Confirmed with Link: Tom Wilson Re-signs 6 years, $5.17 AAV

[RandyHolt]

I love tom willson and will give him an old DVD I have for xmas!!!!!1!1

 

[artilector]

Arti another bender? Lol....why not let KSD enjoy himself?

Friends dont let friends overdose!

 

[HTFN]

This is getting absurd. The others Caps didn't have anything to do with "neutralizing" Karlsson?

Further, there have probably been quite a number of physical players who have at one point made an impact by damaging an opposition star during playoffs. Should they all get paid like those stars then? And why stop at Karlsson for a comparison -- since there's indeed more to hockey than goals. If Wilson can damage McDavid with a hit, maybe he should get paid 10M+? Brilliant!

This is a dumb argument. If you truly think that the implication here is that anyone who can injure someone then that's on you. If you think that anyone here is actually making the argument that injuring someone is equally valuable as playing like them then you're not reading the same posts as I am, and I'd very much like to see the ones I'm missing.

Words like "hurt" and "damage" have legal, acceptable places in the sport of hockey. One element of Shea Weber's game is that if you try to establish a presence in front of his goaltender, he's going to hurt you for it. He's going to use his stick, fists, maybe an elbow to the belly or two to tell the players on your team that if you want to be there you're going to have to hurt, and it's almost a universally accepted positive. If you think the Capitals are paying Wilson extra to be a player injurer, rather than one of a rare breed of NHL players that make other grown men look and play like scared children regularly, then we're also not watching the same player.

I'm starting to wonder why your posts are showing up in my universe.

 

[kicksavedave]

This is getting absurd. The others Caps didn't have anything to do with "neutralizing" Karlsson?

Further, there have probably been quite a number of physical players who have at one point made an impact by damaging an opposition star during playoffs. Should they all get paid like those stars then? And why stop at Karlsson for a comparison -- since there's indeed more to hockey than goals. If Wilson can damage McDavid with a hit, maybe he should get paid 10M+? Brilliant!

As HFTN mentions, you used the word "damage" twice but I used the word neutralize. If TW can make McDavid afraid to dig pucks out of the corner, or make him tend to give up the puck before he makes his play because he's afraid of getting hit, then I would give him a raise, in a second. In fact thats exactly what the Wilson did all playoffs long, and THAT is why the Caps gave him a big fat raise.

Making this about injuring the opponent is twisting my words. A big, clean, hard hit that makes players think twice the next time they have the pick and TWil is on the ice, is in no way the same concept as a cheap shot that injures a player, or an unlucky hit gone wrong that results in injury. Anyone can do those two things. You mixing the two is disingenuous. It takes a special player to change the opponents will with his physical game. Most of us here get the difference.

But that difference will never show up in the score sheet. One has to watch closely and know what to look for. I suspect you do as do most of this board... but I suspect most of HFBoards mains don't.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

I mean, really? I love Wilson, but it's a massive and unwarranted logical leap to attribute Karlsson's possible disappearance to a hit. Defensemen bailing out in fear when he's coming in on the forecheck is a real, observable thing. This is just speculation, and far from the simplest explanation, which is that strong team defense limited Karlsson and a number of other players.

 

[kicksavedave]

I mean, really? I love Wilson, but it's a massive and unwarranted logical leap to attribute Karlsson's possible disappearance to a hit. Defensemen bailing out in fear when he's coming in on the forecheck is a real, observable thing. This is just speculation, and far from the simplest explanation, which is that strong team defense limited Karlsson and a number of other players.

So what is that worth? A guy who can make people do that in the SCF or the ECF, when it is supposed to be "pay the price" time?

And look at the inverse of that... numerous times we saw TWil take a big hit to make a breakout pass, that sprung a breakaway that lead to a goal. Thats the sort of thing that Cup winners do, and the Caps have historically lacked. What is that worth?

 

[Ridley Simon]

So what is that worth? A guy who can make people do that in the SCF or the ECF, when it is supposed to be "pay the price" time?

And look at the inverse of that... numerous times we saw TWil take a big hit to make a breakout pass, that sprung a breakaway that lead to a goal. Thats the sort of thing that Cup winners do, and the Caps have historically lacked. What is that worth?

Thank you...I will show myself out?

 

[kicksavedave]

Thank you...I will show myself out?

One Hundred Billion Dollars?

 

[txpd]

As usual the answer is in the middle somewhere. Of course shutting down a guy like Karlsson was a team game. Of course its possible that the Wilson factor brought something not so much seen in previous Knights playoff series.

There was speculation during the series that Karlsson seemed injured. Its also true that at a small reduction in commitment or ability or effort can have a big effect.

 

[g00n]

I can't believe this is still going, and that it's now hinging on whether or not TW hurt/injured opponents and if that translates to cash.

I also wonder what people are seeing when they watch him play. He's not the same guy he was 5 years ago but I believe some are still viewing him through that lens.

Many will reluctantly concede his forechecking has become top notch, and his hitting and PKing are elite. But what few will admit is that his hands and awareness have also developed considerably in just the past year. Gone are the days where you should be flat out shocked iF he puts together 2-3 dekes and a pass, or relieved if he doesn't have the puck explode off his stick on a bang-bang play. He anticipates the flow of the play and goes exactly where he's needed 90% of the time, and more often than not he can make a few nice plays with his stick and his feet.

What he doesn't do, yet, is pull off the flashy puck control moves at top speed like the elite scoring forwards, and he may never do that. That's what people seem to fault him for, and why they drop him down so many notches. But if he can learn to power through opponents with 1 or 2 moves and pure physical force/speed like Ovechkin did in his early years he will become a force on the rush and then LOOK OUT.

 

[Silky mitts]

I can't believe this is still going, and that it's now hinging on whether or not TW hurt/injured opponents

You think there's a debate as to whether Wilson injured opponents?

 

[Calicaps]

You think there's a debate as to whether Wilson injured opponents?

You can't seriously have got that from his post. He's saying he can't believe there's a debate over hurt vs. injure as regards Willy's value.

 

[Silky mitts]

You can't seriously have got that from his post. He's saying he can't believe there's a debate over hurt vs. injure as regards Willy's value.

Is he saying there's a debate as to whether he injured William Karlsson or whether he hurt Karlsson so he didn't compete as hard in the Finals? Or whether that was taken into account for his salary?

 

[Calicaps]

Is he saying there's a debate as to whether he injured William Karlsson or whether he hurt Karlsson so he didn't compete as hard in the Finals? Or whether that was taken into account for his salary?

What? I don't even understand the question. I'll let him answer for himself.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You think there's a debate as to whether Wilson injured opponents?

What are you reading? He made no such claim.

 

[Silky mitts]

What are you reading? He made no such claim.

I can't believe this is still going, and that it's now hinging on whether or not TW hurt/injured opponents and if that translates to cash.

I also wonder what people are seeing when they watch him play. He's not the same guy he was 5 years ago but I believe some are still viewing him through that lens.

Many will reluctantly concede his forechecking has become top notch, and his hitting and PKing are elite. But what few will admit is that his hands and awareness have also developed considerably in just the past year. Gone are the days where you should be flat out shocked iF he puts together 2-3 dekes and a pass, or relieved if he doesn't have the puck explode off his stick on a bang-bang play. He anticipates the flow of the play and goes exactly where he's needed 90% of the time, and more often than not he can make a few nice plays with his stick and his feet.

What he doesn't do, yet, is pull off the flashy puck control moves at top speed like the elite scoring forwards, and he may never do that. That's what people seem to fault him for, and why they drop him down so many notches. But if he can learn to power through opponents with 1 or 2 moves and pure physical force/speed like Ovechkin did in his early years he will become a force on the rush and then LOOK OUT.

I read this like I can't believe people are saying that Wilson injured and/or hurt people and are also saying he got more money for injuring or hurting opponents and that if you watch him play with no preconceptions that you too will see that he is worth 6yr/$31M physicality notwithstanding.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

He gets more $ because he’s physically effective on a level few are. Injuries are an unfortunate byproduct of a hard hitting game. I’ve already stated I think he’s about $617k overpaid on opening night. I also think he has a few more levels to reach in his offensive game and will close that gap down. There are a large amount of fans who like the player enough, who have seen the year to year improvement, who understand sometimes big guys take longer to develop in the offensive end, that are simply ok with the contract today....I guess I’m one of them.

 

[kicksavedave]

Is he saying there's a debate as to whether he injured William Karlsson or whether he hurt Karlsson so he didn't compete as hard in the Finals? Or whether that was taken into account for his salary?

If you're talking about me (referring to me as "he" in this post), I never said any such thing as this, but Arti tried to twist my words into something along those lines. I stated clearly that injuring people is not a skill that adds value, any old bum can cheap shot or accidentally injure an opponent and that is very specifically NOT what I am referring to about TW. What I DID say about TW is that he has an ability to be phsyically imposing that has a potential to alter how opponents play against him, and THAT has value! I then used some specific examples of how, late in a series, Dmen cough up the puck rather than take the full brunt of a hit. Simplified, Willy can wear people down (physically and mentally) like few others can, and THAT has value. Also referred to how TW will take a hit to make a play, and that has value.

I never said a single darn thing about injuring anyone, or being able to injure people having value - NOTHING OF THAT SORT. Others tried to put those words in my mouth but I spit them back out promptly.

 

[Silky mitts]

If you're talking about me (referring to me as "he" in this post), I never said any such thing as this, but Arti tried to twist my words into something along those lines. I stated clearly that injuring people is not a skill that adds value, any old bum can cheap shot or accidentally injure an opponent and that is very specifically NOT what I am referring to about TW. What I DID say about TW is that he has an ability to be phsyically imposing that has a potential to alter how opponents play against him, and THAT has value! I then used some specific examples of how, late in a series, Dmen cough up the puck rather than take the full brunt of a hit. Simplified, Willy can wear people down like few others can, and THAT has value. Also referred to how TW will take a hit to make a play, and that has value.

I never said a single darn thing about injuring anyone, or being able to injure people having value - NOTHING OF THAT SORT. Others tried to put those words in my mouth but I spit them back out promptly.

Was quoting g00n a couple of posts before, but I believe Wilson injuring people generally within the flow of a hockey game has value (as opposed to stepping on guys or slew footing or whatever). It's what makes him so unique.

 

[third man in]

Even just going by production and ignoring Willy's physicality he was 43rd (go figure) among RW in scoring. That's with his time on the bottom 6. Him playing the whole season in the top 6 and some minor improvement will have him up around 45 points which is ok for a 1st liner with no PP time.

That's not even factoring in he's probably the most physical player in the league. He seems to be developing into a true power forward. One of the only ones left in the league. They usually peak later than skill forwards. Locking him up through the rest of his 20s is a huge positive. He might even be worth the 5.17 as early as this season.

 

[g00n]

I read this like I can't believe people are saying that Wilson injured and/or hurt people and are also saying he got more money for injuring or hurting opponents and that if you watch him play with no preconceptions that you too will see that he is worth 6yr/$31M physicality notwithstanding.

Given the words I used and the context of the rest of my post I hoped it would be clear that I think it's ridiculous this discussion is devolving into narrow definitions of "hurt" and "injure" and then attaching dollar values to that as if it's the main selling point for his skills, or that he's merely a wrecking ball with value based on "damage" to his targets.

Wilson's physicality is a part of the package, as is intimidation and threat of PAIN. But when we're so far into the thread, and that's what hometown fans are still talking about, it seems cheap and demeaning, and plays directly into the caricature that's been built up by fans of all the other teams. Nobody who's a fan of this team or who has watched Wilson with even the slightest bit of hockey acumen should be falling for such a line.

 

[StrikingDistance]

This thread needs a DNR order.

Wilson only pawn in game of life.

 

[Silky mitts]

Given the words I used and the context of the rest of my post I hoped it would be clear that I think it's ridiculous this discussion is devolving into narrow definitions of "hurt" and "injure" and then attaching dollar values to that as if it's the main selling point for his skills, or that he's merely a wrecking ball with value based on "damage" to his targets.

Wilson's physicality is a part of the package, as is intimidation and threat of PAIN. But when we're so far into the thread, and that's what hometown fans are still talking about, it seems cheap and demeaning, and plays directly into the caricature that's been built up by fans of all the other teams. Nobody who's a fan of this team or who has watched Wilson with even the slightest bit of hockey acumen should be falling for such a line.

The idea that the threat of pain is going to affect the way an NHL player is going to play is demeaning to NHL players. But I saw an Islanders team check out after seeing 38 year old Visnovsky’s career end.

 

[g00n]

The idea that the threat of pain is going to affect the way an NHL player is going to play is demeaning to NHL players. But I saw an Islanders team check out after seeing 38 year old Visnovsky’s career end.

Oh for god's sake. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Now we're quibbling over "pain" and whether or not pro athletes pull up short because of pain or injury or "damage" or "hurt".

This is ridiculous.

 

[Calicaps]

Enough already. We have ~100 votes and in the poll and things really are off the rails.Thread closed. Further discussion of Wilson can return to the player discussion thread.