The Transformers thread (shows, comics, toys, all things TF)

Sharpshooter

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Just noticing? :laugh:

Think of it: most of the icons of our generation are now 50+. Many are already dead. Most of the toylines of our generation are being brought back...for the third or fourth or fifth time. :wally:

Still, we grew up in one of the best periods of all time. 80's may have sucked for adults, but it rocked for kids. :yo:
 

The Nemesis

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on that note, why the hell have they changed Slag's name to Slug in all modern incarnations?

For that matter, Insecticons Bombshell and Shrapnel apparently are now Hardshell and Sharpshot. What the hell? And Trailblazer's called Trailcutter now.



The primary reason a lot of names are changed is trademarks. In the 90s Hasbro figured the brand was dying and there probably wouldn't be much of a future, so they let the trademarks lapse on a lot of characters and other companies snapped up those words/names (for example, there was a period in the late 90s/early 00s when "Jazz" as a trademarked name belonged to WWF because they had one of their lady wrestlers/valets using that name. Eventually she was gone, they gave up the trademark, and I think Hasbro got it back) Also I believe that trademark law may have been altered somewhat making it harder to trademark simple or commonplace words. This is why "officially" on some toy packages you'll see characters named as "<faction> <name>" where the packaging doesn't clearly delineate between the faction listing and the character name like it does for others. Like if on the package for Optimus it says "Autobot" on a yellow box and "Optimus Prime" on a black box, Jazz will instead have "Autobot Jazz" all on the black so that it strongly implies the character's full name is "Autobot Jazz" and not just "Jazz".


Basically, the tl;dr is to blame the suits. Trademark law is pissy and pedantic and really annoying.


For Slag specifically, it's a global branding thing. They want to keep the names as standardized as they can across different countries. So while Japan and the west still have differences (Jazz is Meister in Japan, Optimus Prime is "Convoy", Kup is something like "Cha" or "Chappu" or something weird like that.), the english speaking world should have the same names, as should other languages where the character's name isn't supposed to be a recognizable regular word (like, say, Shockwave. Who, incidentally has been renamed "Shockblast" numerous times for reasons described in the earlier paragraph :laugh:)


Anyway the specific on Slag is that in England, the word "slag" is primarily known as a slang term for a prostitute and less so for the usually accepted definition of the welding byproduct. Not wanting a character who basically has his name be the equivalent of "hooker" or any number of other words I can't type without HF's filter triggering, they tweaked it to "Slug". Or just outright stole Snarl's name, making the Triceratops "Snarl" and the Stegosaurus an afterthought.




If you want some extra reading, the TF wiki has a great page on Trademark issues within the brand and another page that lists all the times that trademark reasons have forced them to get creative with character name suffixes to skirt around trademark laws


http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Trademark


http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Trademark/Altered_names

Just noticing? :laugh:

Think of it: most of the icons of our generation are now 50+. Many are already dead. Most of the toylines of our generation are being brought back...for the third or fourth or fifth time. :wally:



A good chunk of the TF voice cast is no longer with us.


Off the top of my head, and supplemented by the TF wiki, I can remember:



  • Chris Latta (Starscream, Wheeljack, Sparkplug Witwicky)
  • Don Messick (Ratchet, Gears, one of the constructicons)
  • Scatman Crothers (Jazz)
  • Casey Kasem (Cliffjumper, Bluestreak, Teletraan-1)
  • Roger C. Carmel (Cyclonus, most appearances of Unicron post-movie, Motormaster. He was also Harry Mudd on the original Star Trek)
  • Regis Cordic (Menasor, various Quintessons in the movie & season 3)
  • Ed Gilbert (Blitzwing, Superion, Thrust)
  • Stan Jones (Scourge, assorted minor characters from "The Rebirth" series-ending episodes)
  • Philip Clarke (Dead End, Tantrum, Abdul Fakkadi (aka the reason Casey Kasem quit the show))
  • Lionel Stander (Kup in the movie only)
  • Robert Stack (Ultra Magnus in the movie only)
  • Orson Welles (Unicron in the movie only)
Very few of the remaining TF voice actors are south of 65ish. Corey Burton (Spike, Shockwave, Sunstreaker, Brawn, and a boatload of one-offs) is 55 and I believe the next youngest is a tie between Dan Gilvezan (Bumblebee) and Gregg Berger (Grimlock) who are both 63.


and before someone asks, yes I did switch my avatar based on participation in this thread. It seemed appropriate :laugh:
 
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Baby Punisher

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surprised no mention of the Predacons that were brought on later that formed Predaking lol
I had a lot of the transformers.. my favs were Optimus, Ultra Magnus, and Omega Supreme

Back in what I refer to as "the day" which was 1981-82 I was given a blue version of Omega supreme. However I did not know at the time the potential that it could have. It remained as tank on a track with a rocket attached to to it. Even though it was motorized and lit up It was quite boring and I always wondered why the back of the turret had a face in the window. I lost interest in it. Don't know what became of it.
 

Acadmus

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Still, we grew up in one of the best periods of all time. 80's may have sucked for adults, but it rocked for kids. :yo:

Wasn't bad for all adults, either - after '84 the economy took off and life got a lot better for a lot of people. Adult TV was better and with the rise of computer technology came a lot of new adult toys, too ;)

Then again, I suppose it depended which economy you came from. Japan and the U.S. did the best that decade, with Germany close behind.
 

Acadmus

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surprised no mention of the Predacons that were brought on later that formed Predaking lol
I had a lot of the transformers.. my favs were Optimus, Ultra Magnus, and Omega Supreme

I had a couple - the Panther and Lion I think. I still have one of his feet (not the Transformer that formed the leg, just the foot that attached to him :laugh:).
 

Guardian17

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Back in what I refer to as "the day" which was 1981-82 I was given a blue version of Omega supreme. However I did not know at the time the potential that it could have. It remained as tank on a track with a rocket attached to to it. Even though it was motorized and lit up It was quite boring and I always wondered why the back of the turret had a face in the window. I lost interest in it. Don't know what became of it.


Couuld this have been a "Guardian robot" like in the G1 Episode : War Dawn which was a blue and white colored Omega Supreme?

If so, it would have been a rare collectible.


 

Baby Punisher

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Couuld this have been a "Guardian robot" like in the G1 Episode : War Dawn which was a blue and white colored Omega Supreme?

If so, it would have been a rare collectible.




It looked similar to this one. Not as nice.

http://www.snstoyshop.com/review/product/list/id/320/category/21/

You have to remember when I had this item it was at least 2 years before Hasbro hit it big with the Transformers toy line and cartoon. So I would assume it was part of the Dioclone line or some other wacky toy line. Just thinking back on some of the details I recall it had many clear/smoke tinted parts.
 

The Nemesis

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Couuld this have been a "Guardian robot" like in the G1 Episode : War Dawn which was a blue and white colored Omega Supreme?

If so, it would have been a rare collectible.





Guardian Robot was never released as a toy in the 80s. In recent years an online retailer that's specialized in some of the collector stuff for Transformers did a repaint re-release of Omega that they called Guardian Robot, but the only way you could get an Omega Supreme type toy in the TF line in the 80s was Omega himsefl.

Interestingly, licensing issues prevented Takara from releasing the Omega Supreme toy in Japan during the original series run. So Japan never got an Omega Supreme toy at the time.


As for Baby Punisher, this is where the "original" Omega Supreme toy came from:

It was made by a company called Toybox and called Super Change Robo Mechabot-1 (gotta love Japan's crazy blunt/vague naming conventions :laugh:)

Here's a pic of one next to a TF-branded Omega Supreme:

Mechabot1_vs_Omega_Supreme.jpg
 

Supermassive

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I always wondered why the Constructacons consisted of six robots while the other conbiners consisted of five robots.

Thanks for the explanation!

I watched "Scramble City" on you tube, it seemed to end in a cliffhanger.




Costco had Metroplex for $80 last year but I wasn't allowed to buy it, haha. Plus, he always seemed to get his ass kicked by Trypticon or whoever.

My son found a Jetfire on the wrong shelf at Toys R Us (lucky find), so he has his favorite Transformer. There was also a Starscream for $110 - big giant sucker. I tried to sell the wife on it - no dice. Nice to see G1 figures hitting stores en masse, though.
 

ProstheticConscience

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Huffer was my first Transformer. Prowl was, if I recall, my second. They remain two of my favorites.

I had a ton of them I regret not keeping - the only ones left are mostly damaged. The original Optimus Prime (still have the trailer and Roller, but can't find Prime's hands most of the time), Skywarp (missing pieces), Mirage (now broken in 3 pieces by wife and son), Jazz (original design, but it was a reissue available from mailing in proofs of purchase from some cereal boxes), Sideswipe (some loose joints, but otherwise ok), and a few mini Autobots/Decepticon cassettes: Huffer still, Bumblebee, Cliffjumper, Powerglide, Brawn, Warpath, Ravage, Laserbeak (now broken by my son), Rumble and Frenzy. Then there's the prize of what remains of my once much larger collection, missing a few extraneous parts: Trypticon. He still walks even :laugh:

Oh, and I still have Air Raid from the Aerialbots, too.

Had Cliffjumper (I think), had Lazerbeak, Rumble and Frenzy (Ever notice how the show always mixed them up? And the show didn't have Frenzy? Or that it didn't make any sense that a cassette tape would be able to cause earthquakes?)...had one of the decepticon army bots, but can't remember which one. Didn't have Mirage but always wanted it, didn't have Sideswipe or his "twin" Sunstreaker. Remember that the red Countach was supposed to be nicer, and the yellow Countach was supposed to be ruthless, and they were "twins" although they transformed differently.

damn we're old

Yup. Ask my kid. Better yet, show her this thread. She'd have me committed if I had any money. :laugh:
 

The Nemesis

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Costco had Metroplex for $80 last year but I wasn't allowed to buy it, haha. Plus, he always seemed to get his ass kicked by Trypticon or whoever.

My son found a Jetfire on the wrong shelf at Toys R Us (lucky find), so he has his favorite Transformer. There was also a Starscream for $110 - big giant sucker. I tried to sell the wife on it - no dice. Nice to see G1 figures hitting stores en masse, though.

At $110, the giant Starscream was probably one of the NA releases of the Masterpiece series, like I have pictured a page or 2 back. They're amazing pieces, but not really suitable for kids (because they're big, heavy, super-complicated, and made with collectors in mind instead of kids)

Had Cliffjumper (I think), had Lazerbeak, Rumble and Frenzy (Ever notice how the show always mixed them up? And the show didn't have Frenzy? Or that it didn't make any sense that a cassette tape would be able to cause earthquakes?)...had one of the decepticon army bots, but can't remember which one. Didn't have Mirage but always wanted it, didn't have Sideswipe or his "twin" Sunstreaker. Remember that the red Countach was supposed to be nicer, and the yellow Countach was supposed to be ruthless, and they were "twins" although they transformed differently.

Frenzy and Rumble were both in the cartoon, you just saw Rumblea lot more. There's also the pesky issue of which one is which. The G1 Cartoon had Frenzy as the blue/purple one and Frenzy as the red/black one. But this was actually one of the only places that ID'd them that way. The toys, marvel comics, and pretty much everything else had Rumble as the red/black one and Frenzy as the blue/purple one. In fact, when the G1 cartoon was translated to Japanese, they switched the names up so that they would be correct to the toys.

This is actually a big "thing" in the fandom :laugh:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/FIRRIB

the cartoon also played out Sideswipe and Sunstreaker a little too. neither was "ruthless". Instead Sunstreaker was vain and overly worried about how battle would ruin his finish or scratch his paint job (basically second only to Tracks in terms of egotripping. but Tracks had the advantage of his hilarious snooty Connecticut yuppie accent). and Sideswipe was a smartass braggart jerk :laugh:

Jazz. How poorly we knew ye.



Scatman Crothers was apparently an all-around awesome guy. Some of the G1 voice actors have said that during recording sessions when they could only fit a couple of actors at a time in the booth, everyone else would wait to do their lines in the office lobby and Crothers would bring his guitar and play/sing to pass the time and keep everyone entertained.

Transformers The Movie was the second-to-last role he ever had. :(
 

Baby Punisher

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Guardian Robot was never released as a toy in the 80s. In recent years an online retailer that's specialized in some of the collector stuff for Transformers did a repaint re-release of Omega that they called Guardian Robot, but the only way you could get an Omega Supreme type toy in the TF line in the 80s was Omega himsefl.

Interestingly, licensing issues prevented Takara from releasing the Omega Supreme toy in Japan during the original series run. So Japan never got an Omega Supreme toy at the time.


As for Baby Punisher, this is where the "original" Omega Supreme toy came from:

It was made by a company called Toybox and called Super Change Robo Mechabot-1 (gotta love Japan's crazy blunt/vague naming conventions :laugh:)

Here's a pic of one next to a TF-branded Omega Supreme:

Mechabot1_vs_Omega_Supreme.jpg

I will defer to you when it comes to the inside knowledge of these things. It's sad that my version of OS never made it into Robot mode :(

I've been cleaning out y parents house the past few months getting ready to sell it and I came across a few things that I pretty much forgot I had.

A closet full of Star trek toys, from the late 80's to mid 90's all boxed up. Some have never been open. But the real gem was my Vehicle Voltron from the 80's. From what I can see it's 100% complete. It's the BIG one. It towers over my Lion Voltron. I had two of the 3 robots that made up that freaky looking Voltron that no one had ever heard off. The research I did some years ago suggested they were pretty rare.

As far as Metroplex losing to Trypticon, that was only when Metroplex's transforming cog was stolen and he couldn't fully transform to robot or battle station mode. So Bumble Bee and spike or Spike's Son steal it back from Trip during an epic battle in which old Plex held his own. Once the transforming Cog was back in place inside Metroplex he gave Trypticon an epic beat down and sent him to the bottom of some ocean.
 

MurrayBannerman

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I was born in the early 90's, but my cousin who loved the show made sure I did. Actually rewatched a ton of episodes last year and have em all on my external.
 

ProstheticConscience

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Frenzy and Rumble were both in the cartoon, you just saw Rumblea lot more. There's also the pesky issue of which one is which. The G1 Cartoon had Frenzy as the blue/purple one and Frenzy as the red/black one. But this was actually one of the only places that ID'd them that way. The toys, marvel comics, and pretty much everything else had Rumble as the red/black one and Frenzy as the blue/purple one. In fact, when the G1 cartoon was translated to Japanese, they switched the names up so that they would be correct to the toys.

This is actually a big "thing" in the fandom :laugh:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/FIRRIB

the cartoon also played out Sideswipe and Sunstreaker a little too. neither was "ruthless". Instead Sunstreaker was vain and overly worried about how battle would ruin his finish or scratch his paint job (basically second only to Tracks in terms of egotripping. but Tracks had the advantage of his hilarious snooty Connecticut yuppie accent). and Sideswipe was a smartass braggart jerk :laugh:

Frenzy only showed up in one or two episodes iirc...not going to bother googling it. And I know they made him the red/black one, I had the blue one and that was supposed to be Frenzy. Always annoyed me the cartoon had Rumble like every episode, but not the one I had. :laugh:

And I just remember Sunstreaker was supposed to be "ruthless" from the bio blurb on the packaging. Never had either Countach transformer, but I wanted them. Like all the rest I didn't have, I guess.

As you mentioned Tracks, I remembered one I used to have but can't remember. Blue minivan guy...definitely autobot. Thought it was Tracks, but it's not. Oh well.

Scatman Crothers was apparently an all-around awesome guy. Some of the G1 voice actors have said that during recording sessions when they could only fit a couple of actors at a time in the booth, everyone else would wait to do their lines in the office lobby and Crothers would bring his guitar and play/sing to pass the time and keep everyone entertained.

Transformers The Movie was the second-to-last role he ever had. :(

Yeah, great guy by all accounts. Busy guy, too. Shame how he went out.
 

The Nemesis

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Frenzy only showed up in one or two episodes iirc...not going to bother googling it. And I know they made him the red/black one, I had the blue one and that was supposed to be Frenzy. Always annoyed me the cartoon had Rumble like every episode, but not the one I had. :laugh:

You could've done just like the kids I knew that had frenzy (the blue toy) and pretend he was really Rumble like the show did :laugh:

And I just remember Sunstreaker was supposed to be "ruthless" from the bio blurb on the packaging. Never had either Countach transformer, but I wanted them. Like all the rest I didn't have, I guess.
Yeah, the bio blurbs, which were written by the Marvel Comics staff that also wrote the initial comics (Bob Budiansky primarily) were sometimes a little different than what the cartoon decided on for characterization. They even went so far for the movie characters to write up bios for characters that wouldn't spoil any of the movie plot points (the Decepticons that were reformatted by Unicron are treated like brand new characters in their toy bio. Galvatron is even treated like a sort of underling for Megatron even though Megs is never referred to directly. Rodimus Prime is called a "city commander" or something like that to not give away that he's Optimus' replacement, and he's treated distinctly from Hot Rod)

As you mentioned Tracks, I remembered one I used to have but can't remember. Blue minivan guy...definitely autobot. Thought it was Tracks, but it's not. Oh well.
Blue minivan was Skids. Perhaps the most hilariously shafted original Autobot. He appeared like twice in the cartoon, each time with a different voice actor, had a total of about 5 lines, and teh second time he appeared it was just so he could get trashed by Blitzwing. His biggest problem was that his character was supposed to be a scientist, but the show had already filled that role with a number of other, more prominent characters, chiefly Wheeljack and Ratchet. So there was nothing to do with him. The joke is though that the Marvel comics made up for it with a spotlight issue that included this scene:

Charleneskids.jpg


:laugh:

He was also a fun case of the US staff not understanding what his vehicle mode really was. His toy was apparently modelled on a Honda vehicle called the City Turbo, which was actually a boxy little hatchback. But since Honda only targeted the car for Japan, the design staff for the cartoon had no idea what the car was and naturally assumed that the squared off shape was just a sort of stylized minivan.

He was also apparently one of the rarest G1 figures. When toy stores would order Transformers Figures, they would get cases with set #s and mixes of figures in them (for example, you didn't order a case with 20 Optimus Primes in it. You got a case of TVs and it had a few Optimuses, a few Soundwaves, a few Bumblebees/Cliffjumpers, etc. Apparently in specific ratios.) Some people have claimed that Skids only got shipped at a rate of 1 figure for every 2 cases. So some stores may have ordered tons of Transformers figures and never even received a Skids figure to stock. Crazy.


And Tracks was a blue Corvette that also had wings that popped out from his undercarriage to make a sort of flying-car alternate mode.
 

Baby Punisher

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You could've done just like the kids I knew that had frenzy (the blue toy) and pretend he was really Rumble like the show did :laugh:

Yeah, the bio blurbs, which were written by the Marvel Comics staff that also wrote the initial comics (Bob Budiansky primarily) were sometimes a little different than what the cartoon decided on for characterization. They even went so far for the movie characters to write up bios for characters that wouldn't spoil any of the movie plot points (the Decepticons that were reformatted by Unicron are treated like brand new characters in their toy bio. Galvatron is even treated like a sort of underling for Megatron even though Megs is never referred to directly. Rodimus Prime is called a "city commander" or something like that to not give away that he's Optimus' replacement, and he's treated distinctly from Hot Rod)

Blue minivan was Skids. Perhaps the most hilariously shafted original Autobot. He appeared like twice in the cartoon, each time with a different voice actor, had a total of about 5 lines, and teh second time he appeared it was just so he could get trashed by Blitzwing. His biggest problem was that his character was supposed to be a scientist, but the show had already filled that role with a number of other, more prominent characters, chiefly Wheeljack and Ratchet. So there was nothing to do with him. The joke is though that the Marvel comics made up for it with a spotlight issue that included this scene:

Charleneskids.jpg


:laugh:

He was also a fun case of the US staff not understanding what his vehicle mode really was. His toy was apparently modelled on a Honda vehicle called the City Turbo, which was actually a boxy little hatchback. But since Honda only targeted the car for Japan, the design staff for the cartoon had no idea what the car was and naturally assumed that the squared off shape was just a sort of stylized minivan.

He was also apparently one of the rarest G1 figures. When toy stores would order Transformers Figures, they would get cases with set #s and mixes of figures in them (for example, you didn't order a case with 20 Optimus Primes in it. You got a case of TVs and it had a few Optimuses, a few Soundwaves, a few Bumblebees/Cliffjumpers, etc. Apparently in specific ratios.) Some people have claimed that Skids only got shipped at a rate of 1 figure for every 2 cases. So some stores may have ordered tons of Transformers figures and never even received a Skids figure to stock. Crazy.


And Tracks was a blue Corvette that also had wings that popped out from his undercarriage to make a sort of flying-car alternate mode.

I don't recall this character. But I clearly remember this scene in the comic book.
 

ProstheticConscience

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You could've done just like the kids I knew that had frenzy (the blue toy) and pretend he was really Rumble like the show did :laugh:

Yeah, but I knew it wasn't. I had the little bio thing from the box saying quite clearly: Frenzy. I was a pretty literal kid. :laugh: I was always painfully aware of continuity errors, even then. Drove me crazy.

Yeah, the bio blurbs, which were written by the Marvel Comics staff that also wrote the initial comics (Bob Budiansky primarily) were sometimes a little different than what the cartoon decided on for characterization. They even went so far for the movie characters to write up bios for characters that wouldn't spoil any of the movie plot points (the Decepticons that were reformatted by Unicron are treated like brand new characters in their toy bio. Galvatron is even treated like a sort of underling for Megatron even though Megs is never referred to directly. Rodimus Prime is called a "city commander" or something like that to not give away that he's Optimus' replacement, and he's treated distinctly from Hot Rod)

The movie was pretty much at the very end of my "playing with toys" era of childhood. I kind of twigged how they just killed everyone off so that they could introduce a new toy line, and my enthusiasm was waning for cartoon toys by then anyway. I was entering teenagerdom and more intent on playing with guitars and boobies more than japanese robots by then (although it was a rather more gradual transformation than all that, but still).

Blue minivan was Skids. Perhaps the most hilariously shafted original Autobot. He appeared like twice in the cartoon, each time with a different voice actor, had a total of about 5 lines, and teh second time he appeared it was just so he could get trashed by Blitzwing. His biggest problem was that his character was supposed to be a scientist, but the show had already filled that role with a number of other, more prominent characters, chiefly Wheeljack and Ratchet. So there was nothing to do with him. The joke is though that the Marvel comics made up for it with a spotlight issue that included this scene:

Charleneskids.jpg


:laugh:

He was also a fun case of the US staff not understanding what his vehicle mode really was. His toy was apparently modelled on a Honda vehicle called the City Turbo, which was actually a boxy little hatchback. But since Honda only targeted the car for Japan, the design staff for the cartoon had no idea what the car was and naturally assumed that the squared off shape was just a sort of stylized minivan.

He was also apparently one of the rarest G1 figures. When toy stores would order Transformers Figures, they would get cases with set #s and mixes of figures in them (for example, you didn't order a case with 20 Optimus Primes in it. You got a case of TVs and it had a few Optimuses, a few Soundwaves, a few Bumblebees/Cliffjumpers, etc. Apparently in specific ratios.) Some people have claimed that Skids only got shipped at a rate of 1 figure for every 2 cases. So some stores may have ordered tons of Transformers figures and never even received a Skids figure to stock. Crazy.

Skids. That was it. Had that one. Don't know why, but I did. I think he was more prominent in some Japanese version, but I don't remember. I had a few transformers that were made before the show brought them into it, and a few that were just transformers from something or other that never made it over.


And Tracks was a blue Corvette that also had wings that popped out from his undercarriage to make a sort of flying-car alternate mode.

Didn't have that one. Didn't have Trailbreaker either.
 

Acadmus

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Blue minivan was Skids. Perhaps the most hilariously shafted original Autobot. He appeared like twice in the cartoon, each time with a different voice actor, had a total of about 5 lines, and teh second time he appeared it was just so he could get trashed by Blitzwing. His biggest problem was that his character was supposed to be a scientist, but the show had already filled that role with a number of other, more prominent characters, chiefly Wheeljack and Ratchet. So there was nothing to do with him. The joke is though that the Marvel comics made up for it with a spotlight issue that included this scene:
I'll correct you on this note ;) Wheeljack was the "mad scientist" and Ratchet the medic. Perceptor was the "scientist".

...and then they introduced the Technobots, but let's forget about things like that, too late in the show.
 

Acadmus

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Always wanted Trailbreaker, never had one. :(

I had one that was missing all the accessories (likely got in a trade or something). The same body was used for Hoist though.

And Trailbreaker was sold short in the cartoon too - only had lines in one or two episodes. I think Gears also got sold short - he was a main character in the original Marvel Comics 4-issue limited series that introduced the Transformers to North American kids (including being partnered with a black-costumed Spider-Man in issue #3), but was just an extra for the most part in the cartoon. Too many characters got short shrift in that cartoon to focus on Bumblebee and Spike:sarcasm:
 

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