Thoughts on stick length, leverage, and stick flex

[puckpilot]

I just got a new Super Tacks 2.0, and as I was playing around with it, it felt a bit stiff. So when I was in my local hockey story getting my skates sharpened, I decided to check out the same stick with a lighter flex. Since I use junior sticks, that meant going down from my usual 50 flex and sheepishly taking a 40 flex stick down to the shooting area.

As an employee taped up the blade so I could shoot, he took notice of the extremely light flex and gave me a funny look. So I had to once again share my big spiel on how junior flex sticks seem to fit me better.

That got me thinking about junior stick flex and I have this theory that I wanted to put out there and see what others thought. Hopefully, this isn’t too rambly and makes some sense.

When you cut a stick down, it technically doesn’t change the flex rating. What the stick is made of doesn’t change, just the amount of leverage a person has to be able to bend it does. The shorter something is the less leverage one has to bend it, so it feels stiffer. IMHO, that’s why taller people can use higher flex sticks more easily.

So intermediate sticks uncut are usually around 58” and they can range from 55 flex to 75 flex. 50 flex junior sticks are usually 52”. If I were to extend a 50 flex junior stick’s length to 58” it would still be a 50 flex stick, so there should only be a 5 flex difference between a 55 flex intermediate and a 50 flex junior.

So now, when you cut a stick down, the rule of thumb is that the stick will feel around 3-5 flex stiffer for each inch removed. So wouldn’t this mean that a 50 flex 52” junior stick should feel 18-30 flex stiffer than if it were a 58” long stick? And when compared to a 55 flex 58” intermediate, the 52” junior stick would feel like a 68-80 flex stick?

I know junior shafts are smaller, and I’m not sure if that factors in or not, but what does everyone think? Am I out to lunch on this?

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[Slats432]

My understanding is changing the length does change the flex.

 

[puckpilot]

My understanding is changing the length does change the flex.

Here's a manager from True hockey explaining it. Flex doesn't change.

 

[Grodon]

Ok that vid makes sense.
Maybe there should be two terms, Absolute Flex, and Relative Flex.

Where Absolute Flex is the material flex of the stick, which would not change whether you cut a stick or not, whereas the Relative Flex is the perceived Absolute Flex at 60". So a 77 Flex cut to 54" would have a Relative Flex of 90 flex, for example.

 

[Cams]

Ok that vid makes sense.
Maybe there should be two terms, Absolute Flex, and Relative Flex.

Where Absolute Flex is the material flex of the stick, which would not change whether you cut a stick or not, whereas the Relative Flex is the perceived Absolute Flex at 60". So a 77 Flex cut to 54" would have a Relative Flex of 90 flex, for example.

That seems like the easiest way to explain. I'll have to try to remember that when explaining it to someone who doesn't understand.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The flexibility of the shaft itself doesn't change, it's just that it takes more effort to bend something short rather than something long. The farther your top hand is from the ground, the more leverage you have to bend the stick.

How tall are you for a 50 flex to feel too stiff for you if you don't mind me asking?

 

[puckpilot]

Ok that vid makes sense.
Maybe there should be two terms, Absolute Flex, and Relative Flex.

Where Absolute Flex is the material flex of the stick, which would not change whether you cut a stick or not, whereas the Relative Flex is the perceived Absolute Flex at 60". So a 77 Flex cut to 54" would have a Relative Flex of 90 flex, for example.

Yeah, something clearer like that would be helpful coming from manufactures, since they're making sticks at different lengths now. I mean you have senior sticks that come out of the box at 63" and 60". Imagine if each of the mentioned sticks is 85 flex and you cut both down to 57". If you go by the rule of thumb that each in adds 3-5 flex one stick will supposedly be 100 flex and the other 115, which IMHO can be confusing.

How tall are you for a 50 flex to feel too stiff for you if you don't mind me asking?

I'm 5'5. I use 52-53 inch sticks, and I don't exactly have the greatest upper body strength.

Not all 50 flex sticks feel too stiff. I have a 50 flex Warrior QRL that feels perfect, but the blade/hosel can open up on me sometimes, so my search for the right stick continues.

I spent the better part of 5hrs on the ice Friday just working/focusing on dropping my weight down on the Tacks 2.0 to flex it for wrist and snap shots. I thought maybe my technique was just getting sloppy. Though I can get the stick to load up and snap over, it feels like it's taking up a disproportionate amount of effort when compared to my QRL, or even the 1N or the Xcore 9. It feels like I'm trying muscling the puck instead of letting the stick do the work, and that results in a poorer shot in terms of accuracy, velocity, and release.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I'm 5'5. I use 52-53 inch sticks, and I don't exactly have the greatest upper body strength.

Not all 50 flex sticks feel too stiff. I have a 50 flex Warrior QRL that feels perfect, but the blade/hosel can open up on me sometimes, so my search for the right stick continues.

I spent the better part of 5hrs on the ice Friday just working/focusing on dropping my weight down on the Tacks 2.0 to flex it for wrist and snap shots. I thought maybe my technique was just getting sloppy. Though I can get the stick to load up and snap over, it feels like it's taking up a disproportionate amount of effort when compared to my QRL, or even the 1N or the Xcore 9. It feels like I'm trying muscling the puck instead of letting the stick do the work, and that results in a poorer shot in terms of accuracy, velocity, and release.

I feel like the junior sticks have way less torsional stiffness than the senior ones, which would be why you feel it's perfect flex wise but the hosel area opens up on you.

If you're left handed, you might want to look at a Johnny Gaudreau pro stock. I believe he uses a 55 flex with Warrior now, and I'm sure his sticks have the necessary reinforcements to handle the stress that comes with playing a game at the NHL level. His pattern is pretty much a P88 too. Check it out:

https://www.prostockhockey.com/hock...vert-qrl-dressed-as-dynasty-hd1-55-flex-stick

 

[puckpilot]

I feel like the junior sticks have way less torsional stiffness than the senior ones, which would be why you feel it's perfect flex wise but the hosel area opens up on you.

I appreciate the effort to find that link, but unfortunately I've been down that road, sort of. I have a couple of Warrior 55 flex Diablo intermediates. No problem with the hosel and blade opening up, and the flex and shots feel perfect, that is until I cut one of the darn things down. I tried for over 6 months to use a 58" stick. Shots were great but couldn't stick handle worth a damn.

But lately, I've been finding the newer junior sticks have made great improvements on hosel and blade stiffness. I have a 1X, 1N, Xcore9, CCM Superfast, and the mentioned Tacks 2.0 and all their hosels and blades hold up under the weight of my fat arse even when I lean into a slapshot. The CCM sticks are exceptionally stable. No give in their hosels at all. In fact they feel almost like intermediate sticks.

I just got a great deal on a Warrior Alpha QX and I'm waiting on that. Crossing my fingers.

 

[Cams]

Does a junior stick not feel too tiny in your hands? I'm not a big guy, 5'8-9, 190 lbs, and find even the intermediate shafts too skinny.

 

[puckpilot]

Does a junior stick not feel too tiny in your hands? I'm not a big guy, 5'8-9, 190 lbs, and find even the intermediate shafts too skinny.

I have small hands and feet. (insert joke here) :p But seriously, to give perspective on my hand size, my skates are size 4.5 and I'm an adult.

Plus it's like anything else, you just get used to it.

 

[pix530]

Just FYI - SuperTacks 2.0 flex 40 is perfect uncut for 5.1 player.

 

[puckpilot]

Ok that vid makes sense.
Maybe there should be two terms, Absolute Flex, and Relative Flex.

Where Absolute Flex is the material flex of the stick, which would not change whether you cut a stick or not, whereas the Relative Flex is the perceived Absolute Flex at 60". So a 77 Flex cut to 54" would have a Relative Flex of 90 flex, for example.

I was poking around the web trying to find out how companies measure flex and I came across these resources.

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/publications/russell-hunt-tpt-formatted.pdf
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/hockeyflex.php

Apparently there's a formula for it.

Flex = [48EI/L^3]*D where, EI = the flextural rigidity of the material being measured, L = the length, and D = the distance of deflection.

Any way before everyone's eyes glaze over. There's a practical application. After I messed around with the formula given the information in the two resources I derived a simple formula for relative flex. It doesn't take into account things like variation on stiffness along the shaft, kick points, and stuff like that, but I think it can be a helpful guide, if I'm correct that is. I haven't done serious math in a long time, so I could be completely out to lunch on this. Any way here's the formula.

Flex Relative = (Absolute Flex)/L^3

L needs to be in meters for the formula to work.

But I think it's right given this the statement below that was in one of the resources.

The force needed to bend a stick by one inch depends on the bending length. To measure the flex, the shaft is usually supported at two points a distance L apart, then the force is applied half way between the two supports. The standard test distance is L = 1.0 m. However, if L is shortened to say 0.5 m then the force to bend the stick by one inch will increase by a factor of 8. If it takes 85 lb to bend a one meter section of the stick by one inch, it will take 680 lbs to bend a 0.5 m section of the same stick by one inch.

If we plug the information from the red text into my formula it seems to work.

We get Flex Relative = 85/(.5)^3 = 85/.125 = 680

So how does this help someone looking for a stick?

I'll use myself as an example. I found a 55-flex stick that was 58" long felt just right for me in terms of flex. But it was too long. But once I cut it down to my preferred length it was too stiff. After playing around with a bunch of sticks, I figured that maybe at 53" the right stick would be around 45 flex for me.

So if I calculate the Relative Flex of that 58" inch stick. 58" = 1.47 meters

Relative Flex = 55/(1.47)^3 = 55/3.18 = 17.3 lbs/inch

So my ideal stick would have a Relative Flex of 17.3 lbs/inch

With that information, I can calculate what Absolute Flex I would need for a 53" stick to fit my needs. I can do this by just rearranging my formula, and using 53" (1.35 meters) as the length.

Absolute Flex = (Relative Flex)*L^3 = 17.3 * (1.35)^3 = 17.3*2.46 = 42.6 lbs / inch.

The answer seems to fit in line of what my experimenting has told me. But like I said, this is just a guideline because there are lots of other things that factor into stick preference like kick point, manufacturer, etc. But for those still following, what do you think? Does my math seem right? Is this useful?