Player Discussion Third Line Center Position

[Mr Positive]

Gaetan Haas Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

honestly we may go with him if the team is looking to cut salary. It's the kind of move that might even be for the best if he takes the role and runs with it.

I think this is the year where players who did really well with a limited role get a longer look. Jones comes to mind, but also Haas and Nygard. With more minutes, I think Haas could improve his faceoff percentage. Maybe he can train for it too. At 42% he's not terrible, but not good either.

Those three are also strong skaters, and these playoffs showed that we need quicker decision making and skating

 

[bone]

honestly we may go with him if the team is looking to cut salary. It's the kind of move that might even be for the best if he takes the role and runs with it.

I think this is the year where players who did really well with a limited role get a longer look. Jones comes to mind, but also Haas and Nygard. With more minutes, I think Haas could improve his faceoff percentage. Maybe he can train for it too. At 42% he's not terrible, but not good either.

Those three are also strong skaters, and these playoffs showed that we need quicker decision making and skating

42% is pretty bad. For players with more than 400 faceoffs this season, he was 118th out of 123. Two of the guys below him were 20 years old or younger and will likely improve.

All that said, the difference between him jumping to 49% (to put him right around middle of the pack) would be winning one more faceoff win every second game. If he looks at it that way and bears down to win at least one more faceoff every 2nd game (particularly in D-zone), he may become a reasonable option.

 

[Fourier]

It is possible we could see some unexpected buyouts this year as well. For example, a guy like Wennberg is owed just under $16M over the next three years with a cap hit of $4.9M. They can try to trade him but he is costly both in terms of salary and on the cap. But at his age they can buy him out at 1/3 his remaining salary which would save them $10.7M in real money and would also save $4.4M on the cap. He is a guy that I think if you could get cheaply after a buyout as a #3C would be a very good risk.

 

[CycloneSweep]

It is possible we could see some unexpected buyouts this year as well. For example, a guy like Wennberg is owed just under $16M over the next three years with a cap hit of $4.9M. They can try to trade him but he is costly both in terms of salary and on the cap. But at his age they can buy him out at 1/3 his remaining salary which would save them $10.7M in real money and would also save $4.4M on the cap. He is a guy that I think if you could get cheaply after a buyout as a #3C would be a very good risk.

I would definitely like Wennberg here for cheap if he was bought out,.

 

[Fourier]

I would definitely like Wennberg here for cheap if he was bought out,.

Now have no idea how likely this is but it was just an example of a name that could come up that right now seems not to be a realistic option.

 

[BudBundy]

Tipp has a history of using his 4th line as his defensive minute eater, so there's no need to target a big, physical old school match-up #3C.

You just need someone that can play between guys like AA and Chiasson and contribute against other teams' third lines with soft zone starts.


Most teams just have aging overpaid former #2Cs or young talented rookies/sophomores playing that role now, so if Holland swings and misses on the shallow UFA crop, he might have to get creative.

On the road, the opposition often won’t let your shutdown 4th line against their top line so your 3C better be able to handle it.

 

[bucks_oil]

To me, a 3rd line C has the skating and size and defensive awareness to go head to head with the opposition top line C and battle them to a draw. Ideally that includes the ability to win a key draw and PK. He must also be able to put up at least 20 goals and 40 points, and have enough skill to play 2C if there is an injury. He doesn’t have to be extremely skilled, just capable. To me, a good 3rd line C is more important than any winger on your team. Before I get piled on, yes I know a lot of 3Cs in the league don’t check all these boxes.

... see prime Todd Marchant
... see prime Jarret Stoll on a team with a true #1C

You need a guy who thinks the game well in both directions and has the physical attributes (size or speed) to keep the very best in check. Their offense can be purely a factor of knowing how to distribute the puck and/or cycle/crash/bang effectively.

On this team, the most important factor is the defensive side of the puck since we (must admit it by now) we aren't winning the power vs power matchups at 5v5.

A true 3C would push Sheahan down to 4C checking and we'd likely become one of the best 5v5 teams at home as we'd have two lines that can check opposing centers and two absolutely elite offensive C's to destroy all but the opponents best two-way line.

 

[bone]

I just went looking for right handed centres that are free agents this year to see if any of them fit the bill of a third line centre can win a faceoff and contribute to a penalty kill. Wow is that a small market and there isn't really a fit in free agency. Coaching up Haas looks like a much better idea than I would have expected or we have to look at lefties.

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NHL.com Stats

 

[KahunWOW]

Just get Dominik Kahun. Problem solved.

 

[replacement]

Luke Glendening is a reliable center, versatile (can play all forward positions), great on draws, has a solid motor, shoots right, and plays a smart game. He's on the last year of his contract with Detroit next year. Detroit might be interested in prospects, and they may also be open to taking on salary.

 

[BudBundy]

Luke Glendening is a reliable center, versatile (can play all forward positions), great on draws, has a solid motor, shoots right, and plays a smart game. He's on the last year of his contract with Detroit next year. Detroit might be interested in prospects, and they may also be open to taking on salary.

He is a fourth line Center at absolute best

 

[joestevens29]

Luke Glendening is a reliable center, versatile (can play all forward positions), great on draws, has a solid motor, shoots right, and plays a smart game. He's on the last year of his contract with Detroit next year. Detroit might be interested in prospects, and they may also be open to taking on salary.

He is a fourth line Center at absolute best

Seems like another Riley Sheahan type guy. Decent enough player, but probably not someone that should play much 3C

 

[OfCorsiDid]

I don't think they would be willing to do that high. They aren't going to find a better 3c for under 3mill so at the end of the day they probably spend more than Wennbergs $4.9 mill overall for that position, might as well keep Wennberg.

My thought is that they might wanna move on due to Foudy coming up quickly.

But yeah I can see this too. Oh well. Jarmo is a little unpredictable so maybe we’ll get lucky.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

It is possible we could see some unexpected buyouts this year as well. For example, a guy like Wennberg is owed just under $16M over the next three years with a cap hit of $4.9M. They can try to trade him but he is costly both in terms of salary and on the cap. But at his age they can buy him out at 1/3 his remaining salary which would save them $10.7M in real money and would also save $4.4M on the cap. He is a guy that I think if you could get cheaply after a buyout as a #3C would be a very good risk.

I’d love to see that happen (as I’ve mentioned before, I like Wennberg) but I cannot see CBJ willing to add another buyout to their cap. As @CycloneSweep mentioned they’d need to spend 3.5 million for a comparable 3C. Add in his buy out cost and you’re basically in the same place in terms of cap space.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Luke Glendening is a reliable center, versatile (can play all forward positions), great on draws, has a solid motor, shoots right, and plays a smart game. He's on the last year of his contract with Detroit next year. Detroit might be interested in prospects, and they may also be open to taking on salary.

Glendenning = Sheahan

Haas > Glendenning

 

[OfCorsiDid]

... see prime Todd Marchant
... see prime Jarret Stoll on a team with a true #1C

You need a guy who thinks the game well in both directions and has the physical attributes (size or speed) to keep the very best in check. Their offense can be purely a factor of knowing how to distribute the puck and/or cycle/crash/bang effectively.

On this team, the most important factor is the defensive side of the puck since we (must admit it by now) we aren't winning the power vs power matchups at 5v5.

A true 3C would push Sheahan down to 4C checking and we'd likely become one of the best 5v5 teams at home as we'd have two lines that can check opposing centers and two absolutely elite offensive C's to destroy all but the opponents best two-way line.

Why would you re-sign Sheahan? He was an absolute nothing burger this year.

Haas is better than him.

 

[Fourier]

On the road, the opposition often won’t let your shutdown 4th line against their top line so your 3C better be able to handle it.

IS this really what happens these days. It seems to me most teams play top two lines vs top two lines and then bottom two vs bottom two with the fourth line often going against the oppositions fourth line.

 

[McDNicks17]

On the road, the opposition often won’t let your shutdown 4th line against their top line so your 3C better be able to handle it.

Most teams match power vs power nowadays. Top6 vs top6. That’s why the majority of third lines are just third scoring lines.

Tipp doesn’t really use the 4th line as a shutdown line either. They just eat defensive zone draws.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

we need a Mike Peca is his prime

 

[Panda Bear]

The ideal 3C has:

• a skillset that allows his on-ice goal share to be 50% or better

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

From what I've reading through our threads. One of the things that seems to constantly brought up to get this offseason, is getting a 3rd line Center.

I wanted to get more indepth with the position.

So I wanted to ask some questions, and hoping some of you can elaborate more on detail on the position, especially for those that used to coach or played organized Hockey.

• What are the essential skills for a 3rd line center?

Score 30 points.

• What are the main duties centering the third line?

Outscore the opposition or atleast keep the goal differential close.

• How important is third line center to the team as a whole?

On a Tippett coached team it's less important than on most teams.

• What makes a third line center elite?

The margin they outscore the opposition by.

• Who would you consider elite 3rd line centers in the game today?

Basically anyone who is a 3rd line center, but is arguably good enough for a 2C role.

• Is there an potential elite 3rd line center in the 1st round 2020 draft?

Fishing for elite 3rd line center with 1st round picks is typically a poor drafting philosophy/strategy. Elite fully developed 3rd line centers rarely go for more than a 1st round pick meaning they essentially have to turn out to hit the break even point asset value wise.

I put some answers in bold.

Traditional 3C's are less common these days, it seems a lot of 3rd lines are more geared towards outscoring the opposition these days and the old 3rd line (shutdown line) role can be covered by ultra defensive 4th lines, which can be a collection of defensive specialists and PK guys. Tippett is one of the coaches that pretty heavily leans into having pure shutdown lines and there are some arguments that it is a more efficient use of resources; since the premium on solid shutdown 4th liners is comparatively modest in contrast to 3rd liners who share a similar defensive competency on top of the 30 or so points they contribute.

 

[Samus44]

I’d love to see that happen (as I’ve mentioned before, I like Wennberg) but I cannot see CBJ willing to add another buyout to their cap. As @CycloneSweep mentioned they’d need to spend 3.5 million for a comparable 3C. Add in his buy out cost and you’re basically in the same place in terms of cap space.

With Covid reducing income for teams it's very plausible that real money, not cap, is a bigger concern for clubs like Columbus. The salary cap isn't the only thing that's going to cause a salary crunch, real dollars will too.

 

[Samus44]

Most teams match power vs power nowadays. Top6 vs top6. That’s why the majority of third lines are just third scoring lines.

Tipp doesn’t really use the 4th line as a shutdown line either. They just eat defensive zone draws.

That's a fair way of framing it. I will say there were certainly some shutdown qualities to the line however as he used the 4th line in defensive situations, like holding a lead, and wasn't worried about who they were out about when taking those d-zone draws. But yeah power vs power was largely his MO.

 

[Samus44]

Why would you re-sign Sheahan? He was an absolute nothing burger this year.

Haas is better than him.

He did a job, and he did it well. The Oilers had an elite PK and he was used heavily for dzone faceoffs and in defensive situations. Certainly a little more offensive pop would be useful but his usage allowed the big guns more offensive opportunities, and that shouldn't be ignored. I'd be happy to have him back as Kharia nor Haas have the faceoff acumen to be sure fire replacements. In fact i'd bring all 3 back to battle for ice time and for adequate center and PK depth. It's about roles and having the appropriate players to fill them.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

My ideal 3C is someone who is a strong skater and has terrific awareness/positioning defensively while also being able to create offence against other teams bottom 6. I’m not saying he has to be an offensive dynamo but you need at least 30 pts a year out of him. He has to be one of your better penalty killers and someone you’re comfortable putting a young guy next to knowing that he’s got enough skill to produce with a young player but enough awareness that he can cover for a young guys mistakes. I’d like him also to be able to play match up situations, like others have said the days of a shut down line don’t really exist Anymore but I do feel there are still situations where it’s a benefit to have a strong defensive C who can play a shutdown role against a dangerous player. Finally a guy who’s good on face offs, doesn’t have to be a 54-55% guy but he’s effective on the really important draws. Draisaitl has become that for us as a lefty so a right shot 3C would be ideal but with the criteria I’ve laid out you can’t be too choosy.


One guy I really like is Calle Jarnkrok, great skater, great defensively and on the PK. Has consistent hovered around that 30 pt mark, right shot and great on the draw, he’s versatile can play any fwd position up and down the lineup. Unfortunately he had an above average year by his standards and showed a little more and he’s got 3 years left on a very reasonable 2M AAV so I think Preds hold onto him while letting guys like Granlund and Smith walk.