Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren Leafs top pick in 2017 - Part II (Continued)

crump

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Feb 26, 2004
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Read somewhere that he will get a chance to strut his stuff at the main camp. I think a player like Liljegren needs good, high end players to play with to show his true worth. It will be nice to see him play with guys who can anticipate and actually take a pass from him.
 

Marshy

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Oct 3, 2007
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Read somewhere that he will get a chance to strut his stuff at the main camp. I think a player like Liljegren needs good, high end players to play with to show his true worth. It will be nice to see him play with guys who can anticipate and actually take a pass from him.


You never know. Give him a 9 game showcase?
 

Kiwi

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I think he would be in the Marlies top 5 for sure
Dermott Holl the 2 Swedes (who would also help him feel at home). I already think he is better than Nielsen (especially in skating) and Valiev. Now if Dermott or one of the Swedes make it to the leads to start the season that gives him even more room.
That said him going back to Sweden is not a bad thing but I just think tml is set up to support this kid if he does come over.

I have grave concerns about Nielsen's skating but he needs to be given this off-season and then plenty of TOI with the Marlies to see if he can improve in that area
He's just to young for me to be willing to basically bury at this point

Valiev I've basically given up on though
I don't really care what they do with him at this point

That means Liljegren would be behind Dermott Nielsen Borgman Rosen Holl and the experienced guy they picked up out of the Kings organization before a kid like Liljegren gets a look in

On a team like the Marlies that's balancing player development with a mandate to win for the good of the younger guys development I'm not sure that having a kid like Liljegren in the mix is going to be what's best for his long term development
If he was guaranteed plenty of ice time I'd be all for it but that's going to be an uphill struggle for him unless he's ultra impressive in camp
 

Man Bear Pig

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Aug 10, 2008
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The Leafs need to take their time with him. What's the rush? The kid practically missed a year with illness, lets not throw him to the wolves. Best case scenario he's a #5 next year. There's more than enough players in the system who could provide the same.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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Putting D+1 rookies, especially 18-year-old ones tends to be an extremely risky proposition. It looked to work for Ekblad, and Chychrun was fine this year, but the team was terrible, and the rest of the league would have sent him down. The jury is out on Hanifin. Even highly regarded ones went back to juniors/NCAA like Berrard, Redden, Jovanovski, and EJ. When I see the list of NHL defenders since 1990 who played in the league in their 18 year old season I see guys who mostly disappointed such as Trevordovsky, Bogosian, Aki Berg, Klesla, and Sbisa. Other guys who had good to decent careers but never lived up to their initial promise such as Hamrlik and Kyle McLaren (never developed an offensive game). Brent Burns is the notable exception, but pretty sure he was moved back and forth between forward and was also released to the WJC.

It has been better with 19 year olds in their D+1 for whatever reason with guys like Jones, Pronger, Fowler, Hedman, and Doughty. There are obviously still busts, but it doesn't seem as extreme.

It seems rushing teenage defenders the NHL tends to stifle their offensive game, as they really can't test what does and doesn't work at this level and instead focus on playing such a mistake free game (to varying degrees of success) that they never develop these skills later on. Liljegren should have to absolutely force his way onto this team by being good enough for a top 4 role. Otherwise it's to the AHL or SHL. Even if he is our 5th or 6th best defender, it is probably not in his and our long-term best interests to rush him. Send him down and develop. We want him to be the next OEL, and to do that even if he is ready now, probably requires extra patience.
 

Man Bear Pig

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Putting D+1 rookies, especially 18-year-old ones tends to be an extremely risky proposition. It looked to work for Ekblad, and Chychrun was fine this year, but the team was terrible, and the rest of the league would have sent him down. The jury is out on Hanifin. Even highly regarded ones went back to juniors/NCAA like Berrard, Redden, Jovanovski, and EJ. When I see the list of NHL defenders since 1990 who played in the league in their 18 year old season I see guys who mostly disappointed such as Trevordovsky, Bogosian, Aki Berg, Klesla, and Sbisa. Other guys who had good to decent careers but never lived up to their initial promise such as Hamrlik and Kyle McLaren (never developed an offensive game). Brent Burns is the notable exception, but pretty sure he was moved back and forth between forward and was also released to the WJC.

It has been better with 19 year olds in their D+1 for whatever reason with guys like Jones, Pronger, Fowler, Hedman, and Doughty. There are obviously still busts, but it doesn't seem as extreme.

It seems rushing teenage defenders the NHL tends to stifle their offensive game, as they really can't test what does and doesn't work at this level and instead focus on playing such a mistake free game (to varying degrees of success) that they never develop these skills later on. Liljegren should have to absolutely force his way onto this team by being good enough for a top 4 role. Otherwise it's to the AHL or SHL. Even if he is our 5th or 6th best defender, it is probably not in his and our long-term best interests to rush him. Send him down and develop. We want him to be the next OEL, and to do that even if he is ready now, probably requires extra patience.
I wanna point out that guys like Ekblad and Chychrun were also men amongst boys as junior players. Liljegren isn't tiny but he's not exactly a man yet either. The kid needs a year. Not even debatable in my mind. No prospect, unless you're a Matthews type, should be put right into the NHL.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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I wanna point out that guys like Ekblad and Chychrun were also men amongst boys as junior players. Liljegren isn't tiny but he's not exactly a man yet either. The kid needs a year. Not even debatable in my mind. No prospect, unless you're a Matthews type, should be put right into the NHL.
There's the occasional undersized forward who can do it like P. Kane but most need another year. In general, it pays to be patient. Now, it might partially be that these defenders were playing on generally terrible teams and played way above their heads. The only defenders in recent memory who I can think of who wasn't a man-child or had a pro physique who did it in their D+1 were Doughty and Fowler. Event the late birthdays who did in there D+1 tended to be quite tall and have elite physical tools (Jones, Bouwmeester, and Pronger). Adam Larsson also did, he was fairly big and also had 2 years of SHL experience seeing consistent minutes.
 

saltming

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I have grave concerns about Nielsen's skating but he needs to be given this off-season and then plenty of TOI with the Marlies to see if he can improve in that area
He's just to young for me to be willing to basically bury at this point

Valiev I've basically given up on though
I don't really care what they do with him at this point

That means Liljegren would be behind Dermott Nielsen Borgman Rosen Holl and the experienced guy they picked up out of the Kings organization before a kid like Liljegren gets a look in

On a team like the Marlies that's balancing player development with a mandate to win for the good of the younger guys development I'm not sure that having a kid like Liljegren in the mix is going to be what's best for his long term development
If he was guaranteed plenty of ice time I'd be all for it but that's going to be an uphill struggle for him unless he's ultra impressive in camp

I have not written Nielsen off either but I cannot see his skating ever equalling lil Tim's
Also Keefe is really good about balancing ice time even for struggling players and winning.
Having him here would be my preference but if he get loaned to a better team known for development I would not be upset.
 

StuckOutHere

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Feb 10, 2010
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@kristen_shilton 2m2 minutes ago
Timothy Liljegren will only play in Sweden or with the Marlies next season. No possibility of him joining the OHL's IceDogs.
 

zeke

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Mar 14, 2005
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Literally, their age was the only thing they had in common.

it's funny because the opposite of the conventional wisdom is actually true.

they thought schenn was ready becausd he was big, when really he needed to improve his mobility (not that that was ever a realistic possibility).
 

MJ65

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Jul 12, 2009
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David Alterâ€ÂVerified account @dalter 49m49 minutes ago
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Lamoriello says it Liljegren will either be playing pro in Sweden or with the Marlies next season. One or the other.
 

DopeyFish

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Nov 17, 2009
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David Alterâ€ÂVerified account @dalter 49m49 minutes ago
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Lamoriello says it Liljegren will either be playing pro in Sweden or with the Marlies next season. One or the other.

I think it may be a decent idea to go the AHL route

But it could be problematic if Nielsen/Dermott start in the NHL... there'd be 3 swedish D transitioning to smaller ice at the same time and you'd want to have those other guys be a stabilizing presence.
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Putting D+1 rookies, especially 18-year-old ones tends to be an extremely risky proposition. It looked to work for Ekblad, and Chychrun was fine this year, but the team was terrible, and the rest of the league would have sent him down. The jury is out on Hanifin. Even highly regarded ones went back to juniors/NCAA like Berrard, Redden, Jovanovski, and EJ. When I see the list of NHL defenders since 1990 who played in the league in their 18 year old season I see guys who mostly disappointed such as Trevordovsky, Bogosian, Aki Berg, Klesla, and Sbisa. Other guys who had good to decent careers but never lived up to their initial promise such as Hamrlik and Kyle McLaren (never developed an offensive game). Brent Burns is the notable exception, but pretty sure he was moved back and forth between forward and was also released to the WJC.

It has been better with 19 year olds in their D+1 for whatever reason with guys like Jones, Pronger, Fowler, Hedman, and Doughty. There are obviously still busts, but it doesn't seem as extreme.

It seems rushing teenage defenders the NHL tends to stifle their offensive game, as they really can't test what does and doesn't work at this level and instead focus on playing such a mistake free game (to varying degrees of success) that they never develop these skills later on. Liljegren should have to absolutely force his way onto this team by being good enough for a top 4 role. Otherwise it's to the AHL or SHL. Even if he is our 5th or 6th best defender, it is probably not in his and our long-term best interests to rush him. Send him down and develop. We want him to be the next OEL, and to do that even if he is ready now, probably requires extra patience.

Nice post, this makes complete sense to me. There have been discussions over the years about rushing players, especially defencemen. Is it a myth that rushing them can stunt their development or not? The debate never seems to get anywhere, probably because there's no way to prove what would have happened had players been handled differently. Anyhow, I've always believed that rushing players, especially Dmen is a really bad idea and can basically ruin them so I enjoyed reading this post.
 

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