The Winter Classic as the Final for an NHL In Season tournament?

coolboarder

Registered User
Mar 4, 2010
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Winter Classic sounds an interesting idea for the in-season tournament. Also I would not mind quarterfinals and semi-finals to be played outdoor during the post Christmas and New Year's Day week. To earn those privilege, you would have to win the group stage to get in to earn those privilege . Group stage can end in early December to prepare for the outdoor rink at the top seed. Those that win the final get extra bonus points to give them the boost even it's 83rd games. This would be incentive for end of season as well, a big gain for home ice even they're even in term of points.
And rather than call it NHL Cup, but call it Winter Classic Cup. This will be more recognized as an outdoor tournament for that week as a part of my idea.
So 35,000 people are going to show up in a baseball stadium paying super premium prices for a bad view of a game to watch two teams that may have no connection to the market they are playing in?
Not necessarily, 4 of those hosts that have built their own outdoor rink will be the host depending if they wins their games can advance and still host for semi-finals and the final.
 

Spydey629

Registered User
Jan 28, 2005
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Carlisle, PA
And rather than call it NHL Cup, but call it Winter Classic Cup. This will be more recognized as an outdoor tournament for that week as a part of my idea.

Not necessarily, 4 of those hosts that have built their own outdoor rink will be the host depending if they wins their games can advance and still host for semi-finals and the final.

Good Lord. The expense and logistics of this aren’t worth the effort. As it stands, the NHL only has one refrigeration truck for outdoor rinks (they may have two now).

At best you are doubling that expense off the top. Secondly, availability for the facilities - especially stadiums - is tied up months in advance. I doubt the league would want to stage a marquee event in an abandoned mall parking lot at the last minute. Especially when the rinks need at least a week to get built.

Thank God Gary shot down the concept already. A regular rotation of Olympics and World Cups is the White Whale to chase right now, not a gimmick tried by a different league that may not even exist in five years.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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Jun 22, 2023
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In season tournament final compared to the Stanley Cup is like the World Cup of Hockey compared to the Olympics. What I mean is, even for it being a "Special event", nobody cares enough to draw 40-60K people to a neutral site. If the Red Wings played the Stanley Cup Finals at a neutral site, I'd be willing to spend money on a flight/hotels/ticket. If the Red Wings played in the In-Season Tournament Final, it's cool, and I'll watch on TV, but I really don't care to spend money to go there.

In season tournament might be a good idea for TV viewership (It seemed immensely successful for the NBA) but it wont do anything for gate revenue, beyond maybe a slight local bump.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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How many people are legitimately change their holiday plans to travel to see their team in another city on short notice? Will it sell more tickets with the "prestige" of an in-season tournament finals or if it was just a home game for that market. It sounds like an economic and logistical disaster waiting to happen. It'd be way more profitable to have the Leafs playing a home game, than 2 neutral opponents, and expecting season ticket holders to pay out for that game is asking a lot.

Toronto probably has the best chance of selling this event out at the margins the NHL would want, and I still think it's a tough sell to get a ton of people to see two neutral teams (someone like MTL would probably draw, Sabres may bring in fans, etc) at anything approaching what they could charge for a Leafs game. And, it has a serious chance of killing the "prestige" of this so called tournament by having horrific attendence.
 

awfulwaffle

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Jun 20, 2011
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And rather than call it NHL Cup, but call it Winter Classic Cup. This will be more recognized as an outdoor tournament for that week as a part of my idea.

Not necessarily, 4 of those hosts that have built their own outdoor rink will be the host depending if they wins their games can advance and still host for semi-finals and the final.

So it's a tournament for cold weather cities that can actually host an outdoor game, and not a tournament for all teams to possibly partake in?
 

Spydey629

Registered User
Jan 28, 2005
952
390
Carlisle, PA
How many people are legitimately change their holiday plans to travel to see their team in another city on short notice? Will it sell more tickets with the "prestige" of an in-season tournament finals or if it was just a home game for that market. It sounds like an economic and logistical disaster waiting to happen. It'd be way more profitable to have the Leafs playing a home game, than 2 neutral opponents, and expecting season ticket holders to pay out for that game is asking a lot.

Toronto probably has the best chance of selling this event out at the margins the NHL would want, and I still think it's a tough sell to get a ton of people to see two neutral teams (someone like MTL would probably draw, Sabres may bring in fans, etc) at anything approaching what they could charge for a Leafs game. And, it has a serious chance of killing the "prestige" of this so called tournament by having horrific attendence.

To answer that question, College Football fans. But that group has been conditioned for over 100 years to see how their team ends the season, then to make plans to travel to see a warm weather location when their team/school plays their bowl game around New Years Day.

This is definitely not that.
 

coolboarder

Registered User
Mar 4, 2010
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Maryland
Good Lord. The expense and logistics of this aren’t worth the effort. As it stands, the NHL only has one refrigeration truck for outdoor rinks (they may have two now).

At best you are doubling that expense off the top. Secondly, availability for the facilities - especially stadiums - is tied up months in advance. I doubt the league would want to stage a marquee event in an abandoned mall parking lot at the last minute. Especially when the rinks need at least a week to get built.

Thank God Gary shot down the concept already. A regular rotation of Olympics and World Cups is the White Whale to chase right now, not a gimmick tried by a different league that may not even exist in five years.
Like I said, it can be set in advance. If you end the group stage by late November, it gives them enough time to find a venue where it might be suitable for outdoor and sell tickets one month in advance. Sometimes people will change their plan at a last minute if it's once in a lifetime opportunity arise. If they set a predeterminate open date that must be filled in, that would be three dates between Christmas Day to New Year's Day. It can be December 22 or 23 for a QF game, giving them time to set up a semi-final outdoor rink on December 27 or 28th and the final on January 1st.

In-season tournament can be good if it's outdoor spectacle. If it's indoor all the way through, it is same as a regular season game that is not worth our time having in-season tournament all indoor but if you add outdoor element to it, it can be huge and everyone will want to participate in that and every player would be up for it since it's outdoor tournament. You start the group stage indoor and players will go hard for an chance to play outdoor, final 8.

Now, if you said that they may have two refrigeration trucks, they can always buy more and is worth the investment long-term. Once a QF is done, the availability of truck may free up and can set it up at another city (third seed) that would take a few days to set it up and may not be used at all if there is no upset but if there is an upset in tournament bracket, it is all ready to go and sell tickets. It could easily be sold out if there is a final. 4th seed in a SF has no chance of hosting at the championship game anyways.

Most cities have football or baseball venues and even in college football stadium on campus that is not in use as it's end of the season and the NHL might do diligence inquire them of the hosting possibilities without any setback beforehand without guarantee and commitment after NFL release their schedule There will be no issue in Canada since CFL season is over at that date.

Gary may shot down this concept but has he thought of outdoor element to in-season tournament. I'm sure he will jump to this opportunity. If it's all indoor in-season tournament, he has the right to shoot it down. I know I would shoot it down.
 
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IU Hawks fan

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In season tournament final compared to the Stanley Cup is like the World Cup of Hockey compared to the Olympics. What I mean is, even for it being a "Special event", nobody cares enough to draw 40-60K people to a neutral site. If the Red Wings played the Stanley Cup Finals at a neutral site, I'd be willing to spend money on a flight/hotels/ticket. If the Red Wings played in the In-Season Tournament Final, it's cool, and I'll watch on TV, but I really don't care to spend money to go there.

In season tournament might be a good idea for TV viewership (It seemed immensely successful for the NBA) but it wont do anything for gate revenue, beyond maybe a slight local bump.

Now we're talking! 1st 2 games of the Cup Final in Vegas, what a boon it'll be with 60k+ for each game at Allegiant.
 

SeanConn

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Apr 25, 2018
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Now we're talking! 1st 2 games of the Cup Final in Vegas, what a boon it'll be with 60k+ for each game at Allegiant.

sarcastic or serious? Cuz it's one thing for outdoor games and Winter Classic to be the semi finals and NHL in season tournament final. Game one and two of the Stanley Cup final would be complete heresy. Possible sub optimal ice conditions for 2 regular season games and 1 non regular game in the final at the Winter Classic are not a big deal compared to two games in the Cup Finals.

That's the beauty of an in season tournament... there's only 1 extra game that has to be added onto the schedule. It just makes some regular season games in November and December a little more interesting, while the Winter Classic on January 1st or 2nd will no longer be a regular season game at all. Whether traditionalist fans hate it or not shouldn't matter.. it could help drum up coverage for the NHL in the middle of football season, which is exactly what the NBA In Season Tournament accomplished.
 
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IU Hawks fan

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sarcastic or serious? Cuz it's one thing for outdoor games and Winter Classic to be the semi finals and NHL in season tournament final. Game one and two of the Stanley Cup final would be complete heresy. Possible sub optimal ice conditions for 2 regular season games and 1 non regular game in the final at the Winter Classic are not a big deal compared to two games in the Cup Finals.
I mentioned an indoor stadium. Do your homework next time.
 

JKG33

Leafs & Kings
Oct 31, 2009
6,230
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Winnipeg
With the IST, you still played in a basketball venue even if it wasn't someone's home arena. It looked like a basketball court, it felt like a basketball court, it played like a normal basketball court. It wasn't subject to weird conditions that could skew how a basketball game was played and how players perceived the basket.

The Winter Classic? It's always a gimmick feel; it's not in an arena, it doesn't feel like an arena. For an IST of Hockey where players are playing for however much money, at least make it look and feel like an arena instead of having it subject to whatever weather conditions might occur.
You say that as if an IST isn't the biggest gimmick of them all.

A winter classic wouldn't work because nobody will wanna watch 2 random teams instead of their home team.

But a gimmicky outdoor game would be the perfect end to a meaningless fake tournament, that's for sure
 

Bucky_Hoyt

Registered User
Dec 11, 2005
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Singapore
Seems interesting on paper but not practical. The NHL probably isn't radical enough to try things like this and, as we've seen in this thread, fans are too divided.

Personally, I think the all-star game is pointless and an actual World Cup or Olympics tourney should happen around that time.

Year 1 OLY qualifying
Year 2 OLY
Year 3 WC quals
Year 4 WC

and repeat.

2-weeks every season. Gives 90% of players a rest at that time. Showcases stars internationally and probably generates loads of money.

Start the season a week earlier and end it a week later if need be.

Association football has regional club and national team championships qualifying or tourneys throughout the season. No one is clamouring for a Premier League All-star game but they LOVE Champions League, Euros and the World Cup.

If the NHL 'has' to do an all-star type thing, combine it with the draft and NHL awards a week after the Cup Finals.
 

IU Hawks fan

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Not exactly what I’d call an indoor arena. And again, it’s one thing for the Winter Cup to be held at a neutral site football or baseball arena… but the Stanley Cup Finals?

Blasphemy!
It'd be a pure money grab, obviously, but it's an indoor football stadium. It'd be no different than the Final Four, 65k people traveling to watch games in a venue that's too big for it.
 

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