Speculation: The state of the Winnipeg Franchise

[GaryPoppins]

I have been doing quite a bit of thinking on the state of the franchise as of late. To say the Jets and Moose are flourishing would be false and perhaps a cause for concern.

Starting with the Moose, since their return, the team has seen playoffs only once and this year, though early, is trending in a poor direction. The team is 1-6 and the issues that seem to be plaguing the parent club has manifested and is very present in the farm club. Lack of forward depth, lack of defensive play and most importantly, lack of results. 5V5 production seems to be at a whimper with the Moose and is prevent in parent club, too.

Chipman is loyal and has had Zinger handling the AHL team since forever, but the fact remains that they simply aren't icing a competitive product since their return and attendance combined with a flooded hockey market reflects that.

And with the Jets, the fall from grace has been a spectacular one. What seemed like a team whose window was open for quite some time has seen a severe change in fortunes. Forward depth has been fitted(though still decent), D Corps is replacement level with no help in sight, special teams has been a nightmare, 5V5 scoring has been anemic and defensive structure has been struggling.


Now, one could say that there really was no helping the D situation in the midst of what has been going on with contract negotiations and Buff, but I frankly don't buy in to that rationale. Toronto was cap strapped and still found ways to bolster their D. Buffalo did cost savvy acquisitions to round up their back end. Chicago was able to bring in a few known commodities to assist their young D Corps.

However, the most concerning thing is simply the lack of compete and cohesion in this group. Their play is reflective of the end of Claude Noel's tenure, IMO. What should be one of the premier forward Corps in the league, it has struggled. One would assume the young players being the inconsistent ones, but established vets are some of the most guilty with their play and glaring errors.

The connection is that the system is shared between both the Moose and Jets and both struggle in the same way.

I, as a faithful and loyal fan, am very concerned about the state of this franchise. Extreme loyalty can be a strength but pro sports is a results based business, and to me.
.. I would be taking a hard evaluation on this franchise in regards to where it is and where it is going.

This is not me being chicken little-esque, but I feel these are valid questions and concerns to be asking as a STH.

Click to read more...

 

[Buffdog]

Sheesh...

Third youngest team in the league. Great young talent locked up long term (schief, ehlers, connor, jomo, helle) on good deals. Elite player in Laine finding his game. Great LHD prospects in the pipeline (ville and samberg).

To me, this year is a mini step back/development year like the year before the playoff run. Soon the buff situation should work itself out one way or the other. Grab a vet top 4 RHD as a ufa in the off season, and if buff's done use some of that cap space to grab a bottom 4 rhd as well.

To me the big question is 2C. The way pomo talks, rosie will be given a look there.

Yes the d looks ugly today but there are ways of fixing that. The reality of a salary cap world is that just about every team with elite, well paid talent will have some holes somewhere. I challenge you to find a team that doesn't.

I think people need to step back from the ledge a bit. Imagine being a senators fan right now. Things aren't that bad here. Young team, elite talent, decent cap situation.

 

[Derfel]

Lots of talent and lots of season left.

Re-visit this post in April, please.

 

[heretik27]

Jets need closure with the Byfuglien situation before they can really begin to address the mess that is their back end. As far as our AHL depth is concerned, I've never really given much thought to the Moose because our top prospects either play overseas, or have been so good that they don't end up there for very long. With that said, I've hardly caught much hockey in the last year. I try to follow the news when I can, but I've been pretty busy. The coach has allowed the veterans on this team to run the show for a while. Usually if a shake up is needed, the coach is the first to get the boot, but if Chevy fires Maurice now he'd better hope the replacement makes a difference because then the ownership starts looking at him next.

 

[Shakey Rustie]

This is not me being chicken little-esque, but I feel these are valid questions and concerns to be asking as a STH.

I share ST in a group of 6 people, what rights do I have over others?

 

[Duke749]

Not even ten years and some of y’all are already spoiled.

 

[voyageur]

I have been doing quite a bit of thinking on the state of the franchise as of late. To say the Jets and Moose are flourishing would be false and perhaps a cause for concern.

Starting with the Moose, since their return, the team has seen playoffs only once and this year, though early, is trending in a poor direction. The team is 1-6 and the issues that seem to be plaguing the parent club has manifested and is very present in the farm club. Lack of forward depth, lack of defensive play and most importantly, lack of results. 5V5 production seems to be at a whimper with the Moose and is prevent in parent club, too.

Chipman is loyal and has had Zinger handling the AHL team since forever, but the fact remains that they simply aren't icing a competitive product since their return and attendance combined with a flooded hockey market reflects that.

And with the Jets, the fall from grace has been a spectacular one. What seemed like a team whose window was open for quite some time has seen a severe change in fortunes. Forward depth has been fitted(though still decent), D Corps is replacement level with no help in sight, special teams has been a nightmare, 5V5 scoring has been anemic and defensive structure has been struggling.


Now, one could say that there really was no helping the D situation in the midst of what has been going on with contract negotiations and Buff, but I frankly don't buy in to that rationale. Toronto was cap strapped and still found ways to bolster their D. Buffalo did cost savvy acquisitions to round up their back end. Chicago was able to bring in a few known commodities to assist their young D Corps.

However, the most concerning thing is simply the lack of compete and cohesion in this group. Their play is reflective of the end of Claude Noel's tenure, IMO. What should be one of the premier forward Corps in the league, it has struggled. One would assume the young players being the inconsistent ones, but established vets are some of the most guilty with their play and glaring errors.

The connection is that the system is shared between both the Moose and Jets and both struggle in the same way.

I, as a faithful and loyal fan, am very concerned about the state of this franchise. Extreme loyalty can be a strength but pro sports is a results based business, and to me.
.. I would be taking a hard evaluation on this franchise in regards to where it is and where it is going.

This is not me being chicken little-esque, but I feel these are valid questions and concerns to be asking as a STH.

The state of the franchise is that we are an underdog, even when favoured, as the league's smallest market and one of the least attractive places for free agents to sign. It's not unlike Atlanta, except that management for the Jets has been steadfast in draft and development. It has built a family out of a young core. The biggest change this year is the loss of veteran leadership. Byfuglien for one. Myers was another. Trouba after 6 years was a veteran on the back end.

We built a team for a window around these guys. Stastny gave us a real chance to go all the way. Hayes did not, but the management showed that it was not afraid to give the team a chance in the playoffs, at the price of sacrificing future assets. This year is a retooling of the assets, and the cohesion is not something that comes instantly. Takes practice and development.

I think Chevy's drafting keeps the franchise competitive. The number of draft picks in the lineup reflects this.

The forwards are good at the top end, but in a salary cap league, all teams have talent. Ours is younger with room for growth, Wheeler, Little and Perreault may decline in production, but I think they have some mileage left, especially 26 and 18. The margin is thin though. Coaching plays a factor, but special teams is an area where we good, and this year is a regression (Buff is noticeably absent).

Moose aren't the most competitive, and a lot of their problems arise from defensive woes. I don't think we have ever had a great defense on the Moose. But we have graduated players, Poolman and Niku have developed well for late round picks. I think the change will come when prospects like Vallati, Chisholm, Lundmark join the team as early as next year. Berdin will be ready for the next step too.

In the new NHL you don't stay at the top for long, and you have to know when to hold them, know when to fold them. Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington are teams that have had long runs of success, but they have drafted well around their franchise players, and not lost key assets, without getting some back.

I am just happy we have an NHL team, with the farm in town, those 16 years without were hard. So I am behind this franchise 100%, I just am not in the price range for sustained support, like I was in the first go. But I won't jump ship.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have been doing quite a bit of thinking on the state of the franchise as of late. To say the Jets and Moose are flourishing would be false and perhaps a cause for concern.

Starting with the Moose, since their return, the team has seen playoffs only once and this year, though early, is trending in a poor direction. The team is 1-6 and the issues that seem to be plaguing the parent club has manifested and is very present in the farm club. Lack of forward depth, lack of defensive play and most importantly, lack of results. 5V5 production seems to be at a whimper with the Moose and is prevent in parent club, too.

Chipman is loyal and has had Zinger handling the AHL team since forever, but the fact remains that they simply aren't icing a competitive product since their return and attendance combined with a flooded hockey market reflects that.

And with the Jets, the fall from grace has been a spectacular one. What seemed like a team whose window was open for quite some time has seen a severe change in fortunes. Forward depth has been fitted(though still decent), D Corps is replacement level with no help in sight, special teams has been a nightmare, 5V5 scoring has been anemic and defensive structure has been struggling.


Now, one could say that there really was no helping the D situation in the midst of what has been going on with contract negotiations and Buff, but I frankly don't buy in to that rationale. Toronto was cap strapped and still found ways to bolster their D. Buffalo did cost savvy acquisitions to round up their back end. Chicago was able to bring in a few known commodities to assist their young D Corps.

However, the most concerning thing is simply the lack of compete and cohesion in this group. Their play is reflective of the end of Claude Noel's tenure, IMO. What should be one of the premier forward Corps in the league, it has struggled. One would assume the young players being the inconsistent ones, but established vets are some of the most guilty with their play and glaring errors.

The connection is that the system is shared between both the Moose and Jets and both struggle in the same way.

I, as a faithful and loyal fan, am very concerned about the state of this franchise. Extreme loyalty can be a strength but pro sports is a results based business, and to me.
.. I would be taking a hard evaluation on this franchise in regards to where it is and where it is going.

This is not me being chicken little-esque, but I feel these are valid questions and concerns to be asking as a STH.

The Moose problem isn't Zinger. He provides the non-prospect part of the roster. That part seems to be performing well. The prospects he has been handed are disappointing so far.

It was well known that we were going to lose half of our starting D corps. Chevy had a reasonable, if not great, response. That was derailed by a combination of Buff retiring unexpectedly and a spate of injuries. That can't be planned for. We lost 3 starters form last year. Then we lost 3 starters from what was left. What do you expect?

The head coach sets the systems and approach to the game for both teams. I think that is the common thread here.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I share ST in a group of 6 people, what rights do I have over others?

You pay their bills.

 

[Neuf]

 

[Jets 31]

The Jets will be fine , we have a young talented team , don't panic , yet .

 

[Guardian17]

I grew up in the Jets 1.0 era and endured Mike Smith as our GM.

Winnipeg is not the most attractive destination for players so we have to develop our own.

For me, this season we were put in a situation with 2 RFA's which prevented us from signing UFA's.

Byfuglien's situation came out of nowhere and until he makes a decision we are stuck in limbo.

We may have to take a step back this season, but, we'll have cap space and a more experienced team next season.

The fact is there are only 31 and soon 32 cities on the planet with an NHL team and Winnipeg is one of them.


Go! Go!

 

[robertocarlos]

One of those two, Moose or Jets, will leave town in 5 years.

 

[Ducky10]

One of those two, Moose or Jets, will leave town in 5 years.

Another scintillating hot take. If you think the Jets will be leaving town in 5 years, you are completely out of touch. I honestly don’t believe you really believe that yourself.

 

[Hunter368]

Oh brother

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Another scintillating hot take. If you think the Jets will be leaving town in 5 years, you are completely out of touch. I honestly don’t believe you really believe that yourself.

That is an incorrect interpretation of what he said. If I said, one of Tom Brady or I will sleep with Gisele Bundchen tonight, that statement is in all likelihood true. However, would you jump to the conclusion I think that person will be me?

 

[AlphaLackey]

That is an incorrect interpretation of what he said. If I said, one of Tom Brady or I will sleep with Gisele Bundchen tonight, that statement is in all likelihood true. However, would you jump to the conclusion I think that person will be me?

as always, the difference between "human english" and "logician english" has been as far apart since the first time anyone was asked if they wanted "coffee [x]or tea"

 

[Jets 31]

One of those two, Moose or Jets, will leave town in 5 years.

I'll bet you also said we would never get the Jets back too right ? Man i argued with alot of people that told me to forget about the Jets ever coming back .

 

[Jerts]

My issue is that we don't have a Wheeler/Byfuglien or other game breaker in our pipeline.
Our years of mediocrity meant that we didn't get top picks (outside of Laine).

We won't be getting these from free agency either.

 

[Deedog99]

Sheesh...

Third youngest team in the league. Great young talent locked up long term (schief, ehlers, connor, jomo, helle) on good deals. Elite player in Laine finding his game. Great LHD prospects in the pipeline (ville and samberg).

To me, this year is a mini step back/development year like the year before the playoff run. Soon the buff situation should work itself out one way or the other. Grab a vet top 4 RHD as a ufa in the off season, and if buff's done use some of that cap space to grab a bottom 4 rhd as well.

To me the big question is 2C. The way pomo talks, rosie will be given a look there.

Yes the d looks ugly today but there are ways of fixing that. The reality of a salary cap world is that just about every team with elite, well paid talent will have some holes somewhere. I challenge you to find a team that doesn't.

I think people need to step back from the ledge a bit. Imagine being a senators fan right now. Things aren't that bad here. Young team, elite talent, decent cap situation.

EXActly this. A step back year. Load up for next year.

 

[cbcwpg]

I was a Moose season ticket holder each year they were in Winnipeg before the NHL came back, and even though the Moose were a farm team , their main goal was to put a winning team on the ice. And they knew they had to do this to survive And they did give us some entertainment and some success.

Now that the Jets are back, the goal of the Moose, as I see it, is all about player development and not necessarily winning or even being entertaining.

When I was a Moose STH it was because they were the only game in town, but now, even if I wasn’t a Jets STH, I would not be a Moose STH. I really have no interest in watching the product they ice. And IMO, logistic benefits aside, the Moose should not be in Winnipeg.

That’s my take on the Moose.

as far as the Jets... the on ice product is always going to have its ups and downs, that’s a given. If I was TSNE, my biggest concern should be how I keep increasing ticket prices each year while clawing back any benefit to being a STH, whether intended or not. This season , so far, I could have gone to every single game at a lesser cost than I pay for season tickets. It’s nearing the “why bother” point.

 

[KingBogo]

My issue is that we don't have a Wheeler/Byfuglien or other game breaker in our pipeline.
Our years of mediocrity meant that we didn't get top picks (outside of Laine).

We won't be getting these from free agency either.

I would say Heinola should be considered a potential game breaker. What he has shown as an 18 y/o is just short of amazing. We all might be seeing the early days of an elite #1 that puts up points with the best D-Man in the league.

 

[GumbyCan2]

I have been doing quite a bit of thinking on the state of the franchise as of late. To say the Jets and Moose are flourishing would be false and perhaps a cause for concern.

Starting with the Moose, since their return, the team has seen playoffs only once and this year, though early, is trending in a poor direction. The team is 1-6 and the issues that seem to be plaguing the parent club has manifested and is very present in the farm club. Lack of forward depth, lack of defensive play and most importantly, lack of results. 5V5 production seems to be at a whimper with the Moose and is prevent in parent club, too.

Chipman is loyal and has had Zinger handling the AHL team since forever, but the fact remains that they simply aren't icing a competitive product since their return and attendance combined with a flooded hockey market reflects that.

And with the Jets, the fall from grace has been a spectacular one. What seemed like a team whose window was open for quite some time has seen a severe change in fortunes. Forward depth has been fitted(though still decent), D Corps is replacement level with no help in sight, special teams has been a nightmare, 5V5 scoring has been anemic and defensive structure has been struggling.


Now, one could say that there really was no helping the D situation in the midst of what has been going on with contract negotiations and Buff, but I frankly don't buy in to that rationale. Toronto was cap strapped and still found ways to bolster their D. Buffalo did cost savvy acquisitions to round up their back end. Chicago was able to bring in a few known commodities to assist their young D Corps.

However, the most concerning thing is simply the lack of compete and cohesion in this group. Their play is reflective of the end of Claude Noel's tenure, IMO. What should be one of the premier forward Corps in the league, it has struggled. One would assume the young players being the inconsistent ones, but established vets are some of the most guilty with their play and glaring errors.

The connection is that the system is shared between both the Moose and Jets and both struggle in the same way.

I, as a faithful and loyal fan, am very concerned about the state of this franchise. Extreme loyalty can be a strength but pro sports is a results based business, and to me.
.. I would be taking a hard evaluation on this franchise in regards to where it is and where it is going.

This is not me being chicken little-esque, but I feel these are valid questions and concerns to be asking as a STH.

Some Very valid, well-stated points made there. Thumbs up to you.
I do Not want to be negative or lose faith in our beloved Jets.
But reality is proposing some "dull" marks on the franchise, as you point out.
Coaching staleness, uilization and management input right now is the causes to this. Something better turn around as a whole or lesser faith by the fan-base will definitely result. I dont think the franchise can survive strongly without huge community, fan-base commitment!

I would say Heinola should be considered a potential game breaker. What he has shown as an 18 y/o is just short of amazing. We all might be seeing the early days of an elite #1 that puts up points with the best D-Man in the league.

To the play of Heinola, yes he should be playing because he has shown competence znd the team is more successful with him playing.
I get the "fears" and potential future negatives to rushing youngsters into the fray too soon. But Heinola has shown to be a rarity in his on-ice actions and handling situations that defy his youthfulness and inexperience. He is deserving right now. The team success is better with him playing overall and thus reality and team-need precipitate his being in the lineup now. MO!

 

[Robinson2187]

I'll bet you also said we would never get the Jets back too right ? Man i argued with alot of people that told me to forget about the Jets ever coming back .

For 15 years or whatever it was, I was telling anyone that would listen that they would be back eventually.

Most laughed at me.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

I have been doing quite a bit of thinking on the state of the franchise as of late. To say the Jets and Moose are flourishing would be false and perhaps a cause for concern.

Starting with the Moose, since their return, the team has seen playoffs only once and this year, though early, is trending in a poor direction. The team is 1-6 and the issues that seem to be plaguing the parent club has manifested and is very present in the farm club. Lack of forward depth, lack of defensive play and most importantly, lack of results. 5V5 production seems to be at a whimper with the Moose and is prevent in parent club, too.

Chipman is loyal and has had Zinger handling the AHL team since forever, but the fact remains that they simply aren't icing a competitive product since their return and attendance combined with a flooded hockey market reflects that.

And with the Jets, the fall from grace has been a spectacular one. What seemed like a team whose window was open for quite some time has seen a severe change in fortunes. Forward depth has been fitted(though still decent), D Corps is replacement level with no help in sight, special teams has been a nightmare, 5V5 scoring has been anemic and defensive structure has been struggling.


Now, one could say that there really was no helping the D situation in the midst of what has been going on with contract negotiations and Buff, but I frankly don't buy in to that rationale. Toronto was cap strapped and still found ways to bolster their D. Buffalo did cost savvy acquisitions to round up their back end. Chicago was able to bring in a few known commodities to assist their young D Corps.

However, the most concerning thing is simply the lack of compete and cohesion in this group. Their play is reflective of the end of Claude Noel's tenure, IMO. What should be one of the premier forward Corps in the league, it has struggled. One would assume the young players being the inconsistent ones, but established vets are some of the most guilty with their play and glaring errors.

The connection is that the system is shared between both the Moose and Jets and both struggle in the same way.

I, as a faithful and loyal fan, am very concerned about the state of this franchise. Extreme loyalty can be a strength but pro sports is a results based business, and to me.
.. I would be taking a hard evaluation on this franchise in regards to where it is and where it is going.

This is not me being chicken little-esque, but I feel these are valid questions and concerns to be asking as a STH.

I think your post is excellent. It is spot on. There are fundamental problems that need to be addressed that are not being addressed. I truly believe a high profile winger needs to be traded for defence. You quite simply don't build a team through wingers. Too much salary is tied up there. Wheeler looks like he has stopped caring and his contract is an albatross.

Laine looks like a Trouba situation. I have lost trust in Maurice and Chevy has had more than enough chances now.

I actively cheer for them to lose as the status quo will only create more pain down the road. Your point about loyalty is excellent. It undermines the merit principle and thats dangerous.

Maybe a Buff retirement would shake things up somewhat. I doubt it however.