This is getting beyond ridiculous now....

[FlyersFan10*]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=125221

Both sides are getting idiotic now. 4 and half hours to discuss revenue? Come on, get a damn deal worked out. With the threat of even more revenue being lost, do they not understand the importance of having a deal done ASAP? Obviously not.

I don't get it anymore. Both sides are totally moronic. It's clear from these meeting that they have no interest in getting a deal done. If they wanted one, they wouldn't be quitting the meetings after 4 hours and change.

I'm starting to hope now that the NHL just doesn't come back. How sad this whole sorry sordid thing has become.....

Click to read more...

 

[Cloned]

Actually, I see this as being better news than the previous "no progress, philosophical differences remain" line that was proclaimed every time the two sides met.

 

[FlyersFan10*]

My thing is this. Both sides know that the damage done to the game is probably irrepairable. My thinking would be that you would at least hold marathon sessions to get a deal done to stop the damage. I've been indirectly involved in union negotiations (my mom and dad were both union reps) and when deals needed to get done, they had non-stop bargaining agreement meetings until a deal was done.

The fact that neither side is doing anything like this leaves me scratching my head. Great, you're discussing revenue. What about getting a basic framework in place and working from there? The negotiations just seem to be spinning around in circles and are going nowhere. It's kind of frustrating that both sides have crapped away a season and billions in revenue only to be stuck on negotiating revenue.

There doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency from either side and I guess that's what the most infuriating part is. They seem rather non-chalant and just don't care what happens. And that bugs me.

 

[19nazzy]

Do you guys realize that with linkage to revenue this is probably one of the most, if not the most import part of this whole process?

 

[FlyersFan10*]

Do you guys realize that with linkage to revenue this is probably one of the most, if not the most import part of this whole process?

I do. However, to quit a session after only 4 and half hours to me seems a little absurd after you lost a season. I know if I'm a player, I'm making sure that my reps aren't leaving the room until something is in place. If I'm an owner, I'm making sure that the same is happening, we have an understanding in place and something to frame a deal around.

I'm just p.o'd that neither side seems to get it. And that's why the NHL will always be viewed as a bush league because this is a bush league tactic. It's time to get down to business and get a deal done, no matter how long it takes.

 

[Cloned]

My thing is this. Both sides know that the damage done to the game is probably irrepairable. My thinking would be that you would at least hold marathon sessions to get a deal done to stop the damage. I've been indirectly involved in union negotiations (my mom and dad were both union reps) and when deals needed to get done, they had non-stop bargaining agreement meetings until a deal was done.

The fact that neither side is doing anything like this leaves me scratching my head. Great, you're discussing revenue. What about getting a basic framework in place and working from there? The negotiations just seem to be spinning around in circles and are going nowhere. It's kind of frustrating that both sides have crapped away a season and billions in revenue only to be stuck on negotiating revenue.

There doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency from either side and I guess that's what the most infuriating part is. They seem rather non-chalant and just don't care what happens. And that bugs me.

I hear you. It is frustrating.

At the same time, I'm beginning to think that this IS the way they operate. They like to meander along, slowly and gradually drawing things out into a protracted process. Bear in mind that this "ramped up" schedule of meetings WAS made in the face of trying to reach an agreement more rapidly. This schedule and series of discussions ARE what the NHL and PA consider urgent.

I also think that the fact that they are discussing revenue at all is a sign that they have come to some sort of informal agreement that they need to get the basics down first before proceeding with a framework proposal. Or it may even be that they already have a basic framework agreed on and they are now discussing the revenue details. The latter is more unlikely, but the fact that the negative PR from both sides has been toned down recently is a good sign, IMO.

 

[me2]

My thing is this. Both sides know that the damage done to the game is probably irrepairable. My thinking would be that you would at least hold marathon sessions to get a deal done to stop the damage. I've been indirectly involved in union negotiations (my mom and dad were both union reps) and when deals needed to get done, they had non-stop bargaining agreement meetings until a deal was done.

The fact that neither side is doing anything like this leaves me scratching my head. Great, you're discussing revenue. What about getting a basic framework in place and working from there? The negotiations just seem to be spinning around in circles and are going nowhere. It's kind of frustrating that both sides have crapped away a season and billions in revenue only to be stuck on negotiating revenue.

There doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency from either side and I guess that's what the most infuriating part is. They seem rather non-chalant and just don't care what happens. And that bugs me.

They need to define revenue properly. The NHLPA isn't going to sign up to 54% of whatever the NHL just decides is hockey revenue. The NHL isn't going to set a cap at 65% of whatever the NHLPA decides is revenue (hockey and non-hockey). They need to agree on a total number, then work out how to divide it. Heck it could be set at 100% of the gate + nation TV deal, or it might be 50% of absolutely everything, or something in between.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

It's not like they can really accomplish anything when Bettman can't be there. And I am sure talking to a bunch of nosey politicians with nothing better to do about steroids is not exactly where he wanted to be either.

The last meeting will be more telling.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

My thing is this. Both sides know that the damage done to the game is probably irrepairable. My thinking would be that you would at least hold marathon sessions to get a deal done to stop the damage. I've been indirectly involved in union negotiations (my mom and dad were both union reps) and when deals needed to get done, they had non-stop bargaining agreement meetings until a deal was done.

The fact that neither side is doing anything like this leaves me scratching my head. Great, you're discussing revenue. What about getting a basic framework in place and working from there? The negotiations just seem to be spinning around in circles and are going nowhere. It's kind of frustrating that both sides have crapped away a season and billions in revenue only to be stuck on negotiating revenue.

There doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency from either side and I guess that's what the most infuriating part is. They seem rather non-chalant and just don't care what happens. And that bugs me.

How is it bad news that they are discussing revenues? Revenues are probably the most disputed thing in this entire lockout, between the two sides at least. The PA and owners need to trust each other that the revenue numbers are fair, so it definetly has to be negotiated before a deal is made anyway...so what's wrong with them talking about it now?

And how do you know a deal isn't in place? How do you know the two sides haven't agreed to everything but the linked floor and cap, in which case disputed revenues have to be settled first. How do you know there isn't a deal on the table that the PA likes, but first they need to see what x%-x% would represent in a normal year?

 

[txomisc]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=125221

Both sides are getting idiotic now. 4 and half hours to discuss revenue? Come on, get a damn deal worked out. With the threat of even more revenue being lost, do they not understand the importance of having a deal done ASAP? Obviously not.

I don't get it anymore. Both sides are totally moronic. It's clear from these meeting that they have no interest in getting a deal done. If they wanted one, they wouldn't be quitting the meetings after 4 hours and change.

I'm starting to hope now that the NHL just doesn't come back. How sad this whole sorry sordid thing has become.....

It is absolutely pathetic that revenue has not been discussed up until now. The league has screwed up but the PAs constant refusal to even get into the revenue discussion until now is atrocious.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

It is absolutely pathetic that revenue has not been discussed up until now. The league has screwed up but the PAs constant refusal to even get into the revenue discussion until now is atrocious.

They needed to agree to linkage first, otherwise there is no reason to even argue about revenues. If there is simply a cap, or even no cap, then there is NO relation between spending and reported revenues. Reported revenues might be true or might not, but either way if they are there the owners will spend them. Now that the PA has agreed to linkage there IS a relation between spending and reported revenues.

 

[txomisc]

They needed to agree to linkage first, otherwise there is no reason to even argue about revenues. If there is simply a cap, or even no cap, then there is NO relation between spending and reported revenues. Reported revenues might be true or might not, but either way if they are there the owners will spend them. Now that the PA has agreed to linkage there IS a relation between spending and reported revenues.

They did not need to agree to linkage first. With all the crap meetings they had, there certainly could and should have been one about revenue. Perhaps that meeting would have been a huge benefit to the process.

 

[Munchausen]

They needed to agree to linkage first, otherwise there is no reason to even argue about revenues. If there is simply a cap, or even no cap, then there is NO relation between spending and reported revenues. Reported revenues might be true or might not, but either way if they are there the owners will spend them. Now that the PA has agreed to linkage there IS a relation between spending and reported revenues.

That's not quite accurate. The PA needed to know the numbers to agree on or propose any kind of deal. If not, it's just a series of self-proclaimed fair offers that have no link with the economical reality of the league. How can the PA accept or refuse a cap set at x number when they don't even know if the league can afford more or less than that? Revenue talks are much needed to move this thing forward, but they were at any step of the process.

 

[Phanuthier*]

I think revenue is very important, especially if they tie salaries to revenues. But I agree, this is getting boring and stupid.

I'm just sitting back waiting for an answere. I don't care about the transiant banter.

 

[tinyzombies]

Yeah, but no matter what angle they begin negotiations at, they are still p***yfooting around the same set idea of money it seems. This is the second real framework they've agreed to hold discussions with and there's nothing substantial about anything they've said in public so far. They could come to an agreement on revenue, then flush it down the toilet with UFA eligibility or several other factors. Both sides are still playing very hard ball.

 

[onetimer]

What both sides need to realize is the lack of press on this in the US. They can posture all they want but with each week less and less people care. If its not signed by middle of summer then look out. People get used to not going to hockey games are not going to care anymore.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

What both sides need to realize is the lack of press on this in the US. They can posture all they want but with each week less and less people care. If its not signed by middle of summer then look out. People get used to not going to hockey games are not going to care anymore.

I agree, i think need to stop meeting in cities like Toronto and NYC and meet in places like Huntsville Alabama to get a real idea on where the NHL ranks. See the problem is both sides overrate their importance in the sports world. Maybe a little dose of reality would do some good. Hopefully when Bettman sits down before congress they'll ask him "who are you"?

 

[BLONG7]

I hope Gary and Bob are both very embarassed by this whole process...

 

[WC Handy*]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=125221

Both sides are getting idiotic now. 4 and half hours to discuss revenue? Come on, get a damn deal worked out. With the threat of even more revenue being lost, do they not understand the importance of having a deal done ASAP? Obviously not.

I don't get it anymore. Both sides are totally moronic. It's clear from these meeting that they have no interest in getting a deal done. If they wanted one, they wouldn't be quitting the meetings after 4 hours and change.

I'm starting to hope now that the NHL just doesn't come back. How sad this whole sorry sordid thing has become.....

What's moronic about doing something that MUST be done before anyone signs their name to a new CBA?

This thread makes it pretty clear that many poeple have no clue what has to be done in CBA negotiations...

 

[LordHelmet]

I'd like to see 8 or 10 hour sessions too, but it's not like they're just meeting between noon and 4 and not doing anything else.

The amount of time that they spend in a room together isn't all that important. Both sides probably started preparing around 7 am and discussed the results of the meeting until well into the night. Yeah, they're only face to face for a few hours, but you can bet that there's much, much more happening when the sides are apart.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

Personally I think it is a good thing that we are hearing about the focus on one thing, ancd that being revenue. To me that means the structure of the deal is done and they are identifying the key components of what the biggest sticking point will likely be, what is revenue. It sounds like the players are now on the page of linkage, the amount has been agreed to, and now the sides are hammering out what exactly revenues is. I think this is a very big positive.

 

[Rscorpio]

To Cloned:




dude , that chics is hot

 

[HF2002]

What both sides need to realize is the lack of press on this in the US. They can posture all they want but with each week less and less people care. If its not signed by middle of summer then look out. People get used to not going to hockey games are not going to care anymore.

The NHL's anonimity in the US is the only saving grace in all of this. People not knowing how ridiculous this whole thing has been is a good thing.

 

[HF2002]

How's this for an indication of the NHL's status:

- on CNN, the host (Daryn Kagan) just reported that the commissioners of the NFL, MLB, NBA and... Major League Soccer are testifying before Congress today.

That sums it up right there! Ouch.

 

[chiavsfan]

If it makes you feel better, I work on the radio here in Illinois and the news-wire did include the NHL in their steroid piece