Speculation: The Sharks are going for the cup next season. How do they proceed?

[hockeyball]

Letting go of Wingels isn't that easy. You trade him and you open up a big hole at RW and F1 and probably aren't getting full value. He isn't easily replaceable. How do you expect to get a replacement? We aren't going to be able to go down the UFA road. Wilson isn't trading any young assets. We aren't going to trade any of our defensemen (at least, not those with value anyway)

You have to meet his contract demands even if they're not entirely ideal.

Keep in mind that our RW depth chart currently looks like this

Wingels
Nieto
Kennedy
Burish
Brown

Nieto, Kennedy, Burish, Brown is absolutely awful down the RW and the team isn't tanking. In addition, you're left with no solid top-9 F1s except for Marleau Torres who you can't entirely depend on to stay healthy and actually be an F1 on a top line.

While I'm okay with the move of Burns back to D, it opens a hole which Wingels which will have to partially fill.

No one wants to lose him, but Wilson isn't going to be held hostage by a player who's so far at best proved to be a good 3rd liner. He's replaceable, and we are not even trying to compete right now anyway so it doesn't matter.

Ehrhoff has been bought out. How much $$/term do we offer him? He'd really help bolster our D. Please make it happen DW.

Not only does Ehrhoff want to go east, but he was reportedly pretty pissed when he was traded for nothing and likely wants nothing to do with this team. On top of that the same GM who traded him for nothing is still GM of this team so why would he bring him back?

how much cap do the Sharks have after resignings (if there are any)?

If Niemi goes we are in the neighborhood of $7-8m.

 

[Hobocop]

Curious why people think Pavelski is a good 3C option? He's paid 6m dollars to be neutralized by players that are paid 3m-4m? He hasn't dominated competition at all in that role. Even when he had capable 3rd line players with him.

He needs to go. I don't think we need him to play wing we could get good return for a team that wants him at 2C

Pavelski is the guy I thought we should trade, but if that were to happen wouldn't we do it by today? That NTC kicks in tomorrow, right?

 

[Barrie22]

Pavelski is the guy I thought we should trade, but if that were to happen wouldn't we do it by today? That NTC kicks in tomorrow, right?

Yup july 1st, but i am going to go out on a limb and say it isn't a full no trade clause. It has openings or certain limitations to it.

Meaning pavs can be moved still, just makes it a bit harder after july 1st.

 

[Hobocop]

Yup july 1st, but i am going to go out on a limb and say it isn't a full no trade clause. It has openings or certain limitations to it.

Meaning pavs can be moved still, just makes it a bit harder after july 1st.

Yeah, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. If that's your plan, why make it more complicated?

 

[Timo Time]

I think the buyout of Error just made DW so mad. He won't go after big name UFA's but deep down he was probably hoping to maybe even trade for him. But now that he's hit the free agent market DW will refuse to sign him so he doesn't contradict himself.

 

[SJeasy]

No one wants to lose him, but Wilson isn't going to be held hostage by a player who's so far at best proved to be a good 3rd liner. He's replaceable, and we are not even trying to compete right now anyway so it doesn't matter.

Wingels is not easily replaceable. Look at what they are getting out of Kennedy (almost nothing). It is far more common for DW, as well as other GMs, to fail miserably on tweeners/third liners.

He is roughly equal to Torres.

I am not committed to keeping him, but he does have value and certainly does not deserve to be lowballed. He has earned his spot as well as a reasonable payday.

My bone to pick with Wingels is his playoff production.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Wingels is not easily replaceable. Look at what they are getting out of Kennedy (almost nothing). It is far more common for DW, as well as other GMs, to fail miserably on tweeners/third liners.

He is roughly equal to Torres.

I am not committed to keeping him, but he does have value and certainly does not deserve to be lowballed. He has earned his spot as well as a reasonable payday.

My bone to pick with Wingels is his playoff production.

Exactly. What the hell happened with him in the playoffs. Thought the Kings would be a great opponent for him. He just looked neutered out there or prone to bad decisions like Demers was.

 

[SJGoalie32]

My bone to pick with Wingels is his playoff production.

I agree, but I think it's still a small sample size. He's still inexperienced and getting limited minutes with lower-line players. One would expect him to produce at least near to what he did during the regular season, but I'm still willing to give him a little leash for future improvement.

Now, if he's still drastically underperforming like that in the playoffs 10 years from now, then yeah, we should cut him loose.......or give him a massive contract with a NMC. Because that's how we roll.

 

[Gigante]

Hate this two thread thing because at this point I think we can base analysis on what DW has done so far and the comments from Patty/Thornton, but I'll post here.

Updating the list of moves I'm hoping for at this point:

• Sign Demers to a 3yr $8.25M deal
• Sign Wingels to a 3yr $7.5M deal
• Sign Shep to a 2yr $2.75M deal
• Sign Tye McGuinn to a 2yr $2M deal 1-way
• Sign Tennyson for same hit; 2-way
• Trade Kennedy for Grant Clitsome (deal is pretty fair, but add some pick on our side if necessary)
• Trade Burish for anything (since buyout won't be used)
• Offer sheet Krug $10M 3yrs (give up 2nd pick - Boston likely matches, has to make tough choices regarding Reilly Smith) [alternative, can offer sheet Reilly Smith]
• Some trade involving Neimi and Reimer (signed at similar contract to current)

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Joe Pavelski ($6.000m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / Tomas Hertl ($0.925m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.667m) / Logan Couture ($6.000m) / Matt Nieto ($0.759m)
Tye McGinn ($1.000m) / James Sheppard ($1.375m) / Tommy Wingels ($2.500m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Mike Brown ($1.200m)
John Scott ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Brent Burns ($5.760m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m)
Torey Krug ($3.333m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Grant Clitsome ($2.067m) / Jason Demers ($2.750m)
Matt Irwin ($1.000m) / Mirco Mueller ($0.894m)
Matt Tennyson ($1.175m) /
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.800m)
Alex Stalock ($1.600m)
BUYOUTS
Martin Havlat ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$175,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,680,000; BONUSES: $1,015,833
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $6,320,000

Seems like Krug wants some term, I say we try offering it to him. Be good to keep it 3yr $10M so hit the $3.33 and stay in the 2nd round compensation pocket. Might be worth giving up a 1st and 3rd for him, I honestly haven't looked at what a ~20 pick in the next year will net us in the "deep draft".

As an alternative to above (since it won't all happen), I'd be down for signing MDZ for 2yrs $1M/yr.

With these moves we still have room to put into signing a 3C (since above includes Pavelski at 3C). Although, I'd personally prefer to see Pavelski sandwiched between McGuinn and Wingels and see what her can do there and sign a LW.

 

[210]

The CBA experts say Krug can't be offer sheeted because despite being a RFA he doesn't have enough years of service.

 

[Gigante]

The CBA experts say Krug can't be offer sheeted because despite being a RFA he doesn't have enough years of service.

Bummer, I think this is correct. Plan B, swap Reilly Smith in there. Reilly is 23 with 2yrs professional experience so he is out of entry-level and thus is open to offer sheet because he's achieved Group II RFA status. I'd be down to offer sheet Reilly Smith and then sign MDZ (bumped up to $1.5M to make it happen). Is it an all-star defense? No. But I think it has a lot of potential and it's significantly better than last year with a lot of youthful potential.

If we did this, I'd consider giving Hertl his own line with McGuinn and Wingels on there. Both Wingels and McGuinn are physical and can protect Hertl.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Joe Pavelski ($6.000m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / Reilly Smith ($3.333m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.667m) / Logan Couture ($6.000m) / Matt Nieto ($0.759m)
Tye McGinn ($1.000m) / Tomas Hertl ($0.925m) / Tommy Wingels ($2.500m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / James Sheppard ($1.375m) / Mike Brown ($1.200m)
John Scott ($0.700m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Brent Burns ($5.760m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.000m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Grant Clitsome ($2.067m) / Jason Demers ($2.750m)
Matt Irwin ($1.000m) / Mirco Mueller ($0.894m)
Matt Tennyson ($1.175m) /
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.800m)
Alex Stalock ($1.600m)
BUYOUTS
Martin Havlat ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$175,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,680,000; BONUSES: $1,015,833
CAP SPACE (25-man roster): $5,320,000

 

[Gilligans Island]

Hate this two thread thing because at this point I think we can base analysis on what DW has done so far and the comments from Patty/Thornton, but I'll post here.

Updating the list of moves I'm hoping for at this point:

• Sign Demers to a 3yr $8.25M deal
• Sign Wingels to a 3yr $7.5M deal
• Sign Shep to a 2yr $2.75M deal
• Sign Tye McGuinn to a 2yr $2M deal 1-way
• Sign Tennyson for same hit; 2-way
• Trade Kennedy for Grant Clitsome (deal is pretty fair, but add some pick on our side if necessary)
• Trade Burish for anything (since buyout won't be used)
• Offer sheet Krug $10M 3yrs (give up 2nd pick - Boston likely matches, has to make tough choices regarding Reilly Smith) [alternative, can offer sheet Reilly Smith]
• Some trade involving Neimi and Reimer (signed at similar contract to current)

Seems like Krug wants some term, I say we try offering it to him. Be good to keep it 3yr $10M so hit the $3.33 and stay in the 2nd round compensation pocket. Might be worth giving up a 1st and 3rd for him, I honestly haven't looked at what a ~20 pick in the next year will net us in the "deep draft".

As an alternative to above (since it won't all happen), I'd be down for signing MDZ for 2yrs $1M/yr.

With these moves we still have room to put into signing a 3C (since above includes Pavelski at 3C). Although, I'd personally prefer to see Pavelski sandwiched between McGuinn and Wingels and see what her can do there and sign a LW.

I'd offer sheet Simon Despres instead - go to the max of the 2nd round pick tier if needed. Pens could be cap trouble.

 

[one2gamble]

Wingels is not easily replaceable. Look at what they are getting out of Kennedy (almost nothing). It is far more common for DW, as well as other GMs, to fail miserably on tweeners/third liners.

He is roughly equal to Torres.

I am not committed to keeping him, but he does have value and certainly does not deserve to be lowballed. He has earned his spot as well as a reasonable payday.

My bone to pick with Wingels is his playoff production.

Letting Wingels walk wouldnt be an issue if DW wasnt trying tot replace him with some random thug.

I tend to think his playoff production is a product of not being able to create offense on his own. Hes good enough to cause some havoc, to finish a play but not to set one up.

 

[Gigante]

I'd offer sheet Simon Despres instead - go to the max of the 2nd round pick tier if needed. Pens could be cap trouble.

I'm also down for this - I think there are a few scenarios that I'm good with. I don't have my heart set on any specific player per-se, really down for anything that is achievable and will improve our current roster.

 

[SJeasy]

Letting Wingels walk wouldnt be an issue if DW wasnt trying tot replace him with some random thug.

I tend to think his playoff production is a product of not being able to create offense on his own. Hes good enough to cause some havoc, to finish a play but not to set one up.

You may be right on playoff production. The lower liners that tend to score are those with a bit more speed/dangle. I suspect he would produce a bit more if he was solidly on second line. He does have enough playoff games to pretty much label him a low producer for playoff games.

I don't think they can lose him at this point because at the least he is injury insurance for the top 6. They won't have a lot of options for top 6 replacements with Havlat gone and Kennedy gone or on the outs.

With the message that DW is sending with his moves, I wouldn't be surprised if RFAs play hardball in negotiations and don't extend beyond their RFA years unless it is for a very high relative price. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Demers and Wingels take DW to arbitration. DW loses a lot of leverage by not bringing in competition (I don't consider Tye McGinn competition). What happens next year if Braun decides that SJ is not where he wants to be long-term?

 

[Timos Death Stare]

You may be right on playoff production. The lower liners that tend to score are those with a bit more speed/dangle. I suspect he would produce a bit more if he was solidly on second line. He does have enough playoff games to pretty much label him a low producer for playoff games.

I don't think they can lose him at this point because at the least he is injury insurance for the top 6. They won't have a lot of options for top 6 replacements with Havlat gone and Kennedy gone or on the outs.

With the message that DW is sending with his moves, I wouldn't be surprised if RFAs play hardball in negotiations and don't extend beyond their RFA years unless it is for a very high relative price. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Demers and Wingels take DW to arbitration. DW loses a lot of leverage by not bringing in competition (I don't consider Tye McGinn competition). What happens next year if Braun decides that SJ is not where he wants to be long-term?

Has there been any indication that he is on his way out (other than him consistently being in the dog house and not playing in the POs save a game?).

 

[SJeasy]

Has there been any indication that he is on his way out (other than him consistently being in the dog house and not playing in the POs save a game?).

No. Past history of coaches/management says that if he remains that he will be an injury replacement player at best. Look at Galiardi's usage. I do think DW will try to unload him. Signing Tye McGinn was an indicator.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I think Kennedy wasn't necessarily in the doghouse. He had a bad groin and was sick a good part of the year. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a sports hernia.

 

[Timos Death Stare]

No. Past history of coaches/management says that if he remains that he will be an injury replacement player at best. Look at Galiardi's usage. I do think DW will try to unload him. Signing Tye McGinn was an indicator.

I'd love to unload him.... just don't know if DW would do it after spending a 2nd and at least giving him more "opportunities" during the season. If he can't get something semi-valuable back - ie a 4th perhaps - then I can see DW/TMAC trying to potentially riding it out.

The coaching staff is weird about doghouse players. Look at Demers for example - goes in and out constantly, but can show flashes of brilliance.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'd love to unload him.... just don't know if DW would do it after spending a 2nd and at least giving him more "opportunities" during the season. If he can't get something semi-valuable back - ie a 4th perhaps - then I can see DW/TMAC trying to potentially riding it out.

The coaching staff is weird about doghouse players. Look at Demers for example - goes in and out constantly, but can show flashes of brilliance.

Its been a while since Demers has been in the doghouse since he's far more consistent in his play quality.

 

[SJeasy]

Its been a while since Demers has been in the doghouse since he's far more consistent in his play quality.

They also had less options with which to replace him.

 

[Mafoofoo]

What happens next year if Braun decides that SJ is not where he wants to be long-term?

Well then we can thank DW for effectively destroying a great team really quickly and then we can have Wild fans thank us for Braun.

 

[Gigante]

I try to keep my list pretty reasonable as to what we could actually do. At the same time, I'm interested in what combinations we could have. Wonder if it's time now for Hertl to start centering his own line or if we give him one more year of Jumbo setting him up. Either way, in the below, I consider Hertl and Pavelski to be interchangeable from 3C to 1LW.

• Sign Demers to a 3yr $9M deal (upped from prior)
  I try to keep my list pretty reasonable. Since we've had some signings since last post I decided to update.
• Trade Kennedy+ for Grant Clitsome (deal is pretty fair, but add some pick on our side if necessary)
• Trade Burish for anything (since buyout won't be used)
• Sign MDZ for $1.5M (1yr or 2yr deal)
• Sign David Moss 2yrs $2.5M/yr
• Goalie need around the league seems pretty light, so I'm assuming we keep Neimi although I'm down to sign another and trade him.
• Cap space left over to acquire a possible rental at TDL

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Tomas Hertl ($0.925m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / David Moss ($2.500m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.667m) / Logan Couture ($6.000m) / Matt Nieto ($0.759m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($6.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($2.475m)
James Sheppard ($1.300m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Tye McGinn ($0.600m)
John Scott ($0.700m) / Mike Brown ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.500m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Grant Clitsome ($2.067m) / Jason Demers ($3.000m)
Mirco Mueller ($0.894m) / Matt Irwin ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($1.600m)
BUYOUTS
Martin Havlat ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$175,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,921,667; BONUSES: $1,015,833
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $5,078,333

 

[Gigante]

As an alternative to the above, I'd be down to sign Ott for our 3C and keep Pavelski up top.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Joe Pavelski ($6.000m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / Tomas Hertl ($0.925m)
Patrick Marleau ($6.667m) / Logan Couture ($6.000m) / Matt Nieto ($0.759m)
Raffi Torres ($2.000m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Tommy Wingels ($2.475m)
James Sheppard ($1.300m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / Tye McGinn ($0.600m)
John Scott ($0.700m) / Mike Brown ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($4.250m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.500m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)
Grant Clitsome ($2.067m) / Jason Demers ($3.000m)
Mirco Mueller ($0.894m) / Matt Irwin ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Alex Stalock ($1.600m)
BUYOUTS
Martin Havlat ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$175,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,371,667; BONUSES: $1,015,833
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $4,628,333

The thought of a 3rd line of Torres, Ott and Wingels makes me pretty dang excited. Ott's also one of those places that would help increase the "do whatever it takes" attitude.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Ott is a terrible player now. I'd rather James Sheppard as the #3C.