TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
You guys honestly believe these players didn't care? You think, after working so hard to get to the finals, these guys just decided not to care? Perhaps, they have a secret society, similar to the illuminati, where they gather together to decide whether or not they want to win the series? The first 3, they decided to win. But this one, they suddenly made the decision to give up and not try anymore?
You really think that these players care less than you do? You really think that you care about Joe Thornton winning a cup more than Joe Thornton cares about winning one? Ridiculous. All of us, we live lives outside of hockey; we have our own jobs, our own friends, our own activities, etc. For these guys, hockey is their life. They are all best friends with one another. These guys care more about winning than we could ever imagine. There is absolutely no way that after 3 rounds of putting it all on the line to win, Pavelski, Thornton, and Marleau just decided to give up. Absolutely ridiculous notion that is in no way based in reality. Want some reality? Here goes.
THORNTON AND PAVELSKI DO NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. THORNTON AND PAVELSKI DO NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. THORNTON AND PAVELSKI DO NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. THORNTON AND PAVELSKI DO NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS.
The Sharks were fortunate to draw 3 relatively weak opponents in the first 3 rounds. A crippled and decimated Los Angeles team that seemed to have injuries to their top players. A young up and coming Nashville team whose top 2 defensemen both decided to begin playing like garbage. And then the St. Louis Blues...that one speaks for itself. The Pens were a completely different story: an elite team!
Pavelski, 1 point, an ENG in this whole series. Thornton 3 assists in 6 games. Pretty inexcusable. But this is pretty consistent from these two.
In fact, in every series loss the Sharks have had since 2008-2009, he has scored 3 goals...1 of them being an ENG, the other 2 against LA in 2014. That's 3 goals in 41 games. 1 goal on a manned net. IN HALF OF A SEASON. This is a guy that will **** around and score 41 goals in a season, with 1 goal on a manned net in half a season. Why? Poor luck, most certainly; he has definitely suffered from some poor playoff luck. But, you know what else caused that? PAVELSKI DOES NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. Against Dallas in 07-08 he had 2 goals in 6 and 0 in 3 against Detroit. Add those games, that's 5 goals in 50 games, 4 on a manned net. Say it with me folks. JOE PAVELSKI DOES NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. He is a fantastic leader. A great captain. A solid two-way player. But he does NOT produce against elite teams. He never has, and it is highly unlikely that he ever will. Expecting him to be the primary threat in the playoffs will get you very far against poor teams. He will light up an Avalanche team that doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs. A Detroit team that is completely past its prime that is beginning to lose it all. A Vancouver team that is doing more or less the same. An LA team that is doing more or less the same. A St. Louis team that has a great defense on paper but doesn't have one in reality and that flip flops between goaltenders twice in a series. A Nashville team with Weber and Josi playing like the new Dillon and Polak. But he does not score against elite teams.
Thornton...there's a reason people refer to him as a playoff choker. It's because he is one. I know in the past I have defended him, but ultimately, I must come to terms with it. Thornton is a playoff choker. His production drops significantly in the playoffs. He has never been over PPG in a playoff run. It's not that the pressure gets to him and he suddenly reverts to a lesser version of himself. It's that he cannot produce against elite teams either, and he does not do well in a playoff style game. Yes, I am flip flopping, being wishy washy, etc. on this one, but it's simply the truth. I love Thornton but his playoff production is not what it should be. In fact, the only series we've lost where Thornton played well was against STL in 2012, and that's not really an elite team in all honesty. 40 points in 58 games in series that we have lost. That's not terrible, in fact, it's actually pretty good compared to Pavelski. And considering that series that we've lost will be inherently skewed data, it's solid production. But, when you consider how he has produced in the regular season as a Shark, his pace in that number of regular season games would probably be like 65 or 70.
To suggest that he genuinely does not care is absurd. These players all play with a lot of passion. They all care. They eat, sleep, breathe hockey. They will wake up tomorrow morning with the most painful hangover they have ever suffered, regardless of whether or not they decide to drink. But Pavelski and Thornton do not produce against elite teams. Thornton has done it a few times. Pavelski never has.
EDIT: Forgot Marleau but he has produced before against elite teams and in series that we've lost. He just sucks now and is completely done for whatever reason. It certainly seems like something is wrong with him mentally. He is no longer an elite player or even a core player on this team at this stage.
You really think that these players care less than you do? You really think that you care about Joe Thornton winning a cup more than Joe Thornton cares about winning one? Ridiculous. All of us, we live lives outside of hockey; we have our own jobs, our own friends, our own activities, etc. For these guys, hockey is their life. They are all best friends with one another. These guys care more about winning than we could ever imagine. There is absolutely no way that after 3 rounds of putting it all on the line to win, Pavelski, Thornton, and Marleau just decided to give up. Absolutely ridiculous notion that is in no way based in reality. Want some reality? Here goes.
THORNTON AND PAVELSKI DO NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. THORNTON AND PAVELSKI DO NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. THORNTON AND PAVELSKI DO NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. THORNTON AND PAVELSKI DO NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS.
The Sharks were fortunate to draw 3 relatively weak opponents in the first 3 rounds. A crippled and decimated Los Angeles team that seemed to have injuries to their top players. A young up and coming Nashville team whose top 2 defensemen both decided to begin playing like garbage. And then the St. Louis Blues...that one speaks for itself. The Pens were a completely different story: an elite team!
Pavelski, 1 point, an ENG in this whole series. Thornton 3 assists in 6 games. Pretty inexcusable. But this is pretty consistent from these two.
In fact, in every series loss the Sharks have had since 2008-2009, he has scored 3 goals...1 of them being an ENG, the other 2 against LA in 2014. That's 3 goals in 41 games. 1 goal on a manned net. IN HALF OF A SEASON. This is a guy that will **** around and score 41 goals in a season, with 1 goal on a manned net in half a season. Why? Poor luck, most certainly; he has definitely suffered from some poor playoff luck. But, you know what else caused that? PAVELSKI DOES NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. Against Dallas in 07-08 he had 2 goals in 6 and 0 in 3 against Detroit. Add those games, that's 5 goals in 50 games, 4 on a manned net. Say it with me folks. JOE PAVELSKI DOES NOT PRODUCE AGAINST ELITE TEAMS. He is a fantastic leader. A great captain. A solid two-way player. But he does NOT produce against elite teams. He never has, and it is highly unlikely that he ever will. Expecting him to be the primary threat in the playoffs will get you very far against poor teams. He will light up an Avalanche team that doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs. A Detroit team that is completely past its prime that is beginning to lose it all. A Vancouver team that is doing more or less the same. An LA team that is doing more or less the same. A St. Louis team that has a great defense on paper but doesn't have one in reality and that flip flops between goaltenders twice in a series. A Nashville team with Weber and Josi playing like the new Dillon and Polak. But he does not score against elite teams.
Thornton...there's a reason people refer to him as a playoff choker. It's because he is one. I know in the past I have defended him, but ultimately, I must come to terms with it. Thornton is a playoff choker. His production drops significantly in the playoffs. He has never been over PPG in a playoff run. It's not that the pressure gets to him and he suddenly reverts to a lesser version of himself. It's that he cannot produce against elite teams either, and he does not do well in a playoff style game. Yes, I am flip flopping, being wishy washy, etc. on this one, but it's simply the truth. I love Thornton but his playoff production is not what it should be. In fact, the only series we've lost where Thornton played well was against STL in 2012, and that's not really an elite team in all honesty. 40 points in 58 games in series that we have lost. That's not terrible, in fact, it's actually pretty good compared to Pavelski. And considering that series that we've lost will be inherently skewed data, it's solid production. But, when you consider how he has produced in the regular season as a Shark, his pace in that number of regular season games would probably be like 65 or 70.
To suggest that he genuinely does not care is absurd. These players all play with a lot of passion. They all care. They eat, sleep, breathe hockey. They will wake up tomorrow morning with the most painful hangover they have ever suffered, regardless of whether or not they decide to drink. But Pavelski and Thornton do not produce against elite teams. Thornton has done it a few times. Pavelski never has.
EDIT: Forgot Marleau but he has produced before against elite teams and in series that we've lost. He just sucks now and is completely done for whatever reason. It certainly seems like something is wrong with him mentally. He is no longer an elite player or even a core player on this team at this stage.
