest any player who is on the ice for a GF is integral to that goal event is ridiculous.

Once again, I challenge you to find a player of similar profile to Plekanec in both role & production, who plays as much as Plekanec does.

 

[Belial]

No...it's just a flimsy argument.

Like someone who measures defensive ability using +/-...you're cooking numbers.

To suggest any player who is on the ice for a GF is integral to that goal event is ridiculous.

Once again, I challenge you to find a player of similar profile to Plekanec in both role & production, who plays as much as Plekanec does.

I don't care man! I'm showing you stats that perfectly justify his damn usage, you keep ignoring them! Whatever...

 

[Doc McKenna]

@417 Man, it's so weird you brought up a guy like Beagle... That once again proves my point that you don't really understand what a guy like Plekanec is actually bringing to the table.

Your constant focus on pure points is extremely superficial and it lacks game understanding.

Did you even bother to check Beagle's underlying numbers?

That guy was literally getting killed on the ice at even strength and he was not even facing top opposition on top of that! There was no logical reason to use him more! He was getting destroyed!

The only reason his GA stayed comparatively low it's because his goalie was saving his(line) ass all the time.

His CF% is 39,11, that basically means when he was on the ice his team was hemmed in its own zone the majority of the time and was just bleeding scoring chances galore!

Try again...

ICETIME. One guy is getting several more minutes than the other. Does this compute. BTW pleks isn't so great in his own end even. Watch the play. Like most of our forwards he hangs out on the perimeter waiting for an outlet pass from the D. Gally was propping up his numbers because we all know he is one of the only habs that digs in the corners. Pleks gets a long pass and wrists it at the chest of the opposing goalie. There is a very good reason pleks never gets injuries, he isn't involved in the plays. Many of the complaints about Max applies equally to pleks.

 

[417]

I don't care man! I'm showing you stats that perfectly justify his damn usage, you keep ignoring them! Whatever...

You haven't done that once...

GF "while on the ice" is a subjective stat that requires heavy interpretation...it's purely circumstantial.

It doesn't justify using a guy who has 30 goals in the last 3 NHL seasons, as much as the Habs do.

Come back when you got something substantial.

 

[Belial]

ICETIME. One guy is getting 6 more minutes than the other. Does this compute. BTW pleks isn't so great in his own end even. Watch the play. Like most of our forwards he hangs out on the perimeter waiting for an outlet pass from the D. Gally was propping up his numbers because we all know he is one of the only habs that digs in the corners. Pleks gets a long pass and wrists it at the chest of the opposing goalie. There is a very good reason pleks never gets injuries, he isn't involved in the plays. Many of the complaints about Max applies equally to pleks.

Icetime? What are you even talking about?

I told you Beagle was getting destroyed! Do you want to give him more ice time?

Watch the play? How about you watch the stats?

He's been doing it for his entire career! This is not just this year that he's solid in his own end.

You haven't done that once...

GF "while on the ice" is a subjective stat that requires heavy interpretation...it's purely circumstantial.

It doesn't justify using a guy who has 30 goals in the last 3 NHL seasons, as much as the Habs do.

Come back when you got something substantial.

Dude let's end this once and for all!

What are you even arguing about?

Plekanec playing too much?

Who is supposed to play those tough minutes in your opinion so that the team has a better chance to win?

 

[417]

Dude let's end this once and for all!

What are you even arguing about?

Plekanec playing too much?

Who is supposed to play those tough minutes in your opinion so that the team has a better chance to win?

Anyone...I don't freaking care. Tomas Plekanec wasn't providing the Habs with a better chance to win this past year.

What was the Habs record this year when they traded Plekanec? Here...let me help you.

They had 23 wins in 60 games at the trade deadline.

What planet were you living on where Tomas Plekanec gave the Habs a better chance to win???

 

[Belial]

Yeah, ok... You just clearly don't get it.

You think stats are useless, coaches are dumb, Plekanec sucks and you know better.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Plekanec is here to eat tough minutes for a year until the kids are ready, what's the problem? The guy is perfect for what we need, as not only will he shelter the kids, but he'll get us an asset at the deadline- all while not messing up the tank.

 

[417]

Yeah, ok... You just clearly don't get it.

You think stats are useless, coaches are dumb, Plekanec sucks and you know better.

1. I don't think stats are useless...I think people can use stats and interpret them in dumb ways, which is exactly what you're doing.

2. Coaches aren't dumb, but their usage can be questioned and in this case, it deserves questioning.

3. Plekanec doesn't suck

4. Thanks

 

[417]

Plekanec is here to eat tough minutes for a year until the kids are ready, what's the problem? The guy is perfect for what we need, as not only will he shelter the kids, but he'll get us an asset at the deadline- all while not messing up the tank.

So whose going to "eat tough minutes" the year after, when Plekanec is gone?

 

[Belial]

So whose going to "eat tough minutes" the year after, when Plekanec is gone?

Danault!

 

[417]

Danault!

So why can't he do it now?

Your iron clad advanced stats show Danault is better defensively.

BTW - we've found common ground on this because I think Philip Danault is more than well equipped and capable to play the role Plekanec has had.

 

[Doc McKenna]

So why can't he do it now?

Your iron clad advanced stats show Danault is better defensively.

BTW - we've found common ground on this because I think Philip Danault is more than well equipped and capable to play the role Plekanec has had.

Good 3rd line center than can actually help out offensively in a pinch. Dan-o has been more physical in his few years with the habs as Plekachu has been in his entire career.

 

[Belial]

So why can't he do it now?

Your iron clad advanced stats show Danault is better defensively.

BTW - we've found common ground on this because I think Philip Danault is more than well equipped and capable to play the role Plekanec has had.

Well, he's actually doing it already, what's your point?

 

[habdynasty]

Bringing back the black hole of offence is so exciting, can’t wait for the season to start.

 

[Miller Time]

would like to see him center a line with Lekhonen & Armia...

in a perfect world, i think that could be an upper-tier 3rd line.

 

[Kriss E]

So why can't he do it now?

Your iron clad advanced stats show Danault is better defensively.

BTW - we've found common ground on this because I think Philip Danault is more than well equipped and capable to play the role Plekanec has had.

Dude...you're arguing with Belial...loll

Plekanec should be used at the most as a checking line center.
Danault should get the heavy lifting, even if he should really also be a 3rd liner, and Drouin with favorable offensive minutes. We need to see what load those guys can potentially handle. If they show improvements, well good, we have some hope for future years. If they completely struggle, well dang, we need a lot of help.
We can use Plek to get a bit of heavy defensive minutes, but little by little we need to transition towards the younger guys.
If Plek is doing most of the heavy lifting this year, well he will be used around 20min because there should be a shit load of heavy lifting to do given our terrible roster.
Even at that, I rather we give more responsibilities to DLR.