OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[Buddy Bizarre]

Warren has to prove he is bell cow and stop fumbling
A 2nd round tender for him is 4.3 million but 2.6 for the right of first refusal so offer him. Willie Parker was a udfa and got 13.6 over 4 in his first Steelers contract
They have to draft a Cb2 DL Wr2 and safety next season

Warren doesn't have to do that. He has to prove he can be part of a 1-2 punch. Asking Warren to be a workhorse is gonna leave everyone disappointed.

Sign Warren and bring in a FA, and/ordraft one in R3 or later for next offseason. Plenty of RB's available in FA that have only 1 or 2 years left in the tank.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Warren doesn't have to do that. He has to prove he can be part of a 1-2 punch. Asking Warren to be a workhorse is gonna leave everyone disappointed.

Sign Warren and bring in a FA, and/ordraft one in R3 or later for next offseason. Plenty of RB's available in FA that have only 1 or 2 years left in the tank.

Next years FA class Najaee is the clear number 1 FA. I don’t think the browns let chub hit FA

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Next years FA class Najaee is the clear number 1 FA. I don’t think the browns let chub hit FA

And plenty of clubs unexpectedly release RB's every season

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He's Mad. His face always gets red when current and former players call him out.

Harris came from a winning program and earned two national championships at Alabama.

Then he came to the Steelers, who used to be a great, winning org, but we know the story under Tomlin.

I’m sure Harris has had many “wtf is this shit moments” when he became a Steeler and it had to be tough mentally going from playing meaningful, high stakes football and earning championships to…. Tomlin football.

So I’m sure it was a culture shock and it wore him down until he started speaking his mind.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Harris has no vision. Used to think if he just had a good run blocking OL in front of him it would open up for him but he just routinely runs up the asses of his OL and misses space to run. He's good when he blind-squirrels a running lane or a play puts him in space but it's usually just watching him try to muscle a 2 yard gain where it should've been 3 or 4.

And he keeps losing weight where he should get bigger. He doesn't have the quick twitch to be a fast back and he's got the frame of a tank so he should've just bulked up to like 250 and become a pure battering ram.

 

[Peat]

I could see this an analytical approach since teams draft 16-25 on average have only picked up 55 percent of the 5th round options since 2018.
I don’t think Tomlin is mad I think Najee looked at the FA class bext summer and said pay me this year he knows that he and warren both fa next year are going to see 500 touches amongst them
They aren’t paying any skill players on offense I thought for sure warren Daniel muth and Najaee would all get extensions

Why would the Steelers listen to Harris on when he wants to be paid?

Also, aye, it's not like teams go 100% on this all the time, but they don't go 20% over five years on fifth year options very often either.

I just meant the fans, not the so called experts.

Fans I knew and the airwaves/article comments were filled with angry Steeler fans in 19 and 21.

“Trading up for a tiny ILB is crazy”

“They drafted this Johnson kid to replace AB when they could have kept their first and gotten that freak Metcalf when he dropped!”

“Metcalf is a top ten talent and they could have taken himmmm!”

“Why would they take a RB with their first! YOU DONT TAKE RBs IN THE FIRST!”

“Pat Frammermouth! That Oklahoma center was right there!”

It was pretty bad after those drafts from the fans.

Well that I can't comment on so much. I do remember '22 fairly clearly though and there was a lot of optimism and that went to crap very quickly.

 

[Peat]

Beckham to Miami, apparently.

 

[wheelz87]

Keep Warren, draft Judkins/Henderson out of Ohio State next year. Success.

As a fellow Buckeye fan.. I am JACKED about this upcoming season. Is it August yet?
Second.. Henderson worries me. So many injuries, always something lingering. Got to see a healthy year out of him.

I hesitate to make Jaylen the guy. Seems he is best suited for the role he is in. Certainly there were a few games - I remember the Cleveland game - where he had about 5 touches for 100 yards and Tomlin was like nahhh he doesn't need anymore. But a 1A/1B is best for him. Not saying Najee has to be the other guy but it will create a hole.

Also Claypool on his 4th team in 5 years. We got JPJ for him lol.

 

[Peat]

As a fellow Buckeye fan.. I am JACKED about this upcoming season. Is it August yet?
Second.. Henderson worries me. So many injuries, always something lingering. Got to see a healthy year out of him.

I hesitate to make Jaylen the guy. Seems he is best suited for the role he is in. Certainly there were a few games - I remember the Cleveland game - where he had about 5 touches for 100 yards and Tomlin was like nahhh he doesn't need anymore. But a 1A/1B is best for him. Not saying Najee has to be the other guy but it will create a hole.

Also Claypool on his 4th team in 5 years. We got JPJ for him lol.

You can make the case Warren should be 1A and some other dude should be 1B and you don't want to pay 1B 5th year option money but at the same time, if they want 1B to a be a decent quality power back how many are there and how much are they actually saving if they go FA?

Economically it makes sense but might be a bit risky for a minimal return.

And tbh it mightn't make sense for Warren to be 1A in terms of rushing touches.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Why would the Steelers listen to Harris on when he wants to be paid?

Also, aye, it's not like teams go 100% on this all the time, but they don't go 20% over five years on fifth year options very often either.



Well that I can't comment on so much. I do remember '22 fairly clearly though and there was a lot of optimism and that went to crap very quickly.

A lot of fans thought taking KP was a mistake.

I wouldn’t say there was a lot of anger, but many fans questioned the move.

I’ve followed Steelers drafts most of my life and fans almost have always been mad in one way or another after their drafts.

The last two years are the only time I can ever remember Steeler fans being almost universally pleased (obviously from what I read/hear/ppl I know) with their drafts.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think I'd argue for keeping Warren, letting Harris walk and drafting a power back in the 2nd or 3rd round next year. I think Warren's extension should only be around $4 million a year or so, keeping him as a 1A-1B with a 2nd or 3rd round RB seems to be the best course of action.

If Harris was willing to re-sign for cheap, I'd also be happy to keep him, but I think his 1st round pedigree is going to make some dumb team overpay him.

 

[Peat]

I think I'd argue for keeping Warren, letting Harris walk and drafting a power back in the 2nd or 3rd round next year. I think Warren's extension should only be around $4 million a year or so, keeping him as a 1A-1B with a 2nd or 3rd round RB seems to be the best course of action.

If Harris was willing to re-sign for cheap, I'd also be happy to keep him, but I think his 1st round pedigree is going to make some dumb team overpay him.

And instead the team would be the team putting a high value pick into a RB who's low odds to get a second contract when there's almost definitely needs at premium positions like CB, DL, WR and maybe QB. I'm not sure that's better than overpaying for Harris or someone else.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And instead the team would be the team putting a high value pick into a RB who's low odds to get a second contract when there's almost definitely needs at premium positions like CB, DL, WR and maybe QB. I'm not sure that's better than overpaying for Harris or someone else.

You're not getting a legitimate starting QB with a 2nd or 3rd round pick and I'm not sure I see the major need at WR if Wilson ends up legit.

DL is valid and maybe CB as well, but I'd be planning on spending the 1st next year on the DL anyway.

 

[Peat]

You're not getting a legitimate starting QB with a 2nd or 3rd round pick and I'm not sure I see the major need at WR if Wilson ends up legit.

DL is valid and maybe CB as well, but I'd be planning on spending the 1st next year on the DL anyway.

You're not getting a legit starting QB with a 2nd or 3rd but you might

a) be trading that pick to trade up
b) need to use that pick for other premium positions because you used your 1st on QB and still have needs/strong wants

And re WR -

a) I'd like the team to have more than two legit WRs, even in a Smith offence
b) Between the odds that Wilson isn't instant legit and the odds that Pickens' aggravation vs production ratios will cease making sense once he gets paid, I think there's a really good chance they're looking at WR again, even if it's in a draft a replacement a year early thing

Tbh, given that they very probably knew they were thinking this about Harris at the draft, I wish they'd found a replacement a year early there too but sometimes you can't.

 

[wheelz87]

You can make the case Warren should be 1A and some other dude should be 1B and you don't want to pay 1B 5th year option money but at the same time, if they want 1B to a be a decent quality power back how many are there and how much are they actually saving if they go FA?

Economically it makes sense but might be a bit risky for a minimal return.

And tbh it mightn't make sense for Warren to be 1A in terms of rushing touches.

Yea it’s an interesting case. I’m far from married to Najee so I’m not gonna be too upset whatever happens. But he does check a lot of boxes to what the Steelers seem to be building towards. Plus the whole thunder and lightning thing with Warren.

 

[End of Line]

As a fellow Buckeye fan.. I am JACKED about this upcoming season. Is it August yet?
Second.. Henderson worries me. So many injuries, always something lingering. Got to see a healthy year out of him.

I hesitate to make Jaylen the guy. Seems he is best suited for the role he is in. Certainly there were a few games - I remember the Cleveland game - where he had about 5 touches for 100 yards and Tomlin was like nahhh he doesn't need anymore. But a 1A/1B is best for him. Not saying Najee has to be the other guy but it will create a hole.

Also Claypool on his 4th team in 5 years. We got JPJ for him lol.

I think Judkins will ended up the 1A back my mid season. Henderson does seem to be made of glass at times by damn does he have a 2nd gear once in open space.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Najee needs to be pushed and motivated. Having no deal in '25 will do that. Maybe we lose him, oh well.

Beyond the fact that Warren is better, Najee acted like a Made Man for 2.5 years and like he had accomplished a lot more than he actually did. He gave off franchise player vibes but without being very good, until the 2nd half of last year. Not saying he doesn't work hard or whatever, but his reputation way outstripped his actual quality on the football field.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[Peat]

Just prodding at this more -

Feels hard to believe Smith would give Warren more rushes than Bijan Robinson, which puts him at about 210-220.

That leaves 180-190 for the other RB, assuming 400 carries total which seems a very common number for teams with a high class tandem.

It might make more sense to cap Warren at the 180-190 that Gibbs got/Pollard got at his best. Which puts the 210-220 on the other RB.

How much are you willing to invest in a RB toting the rock that much?

 

[xlm34]

Just prodding at this more -

Feels hard to believe Smith would give Warren more rushes than Bijan Robinson, which puts him at about 210-220.

That leaves 180-190 for the other RB, assuming 400 carries total which seems a very common number for teams with a high class tandem.

It might make more sense to cap Warren at the 180-190 that Gibbs got/Pollard got at his best. Which puts the 210-220 on the other RB.

How much are you willing to invest in a RB toting the rock that much?

6.79 million

I dunno though. You’re not going to save all that much money and get someone worth a damn in free agency. And draft wise, I don’t love the idea of spending a higher pick on RB with some of the needs I’m guessing they’ll have come draft time. But I also don’t love the idea of hoping for the best and ending up with Benny Snell or McFarland. Especially with how this team wants to play.

 

[Peat]

6.79 million

I dunno though. You’re not going to save all that much money and get someone worth a damn in free agency. And draft wise, I don’t love the idea of spending a higher pick on RB with some of the needs I’m guessing they’ll have come draft time. But I also don’t love the idea of hoping for the best and ending up with Benny Snell or McFarland. Especially with how this team wants to play.

Right? It's catch-22. Nobody wants to invest in the position, nobody wants to come away empty-handed.

My guess is they'll invest something sizeable and it'll be that the problem was more with Harris being that guy than the idea itself.

 

[JTG]

2019 we pulled a lot of value out. That's all you can do really. These guys are evaluated on a body of work, and sometimes teams get lucky or there were extenuating circumstances as to why that player dropped in the draft. I thought Layne was an unbelievable pick. I thought Bush over drafted. He was still a first round talent though. It's kind of why the draft is fun, and I'll say that talking football here for decades now, the consensus on this board tends to be pretty good when it happens.

These last 2 drafts are the best drafts I remember for the Steelers. I think they have extracted talent up to the 4th round that has starter potential in both drafts. That's all you can ask for. It's eerily reminiscent of how Colbert was pulling starters left and right in the early 2000's.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

2019 we pulled a lot of value out. That's all you can do really. These guys are evaluated on a body of work, and sometimes teams get lucky or there were extenuating circumstances as to why that player dropped in the draft. I thought Layne was an unbelievable pick. I thought Bush over drafted. He was still a first round talent though. It's kind of why the draft is fun, and I'll say that talking football here for decades now, the consensus on this board tends to be pretty good when it happens.

These last 2 drafts are the best drafts I remember for the Steelers. I think they have extracted talent up to the 4th round that has starter potential in both drafts. That's all you can ask for. It's eerily reminiscent of how Colbert was pulling starters left and right in the early 2000's.

03 and 04 I feel are their best drafts because they pulled out a soon to be HOF Qb, HOF safety, long time starting corner and starting T that were all instrumental in getting them two rings.

Pretty much all the other players in those drafts were forgettable, but it’s beyond rare you draft b2b HOFers that win multiple SBs.

Pulling two other quality starters that played 9 and 12 years for your org just seals the deal for me.

Thinking back, Colbert had a pretty insane run from 2000-2007 with his first rounders.

 

[JTG]

03 and 04 I feel are their best drafts because they pulled out a soon to be HOF Qb, HOF safety, long time starting corner and starting T that were all instrumental in getting them two rings.

Pretty much all the other players in those drafts were forgettable, but it’s beyond rare you draft b2b HOFers that win multiple SBs.

Pulling two other quality starters that played 9 and 12 years for your org just seals the deal for me.

They hit on 1st rounders for a really long time. They also were able to find guys deep in drafts that turned into staples. Hines, Deshea, Ike, Smith, Haggans, Hope, Porter...all 3rd round or later.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

They hit on 1st rounders for a really long time. They also were able to find guys deep in drafts that turned into staples. Hines, Deshea, Ike, Smith, Haggans, Hope, Porter...all 3rd round or later.

The 02 draft is really underrated… they landed Simmons, Randle El, Foote, Hope, and Keisel.

That 02-04 run was insane and really set that team up for their SB runs.