Value of: Thomas Chabot

[KevinRedkey]

He's been good recently IMO

Id do this from the sens perspective. Would Chicago?

I've thought about this before. The main issue is Jones doesn't really have the style of play the Sens would prefer, and he's also almost 30yrs old. Not old by any means, but I fear he'll begin to decline once the Sens are true contenders.

Though I don't hate the idea. Just not thrilled about it that's all.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Probably doesn't have much value given his contract. He makes 8M per for 4 more years but his average salary is actually 9.5M.

Steady decline in his play since his excellent sophomore season and the value of offensive D has never been lower with the new PP set up.

Nonsense.
Despite playing 5 minutes less per night from his league leading 28 min nights, less PP time, and a team that was playing disgusting defensive hockey for years under DJ - Chabot is on pace for 10 goals 50 pts which is his career average and only down 5 pts from his sophomore year.
He’s a plus player and clearly looks rejuvenated under Martin.
You want to argue he’s not a top 30 guy, fine whatever - he’s a top pairing defenceman. Full stop.

He’s a better player than Chychrun in every respect except I guess his shot.
Love to keep both but it’s Chabot every time if I have to choose.

 

[KevinRedkey]

The Sens should definitely trade Chychrun instead of Chabot. They need to trade 1 of them, as you can't put all your eggs in 1 basket (LHD). Sanderson is clearly their #1 as he is truly 2-way, very good defensively and offensively. And the Chychrun - Chabot pairing doesn't work well, as each player struggles defensively in his own zone when playing the right side.

When they first got Chychrun, my opinion was that he is better than Chabot.

But after this season, I consider Chabot to be quite a bit better than Chychrun. Chabot's skating, puck movement, and passing is quite a bit better, and elite. Chychrun is a good player, but Chabot is clearly better.

With the Sens playing a Jacques Martin system (held Dallas to 15 shots, haven't seen the Sens defend like this for 20 years), and not the chaos of DJ Smith, Chabot really stands out as a really good player. Without the chaos, Chabot makes far fewer defensive mistakes and giveaways, amazing how a good system helps players to thrive.

The only things Chychrun does better than Chabot: harder shot, bigger and more physical, although he isn't particularly physical.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'll chime in on one thing...

Everything Chabot does well, Sanderson does as well. The same cannot be said Chychrun. I think having that variety leads to a better team overall, despite Chabot perhaps being better individually.

 

[Fatass]

Nonsense.
Despite playing 5 minutes less per night from his league leading 28 min nights, less PP time, and a team that was playing disgusting defensive hockey for years under DJ - Chabot is on pace for 10 goals 50 pts which is his career average and only down 5 pts from his sophomore year.
He’s a plus player and clearly looks rejuvenated under Martin.
You want to argue he’s not a top 30 guy, fine whatever - he’s a top pairing defenceman. Full stop.

He’s a better player than Chychrun in every respect except I guess his shot.
Love to keep both but it’s Chabot every time if I have to choose.

Chabot is better than Chychrun?

 

[sennysensen]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'll chime in on one thing...

Everything Chabot does well, Sanderson does as well. The same cannot be said Chychrun. I think having that variety leads to a better team overall, despite Chabot perhaps being better individually.

Sanderson makes as few mistakes as any Sens defenseman I've ever watched, and I've watched most games since 1995. It's uncanny how good, calm, and poised he is. Such a great skater, too. Ice water, never panics, totally in control always. And he is showing great offensive puck handling and wizardry now. And the little moves he makes in the defensive zone to evade forecheckers, take the puck away from opponents, little passes to get out of trouble, and zone clearances is incredible to watch, especially for a guy in his 2nd year.

Anyways, this is a Chabot thread, so I'll stop my Sandersonization now.

Chabot is better than Chychrun?

Quite easily, and it really stands out now that the Sens play a decent system instead of chaos on the ice. Chabot really thrives in the Jacques Martin system, and would really thrive with a team like Boston, although the Sens won't trade Chabot.

Chychrun is still a good player though.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Chabot is better than Chychrun?

I like Chychrun but yes, without question.

 

[Fatass]

Sanderson makes as few mistakes as any Sens defenseman I've ever watched, and I've watched most games since 1995. It's uncanny how good, calm, and poised he is. Such a great skater, too. Ice water, never panics, totally in control always. And he is showing great offensive puck handling and wizardry now. And the little moves he makes in the defensive zone to evade forecheckers, take the puck away from opponents, little passes to get out of trouble, and zone clearances is incredible to watch, especially for a guy in his 2nd year.

Anyways, this is a Chabot thread, so I'll stop my Sandersonization now.


Quite easily, and it really stands out now that the Sens play a decent system instead of chaos on the ice. Chabot really thrives in the Jacques Martin system, and would really thrive with a team like Boston, although the Sens won't trade Chabot.

Chychrun is still a good player though.

Imo the issue with the Sens isn’t their D. It’s some of their forwards struggle with commitment to the defensive side of the puck. If they can fit their D under the cap, then keep Chabot. Move a high priced forward if needed to make it work.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Ask Montreal in 2 or 3 seasons then, because Sens wont be selling then

I wonder how many posts from 2022 shared a similar sentiment

 

[KnockHobbler]

Chabot is better than Chychrun?

Yes. Chychrun has a nasty clapper but looks like a headless chicken a lot of the time

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'll chime in on one thing...

Everything Chabot does well, Sanderson does as well. The same cannot be said Chychrun. I think having that variety leads to a better team overall, despite Chabot perhaps being better individually.

Sanderson does not transition the puck as well as Chabot(at least not yet) - who is one of the best in the league in that aspect of the game & where he brings most of his value - and it's arguable whether he is a better goal scorer.

The only thing Sanderson doesn't do better than Chychrun is score goals, which he is still good at and Chabot is good at, too. I guess Chychrun is also the best at playing down low on the PP, and is a bit more physical?

 

[bert]

Sanderson makes as few mistakes as any Sens defenseman I've ever watched, and I've watched most games since 1995. It's uncanny how good, calm, and poised he is. Such a great skater, too. Ice water, never panics, totally in control always. And he is showing great offensive puck handling and wizardry now. And the little moves he makes in the defensive zone to evade forecheckers, take the puck away from opponents, little passes to get out of trouble, and zone clearances is incredible to watch, especially for a guy in his 2nd year.

Anyways, this is a Chabot thread, so I'll stop my Sandersonization now.


Quite easily, and it really stands out now that the Sens play a decent system instead of chaos on the ice. Chabot really thrives in the Jacques Martin system, and would really thrive with a team like Boston, although the Sens won't trade Chabot.

Chychrun is still a good player though.

Hunh? He has had two good games and they have been the last two after he was benched. He's been pretty terrible otherwise. No need to sugar coat it. He has cost them games consistently this year. Specifically Chicago and Anaheim he was horrible. There was a reason he was benched.

I dont think he's been better than Chychrun at all this year. His effort levels have been sad at times. Chychrun has a way better shot and has had to play out of position with a disengaged Chabot for large chunks of the year.

Maybe Chabot responds I am not sure, I hope so because the way he was trending compared to his talent level and salary was one of the largest regressions I can remember.

Chabot is better than Chychrun?

Loaded question, both have tremendous talent both are inconsistent leaving you wanting more. Personally I prefer the best version of Chychrun, his physical edge when it comes to battling for pucks and his ability to score goals sway it for me. I think in a playoff setting his skillset will be more valuable. Both are frusterating players.

 

[BondraTime]

Chabot is better than Chychrun?

Chabot is without a doubt better than Chych

Chych has the much better contract for the next year and a half

 

[SEALBound]

Freidman was speculating the possibility of Erik Karlsson going back to Ottawa. For discussion sake, would Ottawa rather trade Chabot or Chychrun as a base piece in the hypothetical deal?

Chabot makes sense from a cap structure but the the defense would be a lot stronger with Chabot vs Chychrun.

 

[Hale The Villain]

What new PP set up?

One defenseman QBing the PP from the top with the most talented players on the team (almost always forwards) playing on the sides, with two more forwards down low or in front of the net.

Now only need two talented D to run your PP units and there's no lack of players that can do it, which means the demand for offensive D is limited in comparison to defensive D.

Nonsense.
Despite playing 5 minutes less per night from his league leading 28 min nights, less PP time, and a team that was playing disgusting defensive hockey for years under DJ - Chabot is on pace for 10 goals 50 pts which is his career average and only down 5 pts from his sophomore year.
He’s a plus player and clearly looks rejuvenated under Martin.
You want to argue he’s not a top 30 guy, fine whatever - he’s a top pairing defenceman. Full stop.

He’s a better player than Chychrun in every respect except I guess his shot.
Love to keep both but it’s Chabot every time if I have to choose.

When Chabot put up 0.79 PPG in 2018/19 that put him 10th in the league that year.

Where does Chabot's 0.59 PPG in 2023/24 rank him this year? 26th.

Point totals from the blueline, particularly those who run the top PP for their team, have increased significantly, so 50 points doesn't mean as much as you seem to think it does anymore.

Besides it's not offense that Chabot struggles with, it's defense. He's simply not good defensively.

Perhaps that will change under a new coach but I don't know how many teams are desperate enough to pay a non-elite left-handed OFD 8M a year in cap (9.5M per in salary) and pay significant assets to the Sens for the privilege.

 

[BondraTime]

Freidman was speculating the possibility of Erik Karlsson going back to Ottawa. For discussion sake, would Ottawa rather trade Chabot or Chychrun as a base piece in the hypothetical deal?

Chabot makes sense from a cap structure but the the defense would be a lot stronger with Chabot vs Chychrun.

Can't be Chychrun, unless EK came with a ton of retention, which I don't think would happen.

Only way it could happen is with Chabot's 8 million going the other way, and they would then still be unable to afford Chychrun on his next contract, unless they are willing ton spend ~26ish million on 3 D.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Freidman was speculating the possibility of Erik Karlsson going back to Ottawa. For discussion sake, would Ottawa rather trade Chabot or Chychrun as a base piece in the hypothetical deal?

Chabot makes sense from a cap structure but the the defense would be a lot stronger with Chabot vs Chychrun.

The only possible way EK comes back to Ottawa is if the Pens want to re-tool and get younger and therefore are willing to swap him for Chabot, while also throwing in an extra asset or two given the 7 year age difference.

 

[BondraTime]

One defenseman QBing the PP from the top with the most talented players on the team (almost always forwards) playing on the sides, with two more forwards down low or in front of the net.

Now only need two talented D to run your PP units and there's no lack of players that can do it, which means the demand for offensive D is limited in comparison to defensive D.

That's been the PP set up the vast majority of the NHL has used for close to 2 decades though, the only time the Sens have used 2 D on the point on their PP since the 04-05' lockout, and even before when Alfie was the guy, was 2011-2013 with Karlsson and Gonchar. There hasn't been a big switch in PP philosophy in a long time.

Forwards have accounted for 74+% of PP deployment for over 10 years, and has never dropped below 68% all the way back to 2009.

You'll always get teams like Tampa with Serg/Hedman, and Nashville with Weber/Suter, but teams have been using a forward on the point for the better part of 20 years almost all the time.

The 1st unit is probably 95/5 with 1/3/1 vs 2/3
The 2nd unit is probably ~75/25 with 1/3/1 vs 2/3

Teams have been using that layout, give or take a few percentage points, for the better part of 15 years

 

[SEALBound]

Can't be Chychrun, unless EK came with a ton of retention, which I don't think would happen.

Only way it could happen is with Chabot's 8 million going the other way, and they would then still be unable to afford Chychrun on his next contract, unless they are willing ton spend ~26ish million on 3 D.

What if it was Chychrun+Mattieu?

 

[BondraTime]

What if it was Chychrun+Mattieu?

Sens would still need to replace Joseph with a player, and not sure he's a guy they would want to be moving.

EK really doesn't fit what the Sens are looking for, playstyle and age, unless they are going for a very drastic change

 

[Hale The Villain]

That's been the PP set up the vast majority of the NHL has used for close to 2 decades though, the only time the Sens have used 2 D on the point on their PP since the 04-05' lockout, and even before when Alfie was the guy, was 2012 and 2013 with Karlsson and Gonchar. There hasn't been a big switch in PP philosophy in a long time.

Forwards have accounted for 74+% of PP deployment for over 10 years, and has never dropped below 68% all the way back to 2009.

You'll always get teams like Tampa with Serg/Hedman, and Nashville with Weber/Suter, but teams have been using a forward on the point for the better part of 20 years almost all the time.

The 1st unit is probably 95/5 with 1/3/1 vs 2/3
The 2nd unit is probably ~75/25 with 1/3/1 vs 2/3

Teams have been using that layout, give or take a few percentage points, for the better part of 15 years

Well it appears I am mistaken. Eye test failed me. Could have sworn it was a relatively recent thing to almost exclusively have 4F/1D as the league-wide PP set-up.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Well it appears I am mistaken. Eye test failed me. Could have sworn it was a relatively recent thing to almost exclusively have 4F/1D as the league-wide PP set-up.

It is a relatively recent thing (within the last 10 years) to almost exclusively have 4F/1D as the league-wide PP set-up.

If I recall correctly, Ottawa was one of the teams which started it doing it before everyone else about a decade ago, but they only really started after losing Kuba/Gonchar.

 

[BondraTime]

Well it appears I am mistaken. Eye test failed me. Could have sworn it was a relatively recent thing to almost exclusively have 4F/1D as the league-wide PP set-up.

May be that I'm misinterpreting recent.

Came on very strong after the lockout, but the predominant way to operate in the 2010's was tee up a forward, or D from the point.

Just going by memory, the early 2000's was still split and it wasn't one way or the other, it wasn't strage to see either way. You're definitely right now it is very strange to see 2 D used.

You had your Alfie's being tee'd up by Redden, but you also had you McCabe's being tee'd up by Kaberle.

Definitely started to see a switch happening after the 2005 lockout, with every year become more and more rare to have a 2 D PP1, though PP2 was likely still D dominated.

A look at the NHL’s shift in power-play structure - TSN.ca

Travis Yost takes a closer look at the numbers behind teams moving to a four forwards/one defenceman setup on the power play.

www.tsn.ca

Somewhat show's here that it became rarer and rarer the further you moved away, I'd imagine it's in the very high 70's at this point, with maybe 1 team using 2 D on PP1 and maybe 7/8 on PP2.

There are about ~60 D leaguewide this year with PP time over 1:45, about ~50 over 2 mins.

 

[BondraTime]

It is a relatively recent thing (within the last 10 years) to almost exclusively have 4F/1D as the league-wide PP set-up.

If I recall correctly, Ottawa was one of the teams which started it doing it before everyone else about a decade ago, but they only really started after losing Kuba/Gonchar.

Ottawa used Alfredsson on the point in the early 2000's, and the whole league was essentially using a D on the point on PP1 in 2010. Forwards accounted for over 70% of PP time leaguewide in 2010, indicating 1 less D on PP1, increasing every year since 2010 to about an extra ~6/7%

Ovechkin has been on the point since his first game in the league in 2005, teams have been doing that for an extremely long time. It's become the go to setup for the vast majority to use since 2008 if I were to hazard a guess.

Since Chabot has been in the league, it's been a 1D PP setup exclusively.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The only possible way EK comes back to Ottawa is if the Pens want to re-tool and get younger and therefore are willing to swap him for Chabot, while also throwing in an extra asset or two given the 7 year age difference.

The talent level difference between the two is more significant than the age difference between the two.

I think Karlsson for Chabot close to straight up would be much more reasonable.

 

[JKG33]

Chabot (or Chychrun) for Karlsson would be a horrible trade for Ottawa.