OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[MrBrightside]

Fisher reads a little like Chuks from some of the scouting reports I’ve seen on him. I think I’m in agreement with the mindset that if you don’t take a round 1 tackle, I wouldn’t mind just punting on the position.

Well they need another OT or two. When Dylan Cook and Spencer Anderson are your top 2 backups at that position, that's not going to work.



Maybe it's just me but that doesn't sound very definitive.

 

[Peat]

Why Fisher would replace Moore who walks in FA. He will have a solid career and can play both Lt and RT

Which is what I don't want. The team that wants to play bullyball should stop pissing around with marginal starters and recruit genuine quality.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Which is what I don't want. The team that wants to play bullyball should stop pissing around with marginal starters and recruit genuine quality.

Yeah but you're not going to have an A1 starter at every position. Some places you're just going to have to do the best you can. It's why I'm prepared that the team will take the 6th or 7th best center in the third round instead of a plug-and-play starter in round 1, because I understand that C is just not as premium a position and that the team needs tackles and receivers too. But if they don't go tackle early, they probably still need to add someone for depth at the position.

 

[Peat]

Yeah but you're not going to have an A1 starter at every position. Some places you're just going to have to do the best you can. It's why I'm prepared that the team will take the 6th or 7th best center in the third round instead of a plug-and-play starter in round 1, because I understand that C is just not as premium a position and that the team needs tackles and receivers too. But if they don't go tackle early, they probably still need to add someone for depth at the position.

I get that you can't get A1 across the board and there will be compromises but right now, where this team is and what it says it wants to do, OL is the last place I want them to compromise. Ideally they get a high end OT prospect and a high end C prospect with the first two picks. That leaves some holes elsewhere but I like their chances of filling an immediate hole with a 3rd round WR better than I like the chances of filling an immediate hole with a 3rd round OL, and long term in seasons to come I think a team is better off having a cohesive long term OL room that requires a WR to come in and instantly be a game changer than it is having all the weapons but needing guys to come in on the OL and instantly make it work, because OLs take longer to develop and require more cohesion with their team mates.

And as for depth at the position - honestly, there's probably an unsigned free agent or two who'll do veteran minimum who can do what Fisher would probably offer his rookie season. I wouldn't be surprised if Cook or Anderson couldn't match it either. I don't feel the need to draft a guy just for depth.

 

[xlm34]

Well they need another OT or two. When Dylan Cook and Spencer Anderson are your top 2 backups at that position, that's not going to work.



Maybe it's just me but that doesn't sound very definitive.

Maybe spend a day three pick on a guy but backup tackle definitely isn’t something I’d like to see them spend a day two pick on with all the needs on the roster. Most teams aren’t two deep at tackle let alone three or four. If they went into next year with Anderson and Cook as the backups, Moore being the starter would be the only aspect of it that would bother me.

 

[Peat]

I do get not being super happy about Anderson and Cook when they have zero NFL playing experience. But that's also the problem with anyone drafted, with the bonus of less time in an NFL org. I can't speak for technique but Fisher isn't a better athlete than either, except he's got proper tackle arms where as both of them trend a little short (a lot in Anderson's case).

As such, I don't feel Fisher as a big upgrade in depth. At least not today.

 

[Ryder71]

Why Fisher would replace Moore who walks in FA. He will have a solid career and can play both Lt and RT

That's how I see it as well.

Fisher reads a little like Chuks from some of the scouting reports I’ve seen on him. I think I’m in agreement with the mindset that if you don’t take a round 1 tackle, I wouldn’t mind just punting on the position.

Then you're putting yourself if a needless precarious position. Injuries happen, as does free agency where you could lose guys. It's good to have a cheap and alternative option to plug in. Beyond that I like Fisher, I like him a lot more than I liked Moore when he came out. And he can play RT.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think the Steelers "have" to get a RT in round 1, mostly because I think they can take a guy in round 2 or 3 and still get a solid NFL starter. RT isn't LT, so you can absolutely get quality RTs without using a 1st rounder on them. But with that being said, for the holes on this team, I really don't see a justification for any position being a larger need and worthy of a round 1 pick than a RT.

Like I posted yesterday, my hope is Mims with their 1st, Pearsall or another WR with their 2nd, Van Pran with their earlier 3rd and a physical slot CB with their later 3rd. If Frazier falls to their pick in the 2nd round, I'd be completely fine with taking him in the 2nd and using the earlier 3rd on a WR as well.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I like Nugent. He reminds me of AQ Shipley.

Nugents size really scares me. He's not a Linderbaum in terms of technique and he's sub-300 pounds and only 6'2. That's a tough sell unless he's unbelievably talented.

Benefits of him - phenomenal 3 cone drill times, which I think is one of the most important metrics for a C, and he has long arms and big hands for being smaller.

Yeah he’s got the nasty. Hard not to like. Agree about size. I only find him interesting later on day 3 (round 6 and after) but I wouldn’t be shocked if he ends up as a long term NFL player, even if only a backup.

Big part of why UM won the natty IMO.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

they had 2 udfa in Villanueva and Foster and 2 high end draft picks. If you invest 2 1st on the OT and Daniels gets extended you can play most anybody at LG and C if you wait on Ot and draft C they have to be special
SVP is the same guy as Frazier.Wisconsin and Penn State have good C who can be drafted in round 3 they like the Florida guy and the LSu C

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Came across this. I'll chuckle every time the NFL promotes its "Social Justice" initiatives/funding

"The nonprofit that bailed out anti-Israel protesters who blocked bridges and highways across the country last week was a multi-year partner of the NFL's "Inspire Change program" whose work is still promoted on the NFL's website.
Community Justice Exchange set up a "bail and legal defense fund" for those arrested during last week's A15 protests. The protests targeted major airports, highways, and bridges in dozens of U.S. cities including San Francisco, Chicago, New York City, and Philadelphia. Their explicit goal was to disrupt economic "choke points" to maximize financial disruption, as explained on their website."

 

[WickedWrister]

Over/Under on 1st round QB's taken in the draft is 4.5. The over is somewhere between -170 and -210 depending on your book but needless to say, I'm sure we'd all love to see Penix and or Nix go early in the draft. Would push players at a bigger positional need down the board to us. Even if they don't go in the 1st, I'm starting to get the impression they'd both be gone by pick 51 which helps us as well.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I performed a deep dive into the Centers drafted over the past 15 years. Here is the data.

22	Average Overall Pick within Round 1
51	Average Overall Pick within Round 2
40	Average Overall Pick within Rounds 1-2
53	Average Overall Pick within Rounds 1-3
11	# of Centers picked in the 1st Round
17	# of Centers picked in the 2nd Round
14	# of Centers picked in the 3rd Round
0.73	Average # of Centers picked in the 1st Round
1.9	Average # of Centers picked in the top 2 Rounds
2.8	Average # of Centers picked in the top 3 Rounds

Basically, it says the Steelers should be able to wait until pick 51 to take a Center. Though I'm not sure how many of the Centers drafted over this period were pure Centers. Where as this year the top three Centers are Frazier (4 year starter at Center), J P-J (1 year starter at Center), Barton ( 4 games Freshman year at Center).

I'm sure some teams could look at Barton and J P-J with the ability to play Guard as well as Center. Though I guess Frazier may be able to play Guard as well.

 

[Pens1566]

Over/Under on 1st round QB's taken in the draft is 4.5. The over is somewhere between -170 and -210 depending on your book but needless to say, I'm sure we'd all love to see Penix and or Nix go early in the draft. Would push players at a bigger positional need down the board to us. Even if they don't go in the 1st, I'm starting to get the impression they'd both be gone by pick 51 which helps us as well.

There are guaranteed to be 4. All it takes is someone really liking Nix ... I'd take the over.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For the record, as of last week according to Pro Football Network, the only team that has a confirmed top-30 visit with Frazier so far is the Steelers.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2024-nfl-draft-prospects-top-30-visits-trackers/

Walter Football is showing the same:

2024 NFL Draft Prospect Visits Tracker: By Team – WalterFootball

walterfootball.com

 

[xlm34]

Over/Under on 1st round QB's taken in the draft is 4.5. The over is somewhere between -170 and -210 depending on your book but needless to say, I'm sure we'd all love to see Penix and or Nix go early in the draft. Would push players at a bigger positional need down the board to us. Even if they don't go in the 1st, I'm starting to get the impression they'd both be gone by pick 51 which helps us as well.

I think I’d bet the under on this. I feel like every year we hear about how the second tier of QBs is going to sneak into the first and it never happens.

I hope two teams love Penix or Nix enough for it to happen though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just for comparison to other C/G prospects:

-Frazier: 1 top-30 visit (Steelers)
-Barton: 3 top-30 visits (Steelers, Cowboys and Bears) and 5 combine interviews (Bills, Buccaneers, Cowboys, Seahawks and Steelers)
-JPJ: 5 top-30 visits (Bears, Buccaneers, Cowboys, Dolphins and Steelers) and 3 combine interviews (Bengals, Buccaneers and Seahawks)
-Van Pran: 0 top-30 visits but 2 combine interviews (Steelers and Bears)

I really think Steelers fans are exaggerating how much interest there is in Frazier, tbh. I'm becoming more and more sure he falls to 51. And even if he doesn't fall to 51, I'm pretty confident that Van Pran will be there at 84 and the Steelers would take him there.

 

[WickedWrister]

I think I’d bet the under on this. I feel like every year we hear about how the second tier of QBs is going to sneak into the first and it never happens.

I hope two teams love Penix or Nix enough for it to happen though.

I don't know, I'm not going to actually bet on it but if I did I'd inclined to take the over. Top 3 should be Williams, Daniels, Maye. Could see McCarthy as early as pick 4 if there's a trade up (or even 3?), but he's almost a lock to go top 10 (-1200 on BetMGM).

Just hard for me to imagine teams like Denver, Minnesota, and Vegas running with Stidham/Darnold/Minshew.

I really think Steelers fans are exaggerating how much interest there is in Frazier, tbh. I'm becoming more and more sure he falls to 51. And even if he doesn't fall to 51, I'm pretty confident that Van Pran will be there at 84 and the Steelers would take him there.

Yeah I've been saying all offseason pick ~50 really is a sweet spot for Center if you look at draft history. I think teams are just going to want to take bigger swings with their first/early 2nd which always pushes down the less premium positions. Yinzer nation will talk about Khan's balls of steel if he stays at 51 and Frazier is on the board.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah I've been saying all offseason pick ~50 really is a sweet spot for Center if you look at draft history. I think teams are just going to want to take bigger swings with their first/early 2nd which always pushes down the less premium positions. Yinzer nation will talk about Khan's balls of steel if he stays at 51 and Frazier is on the board.

Not only that, I think Frazier is just not nearly as highly regarded as JPJ and Barton are in this draft. If JPJ is at risk of sliding into the 30s, I don't see how Frazier ends up going in the 40s.

I have been using NFL Draft Buzz as my main source to project where players go, it has Frazier down at #57 overall.

Zach Frazier Center West Virginia | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report

Rating: 85.8 Rank: #12 Forty: 5.26 Zach Frazier's journey from a decorated high school wrestler to a cornerstone of West Virginia's offensive line encapsulates his development into a draft-...

www.nfldraftbuzz.com

 

[xlm34]

Just for comparison to other C/G prospects:

-Frazier: 1 top-30 visit (Steelers)
-Barton: 3 top-30 visits (Steelers, Cowboys and Bears) and 5 combine interviews (Bills, Buccaneers, Cowboys, Seahawks and Steelers)
-JPJ: 5 top-30 visits (Bears, Buccaneers, Cowboys, Dolphins and Steelers) and 3 combine interviews (Bengals, Buccaneers and Seahawks)
-Van Pran: 0 top-30 visits but 2 combine interviews (Steelers and Bears)

I really think Steelers fans are exaggerating how much interest there is in Frazier, tbh. I'm becoming more and more sure he falls to 51. And even if he doesn't fall to 51, I'm pretty confident that Van Pran will be there at 84 and the Steelers would take him there.

Seems like Frazier would be a guy you’d want to spend a top 30 visit on too. Unless teams do it differently than the Steelers, a lot of top 30 visits are because you want to have your doctors evaluate a guy to check off that box. And with Frazier recovering from a broken leg you’d think teams might want to just double check things if they’re spending a high pick on him.

 

[WickedWrister]

Not only that, I think Frazier is just not nearly as highly regarded as JPJ and Barton are in this draft. If JPJ is at risk of sliding into the 30s, I don't see how Frazier ends up going in the 40s.

I have been using NFL Draft Buzz as my main source to project where players go, it has Frazier down at #57 overall.

Zach Frazier Center West Virginia | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report

Rating: 85.8 Rank: #12 Forty: 5.26 Zach Frazier's journey from a decorated high school wrestler to a cornerstone of West Virginia's offensive line encapsulates his development into a draft-...

www.nfldraftbuzz.com

Grindingthemocks is a little more bullish on Frazier but there's definitely some selection (sampling?) bias at play here. Expected draft position of 39 but he's only appearing in 25% of mocks.

They had him outside their top 50 until the last update, FWIW.

 

[WickedWrister]

Just looking at the draft board pick 39 is the Carolina Panthers who lost Bradley Bozeman in the offseason. Could always see a trade up but if Frazier makes it past them, I'll feel a lot more comfortable about him being there at 51.

 

[xlm34]

#smokescreenseason

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think the Steelers would have to trade up very far to get Mitchell, most mocks have him in the 15-18 range with a lot having him going at 17 to the Jaguars. With that being said, I'd also be entirely perplexed for this team to trade up with their 1st to draft a CB.

 

[Captain Hook]

I wouldn't trade up but we've known the Steelers love Mitchell for a while. Maybe they think he's special. He physically kind of reminds me of Revis.