OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: World Cup N'at

[Al Smith]

Good article about that - Ben Roethlisberger and the Rise of the Oversensitive Franchise Quarterback

Interesting. Was trying to remember, didn’t Ben restructure his contract a few years back to help the team keep some otherwise unaffordable teammates?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Interesting. Was trying to remember, didn’t Ben restructure his contract a few years back to help the team keep some otherwise unaffordable teammates?

Yeah, just a chance for some to pile on Ben who already hated him before this. He can be as thin skinned as he wants...guy took more abuse " on the field" than any QB ive ever seen and still won us a ton of games. Superbowls.

 

[DanielPlainview]

How much of him have you actually watched?

Besides, Ben wasnt too accurate early in his career. Our WRs were constantly running back on his lobbed passes that were off target. He also overthrew alot of passes on shorter routes. Ben got much better throughout the years. Changed his game completely. Deserves alot of credit for that, which I dont see mentioned in the media that often.

Rudolph has been very accurate on the deep ball. He has some things to work on but have no idea where you are getting this lack of accuracy thing from. And he has the tools...certain things you cant teach. So theres no reason not to think he can improve on other areas with his high football IQ

Ben was a scrambler for the first 5 or so years of his career. One of the best scramblers of all time.

Rudolph does not have an accurate deep ball. He throws floaters that will get picked off in the NFL. Other Okie State fans said as much. They know Rudolph's WRs made him look better than he is. His deep ball is overrated and his short-to-mid accuracy is questionable. It's up to him to improve.

 

[Al Smith]

Yeah, just a chance for some to pile on Ben who already hated him before this. He can be as thin skinned as he wants...guy took more abuse " on the field" than any QB ive ever seen and still won us a ton of games. Superbowls.

The article mentions something about him separating himself from teammates. It’s one thing to say he’s overly sensitive and a drama queen, but to say he’s a bad teammate to anyone other than the guy drafted at the same position is going way too far. Oh well, only three more months of crap like this until training camp starts

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Jaylen Samuels the first to sign his rookie contract. Hes ready to go. With camp starting on Friday.

Not usually this excited about a 5th round pick. Interested to see what this swiss army knife player can do.

 

[Pengwins]

Jaylen Samuels the first to sign his rookie contract. Hes ready to go. With camp starting on Friday.

Not usually this excited about a 5th round pick. Interested to see what this swiss army knife player can do.

Good. He’s a beast. He might be a good fit for our offense and be able to become a playmaker

 

[USMC607]

Ben was a scrambler for the first 5 or so years of his career. One of the best scramblers of all time.

Rudolph does not have an accurate deep ball. He throws floaters that will get picked off in the NFL. Other Okie State fans said as much. They know Rudolph's WRs made him look better than he is. His deep ball is overrated and his short-to-mid accuracy is questionable. It's up to him to improve.

Yes yes and yes. Everything you said about Rudolph is right.

I watched a good amount of oksu games.

All he does is throw floaters. His WRs especially Washington made him look better than he is.

Which is why I truly believe Washington is gonna be a stud.

 

[USMC607]

Jaylen Samuels the first to sign his rookie contract. Hes ready to go. With camp starting on Friday.

Not usually this excited about a 5th round pick. Interested to see what this swiss army knife player can do.

I really think him and Washington come in and help produce right away.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I really think him and Washington come in and help produce right away.

Should be able to with their talent and the help they will have arround them.

Always worried about rookies come playoff time tho, so we will need Juju to step up this time.

Last time we were in the Superbowl we had :

Hines Ward
Mike Wallace
Antonio Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Antwaan Randel El

Youd think with that list of names, we would have put up 50 points. But Ward and ARE were basically done and Brown/Sanders were rookies. Wallace was the one we had to rely on. He wasnt bad but he was no Holmes in 08. Speaking of that...we got rid of Holmes that same year. Would have been nice to have him for that game. Especially with the Packers missing most of their secondary in second half.

We've had a ton of talent at WR over the years, when one or two are getting up their in age , we already have their replacements.

How will this trio stack up?

- Ward, Burress, ARE. (Burress leaving before we won superbowl 40 and ARE leaving after)

-Ward, Holmes, Nate Washington ( won Superbowl 43 with this group . Year we drafted Limas Sweed to be the #3)

- Ward, Holmes, Wallace ( 2009 , this was our best offense but didnt make playoffs at 9-7 . Then traded Holmes in offseason and drafted Brown/Sanders).

Brown , Wallace, Sanders

Brown, Bryant , Wheaton (great offense no defense)

Brown, Bryant, Juju (Bryant started to come along late in the season, this could have been a great trio this year)

2018 - Brown, Juju, Washington . Samuels will be listed as a RB but can see him lining up at WR/TE as well. And maybe Quadree Henderson is used on offense as well if he makes it. If Rogers doesnt come back. Can count Bell as a WR these last handful of years too. This is going to be a fun offense to watch.

 

[USMC607]

Should be able to with their talent and the help they will have arround them.

Always worried about rookies come playoff time tho, so we will need Juju to step up this time.

Last time we were in the Superbowl we had :

Hines Ward
Mike Wallace
Antonio Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Antwaan Randel El

Youd think with that list of names, we would have put up 50 points. But Ward and ARE were basically done and Brown/Sanders were rookies. Wallace was the one we had to rely on. He wasnt bad but he was no Holmes in 08. Speaking of that...we got rid of Holmes that same year. Would have been nice to have him for that game. Especially with the Packers missing most of their secondary in second half.

We've had a ton of talent at WR over the years, when one or two are getting up their in age , we already have their replacements.

How will this trio stack up?

- Ward, Burress, ARE. (Burress leaving before we won superbowl 40 and ARE leaving after)

-Ward, Holmes, Nate Washington ( won Superbowl 43 with this group . Year we drafted Limas Sweed to be the #3)

- Ward, Holmes, Wallace ( 2009 , this was our best offense but didnt make playoffs at 9-7 . Then traded Holmes in offseason and drafted Brown/Sanders).

Brown , Wallace, Sanders

Brown, Bryant , Wheaton (great offense no defense)

Brown, Bryant, Juju (Bryant started to come along late in the season, this could have been a great trio this year)

2018 - Brown, Juju, Washington . Samuels will be listed as a RB but can see him lining up at WR/TE as well. And maybe Quadree Henderson is used on offense as well if he makes it. If Rogers doesnt come back. Can count Bell as a WR these last handful of years too. This is going to be a fun offense to watch.

Yea talk about a move biting you in the ass. If we had Santonio we would have been in a better position.

Wallace was ok, but he really could only run fly routes. Ward and ARE were on the downslope.

I heard they were looking to gameplan around Emmanuel Sanders but his injury kinda threw a wrench into everything, and Brown barely saw the field then. Even though he made a clutch helmet catch against baltimore.

Still annoyed with that Superbowl loss. If mendenhall doesnt fumble that damn ball... Also if we could have stopped Jordy Nelson just 1 fricken time.

 

[USMC607]

Wasn't as bad as Neil O' Payoff... against the cowboys... yeesh, to this day I cant think of someone throwing anymore blatant interceptions then he did.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Wasn't as bad as Neil O' Payoff... against the cowboys... yeesh, to this day I cant think of someone throwing anymore blatant interceptions then he did.

No camera angles could find any steelers wrs in the picture.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yea talk about a move biting you in the ass. If we had Santonio we would have been in a better position.

Wallace was ok, but he really could only run fly routes. Ward and ARE were on the downslope.

I heard they were looking to gameplan around Emmanuel Sanders but his injury kinda threw a wrench into everything, and Brown barely saw the field then. Even though he made a clutch helmet catch against baltimore.

Still annoyed with that Superbowl loss. If mendenhall doesnt fumble that damn ball... Also if we could have stopped Jordy Nelson just 1 fricken time.

Are you talking about moving Holmes in a trade biting them in the ass?

I’m pretty sure that fifth rounder they got from the Jets turned into AB via a trade, just forget the details... Arizona I think gave them the sixth they ultimately used on AB.

 

[USMC607]

Are you talking about moving Holmes in a trade biting them in the ass?

I’m pretty sure that fifth rounder they got from the Jets turned into AB via a trade, just forget the details... Arizona I think gave them the sixth they ultimately used on AB.

Thought AB was a 6th rounder?

 

[USMC607]

Are you talking about moving Holmes in a trade biting them in the ass?

I’m pretty sure that fifth rounder they got from the Jets turned into AB via a trade, just forget the details... Arizona I think gave them the sixth they ultimately used on AB.

Ok ok I looked it up. They used that 5th and traded it to Arizona for McFadden and their 6th which was used on Brown.

But short term yes it hurt cause Holmes definitly would have helped them that super bowl.

But long term. Hell no, in hindsight we do that 100 out of 100 times.

 

[USMC607]

Also helped that we beat the jets who had holmes in the AFC championship game.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ok ok I looked it up. They used that 5th and traded it to Arizona for McFadden and their 6th which was used on Brown.

But short term yes it hurt cause Holmes definitly would have helped them that super bowl.

But long term. Hell no, in hindsight we do that 100 out of 100 times.

My daughter was just born so I missed that SB. Didn’t care to rewatch for obvious reasons, but I thought Mendenhall fumbling and BR pick were why they lost?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

With all of those mistakes, Ben still had the ball left with 2 mins left. Ready for another GW drive. But no WR to get open...they werent on the same page. We didnt even get a first down( I believe). Thats not typical of Ben. His WRs werent on the same page, running wrong routes(few times with Sanders).

Theres plenty of reasons, like losing Pouncey as well. But we can take all of that away and just focus on the last drive. That was where Holmes was missed. A reliable WR for Ben, who just did it two years before. Especially with the Packers missing half of their secondary. Still couldnt exploit it late.

 

[USMC607]

My daughter was just born so I missed that SB. Didn’t care to rewatch for obvious reasons, but I thought Mendenhall fumbling and BR pick were why they lost?

The 1 interception Keomatu (spelling?)
Let a dude blow by him and Ben was hit as he threw, which ben also hurt his knee on. The 2nd Wallace decided to let the CB have it.

But that was all in the 1st quarter maybe beginning of 2nd.

We came back and were down by 4 we had all the momentum and Mendenhall fumbles.

We come back again and are only down by 6 and they just kept trying to force it to Wallace, who just dont wasnt fighting or giving his all to catch it. If it wasnt in his wheel house he just let it go.

Our 2ndary especially Gay got torched all night by Nelson and Jennings.

 

[USMC607]

With all of those mistakes, Ben still had the ball left with 2 mins left. Ready for another GW drive. But no WR to get open...they werent on the same page. We didnt even get a first down( I believe). Thats not typical of Ben. His WRs werent on the same page, running wrong routes(few times with Sanders).

Theres plenty of reasons, like losing Pouncey as well. But we can take all of that away and just focus on the last drive. That was where Holmes was missed. A reliable WR for Ben, who just did it two years before. Especially with the Packers missing half of their secondary. Still couldnt exploit it late.

Ya and Sanders ended up leaving the game in the 2nd quarter too.

So that left Wallace, and an aging ward and Randel el.

The latter 2 couldn't get open much. The former just didnt try. Having Holmes out there instead of ARE would have been a real help.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The 1 interception Keomatu (spelling?)
Let a dude blow by him and Ben was hit as he threw, which ben also hurt his knee on. The 2nd Wallace decided to let the CB have it.

But that was all in the 1st quarter maybe beginning of 2nd.

We came back and were down by 4 we had all the momentum and Mendenhall fumbles.

We come back again and are only down by 6 and they just kept trying to force it to Wallace, who just dont wasnt fighting or giving his all to catch it. If it wasnt in his wheel house he just let it go.

Our 2ndary especially Gay got torched all night by Nelson and Jennings.

Ya, glad I missed that game with something more important to do.

Either way, brings up an interesting discussion if having Holmes for that SB would have been worth not having AB now.

Seeing as how AB hasn’t helped them win a SB as of yet, and maybe Holmes would have helped them win that one..

Guess if they never win a SB with AB it’s a little easier to answer perhaps, but no way to know if Holmes puts them over the top.

 

[USMC607]

Ya, glad I missed that game with something more important to do.

Either way, brings up an interesting discussion if having Holmes for that SB would have been worth not having AB now.

Seeing as how AB hasn’t helped them win a SB as of yet, and maybe Holmes would have helped them win that one..

Guess if they never win a SB with AB it’s a little easier to answer perhaps, but no way to know if Holmes puts them over the top.

That's actually a very very interesting topic for discussion.

Looking back on it now would people have rather kept Holmes for that #7 run and perhaps have a better shot a winning.

Or

Stick with letting Holmes go, accept the L against GB, and draft AB knowing we haven't made it back.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's actually a very very interesting topic for discussion.

Looking back on it now would people have rather kept Holmes for that #7 run and perhaps have a better shot a winning.

Or

Stick with letting Holmes go, accept the L against GB, and draft AB knowing we haven't made it back.

If they win a SB with AB, which doesn't seem likely with Tomlin around, the answer is pretty easy for me.

However, if AB retires or moves along, and has no SB rings with the Steelers, I'd probably rather have had Holmes for that SB TBTH... even knowing he would flame out in a couple seasons.

Some would likely argue all the entertainment AB brought was worth it, even if he never brought a SB. I'd rather have a better shot at winning that SB and having seven for the org, than AB and his personal stats.

 

[Rossi Rat]

I never even got a chance to explain how hype I am about drafting Marcus Allen.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Ben's still trucking along as a top 5 QB and people are fantasizing about replacing him with a third round pick because of cap space.



Especially people who don't even have a solid grasp on the player they're praising. He's calm under pressure, which is an element of pocket awareness, but he doesn't sense pressure nearly as well as he should, which is a bigger element of pocket awareness. I've also never seen evidence that he's capable of extending the play with regularity, let alone that he loves doing so. At this point, we might as well just go for broke and pretend he's an amazing athlete too.

Rudolph, if he's developed correctly here will be a good starting QB in the league. Possibly great. Book it. Save it. I'll own it. Now, if his starting experience comes outside of Pittsburgh with zero talent around him, that's another story. But I'm comfortable saying with 1 year backing up Ben, with guys like AB, JuJu, and Washington to chuck it around to and our offensive line, he'd be better than average right off the bat.

Rudolph is calm, willing to take a big hit and has the best touch/deep ball from this years draft. He's not a great athlete. So what? Neither was Brady. Neither was Manning. I can go on and on. Rudolph ain't THAT bad.

And I'll also say you're out to lunch with your love of Lamar Jackson. You and everyone else praising him is falling into the Deshaun Watson lake and it's hilarious. Jackson isn't even in the same universe as a QB prospect as DW. He's a more athletic version of Tyrod Taylor. Russell Wilson could/can throw. Watson could/can throw a football. Jackson is a LOOOOONG way off both those guys.

Run first, athletic "QBs" ain't winning you SB's. This is still a pocket passing league and will be until a group of successful duel threat guys force the game to drastically change. It hasn't happened yet.