OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

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Peat

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I'd point out that whether Purdy is mayo in coffee or destined to be Brady mk 2 is kind of irrelevant to the question of "would Purdy have been developed so well under Tomlin if Tomlin had picked him".

I'd suggest that the reason for going down this tangent is the answer is "nope" because that damages the incredible spectacle of suggesting that at no point Tomlin has not met expectations in the Steelers' mess at QB without Roethlisberger.
 

bigdaddyk88

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Bro, he was most likely a missed extra point away from winning a SB agt maybe the best QB in the modern era.

Purdy is good. Very good. Just like I told you this summer.

And if he was under Tomlin his only NFL accomplishment would be getting drafted and spending a summer in an NFL training camp.

Today he would be a manager at Chucky Burger.
If the lions kick a fg he does not even make a to the sb. He finished this run with 3 tds passes in 3 games this is the same offense that made jimmy g look good.
 
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bigdaddyk88

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I'd point out that whether Purdy is mayo in coffee or destined to be Brady mk 2 is kind of irrelevant to the question of "would Purdy have been developed so well under Tomlin if Tomlin had picked him".

I'd suggest that the reason for going down this tangent is the answer is "nope" because that damages the incredible spectacle of suggesting that at no point Tomlin has not met expectations in the Steelers' mess at QB without Roethlisberger.
Shanahan has blown multiple supebowl leads and had a losing record without jimmy g.
Without Ben we have seen every QB is at least 500 under Tomlin and he finds a way to win regardless of who the qb is in the regular season
 
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CheckingLineCenter

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no one should think Purdy went toe to toe with Mahomes in that SB.

He is a game manager who understands the game well pre snap and can work the pocket/avoid sacks/calm under fire. Not a bad QB. But he’s not a stud. Benefits greatly from the play calling and talent around him. He didn’t do jack in that playoff run. He makes some big time throws (I don’t mean uber difficult) and that team (best roster in the NFL) wins the SB. He didn’t.

Steelers haven’t developed QBs or their talent well on O, but I do not think Purdy has this level of success with any other team in the league. Maybe Philly but idk. Best LT, best RB, best RAC receiver, Aiyuk, Kittle, and the best play caller in the league.

I legit don’t know if Pickett is worse than Purdy had he ended up in SF. IMO he might have been better.
 

Peat

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Shanahan has blown multiple supebowl leads and had a losing record without jimmy g.
Without Ben we have seen every QB is at least 500 under Tomlin and he finds a way to win regardless of who the qb is in the regular season

You have once again avoided answering the question.

no one should think Purdy went toe to toe with Mahomes in that SB.

He is a game manager who understands the game well pre snap and can work the pocket/avoid sacks/calm under fire. Not a bad QB. But he’s not a stud. Benefits greatly from the play calling and talent around him. He didn’t do jack in that playoff run. He makes some big time throws (I don’t mean uber difficult) and that team (best roster in the NFL) wins the SB. He didn’t.

Steelers haven’t developed QBs or their talent well on O, but I do not think Purdy has this level of success with any other team in the league. Maybe Philly but idk. Best LT, best RB, best RAC receiver, Aiyuk, Kittle, and the best play caller in the league.

I legit don’t know if Pickett is worse than Purdy had he ended up in SF. IMO he might have been better.

It's very reasonable to make the case that Purdy landed in the best development spot in the league and wouldn't be as good anywhere else.

I do think - rather tangentially - that the machine failed him just as much if not more than he failed it that day though. Kansas had big pressure on him on most of Purdy's big time moments; the OL couldn't stop Jones getting through and that McDuffie unblocked blitz was a killer. I don't think Shanahan and Samuel/Aiyuk/Kittle did a great job of getting open either and fairly tame errors from other guys resulted in a 11 point swing (that punt return/McCaffrey's fumble/the blocked FG). I generally agree with the idea that the 49ers have the most talented roster in the league but they absolutely didn't look it that day. And sure the line between great and good QB partly lies on defying that but there's a limit.

I also think Kansas' defence doesn't get talked about nearly enough. Chris Jones should have been the super bowl MVP, Tbh, you want to make the case that a dominant defence and opportunistic offence can win a super bowl, that was Kansas. Wasn't really on my bingo card.
 
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bigdaddyk88

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Kenny problem is on him his inability to let the play develop to stand in the pocket and read the defense which are at their minimum requirements for his job. Mason took the time to develop and work on his craft while he wasn’t playing Kenny said he didn’t learn anything from sidelines
The organization really only drafted one player before Kenny, with the thought process of maybe taking over from the Hall of Fame quarterback when he retired. Why are we blaming them for not developing any of the day three QBs? Those were just flyers that organization has a strong tradition of the players policing themselves and passing on knowledge and helping develop their replacements. 7 is on record. I’m rooting against Kenny, even though he’s retired, we know he didn’t help Mason at all. Mason worked on his foot work worked on processing worked on his accuracy at the Manning passing a camp.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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If the lions kick a fg he does not even make a to the sb. He finished this run with 3 tds passes in 3 games this is the same offense that made jimmy g look good.

He made a ton of massive plays that got them to the SB, not only with his arm, but his legs as well.

And ya the offense made JG look good, so now we have come full circle and you are arguing agt yourself without even realizing it.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Kenny problem is on him his inability to let the play develop to stand in the pocket and read the defense which are at their minimum requirements for his job. Mason took the time to develop and work on his craft while he wasn’t playing Kenny said he didn’t learn anything from sidelines
The organization really only drafted one player before Kenny, with the thought process of maybe taking over from the Hall of Fame quarterback when he retired. Why are we blaming them for not developing any of the day three QBs? Those were just flyers that organization has a strong tradition of the players policing themselves and passing on knowledge and helping develop their replacements. 7 is on record. I’m rooting against Kenny, even though he’s retired, we know he didn’t help Mason at all. Mason worked on his foot work worked on processing worked on his accuracy at the Manning passing a camp.

You keep avoiding the obvious here, and making excuse after excuse, much like you do with Tomlin’s 7 year playoff drought.

No QB aside from Roth just doing his own thing, has ever looked good under MT.

People seem to have amnesia about MR also.

He was literally being called “Captain Checkdown “ when he was starting in 2019 and fans assumed he was afraid to push the ball down the field.

There were questions about his arm strength and his willingness to take risks.

Then he lost his job to a noodle arm rookie FA who is now out of the league.

That’s exactly why he was booed in preseason a couple years back - because Tomlin made him his original Reek.

History has basically now repeated itself with KP being Tomlin’s neutered and latest version of Reek.

It’s not that difficult to put all this together and figure out Tomlin has no clue how to put together a modern day passing game, or make sound decisions on who he hires to run his offense.

Once again he brought back the worst OC in franchise history and he had to be fired mid season, which this org never does.

That’s how bad he was.

Yet Tomlin thought bringing him back was a good idea and you continue to ignore a fireable offense like this (in any other org obviously).

Tomlin is a defensive coach that wants to win close games and treats his offense as a nuisance that can derail his conservative approach.

No QB will ever develop like this. Believe whatever you like though.

MR could only show off his ability this past season because Tomlin’s shitty and incompetent decision making forced him into a corner and he had to open up the offense.

It is not that hard to understand the issue here, it’s really not.
 

Peat

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Kenny problem is on him his inability to let the play develop to stand in the pocket and read the defense which are at their minimum requirements for his job. Mason took the time to develop and work on his craft while he wasn’t playing Kenny said he didn’t learn anything from sidelines
The organization really only drafted one player before Kenny, with the thought process of maybe taking over from the Hall of Fame quarterback when he retired. Why are we blaming them for not developing any of the day three QBs? Those were just flyers that organization has a strong tradition of the players policing themselves and passing on knowledge and helping develop their replacements. 7 is on record. I’m rooting against Kenny, even though he’s retired, we know he didn’t help Mason at all. Mason worked on his foot work worked on processing worked on his accuracy at the Manning passing a camp.

The only person to have mentioned a day three QB in this thread is me mentioning Oladokun as a side note. The point there is not that they didn't develop him, it's that they selected him and then binned him so quick it raises questions about why even select him at all.

But the focus is on Rudolph, Trubisky, and Pickett. Three swings. Three seasons in which the offence did not look acceptable. Three guys who have struggled to find the ceiling the org has assured us they have.

Other guys might be brought up as hypotheticals or as additional evidence but that's the focus. How the Steelers have made mistakes with three guys. Or, in the case of arguing with you, whether they made them at all as you seem to be the only person who thinks the talent identification and development has been fine. I guess this is possible if you believe the scheme and talent elsewhere on offence has been seriously deficient, but you don't seem to believe that either.
 

bigdaddyk88

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The only person to have mentioned a day three QB in this thread is me mentioning Oladokun as a side note. The point there is not that they didn't develop him, it's that they selected him and then binned him so quick it raises questions about why even select him at all.

But the focus is on Rudolph, Trubisky, and Pickett. Three swings. Three seasons in which the offence did not look acceptable. Three guys who have struggled to find the ceiling the org has assured us they have.

Other guys might be brought up as hypotheticals or as additional evidence but that's the focus. How the Steelers have made mistakes with three guys. Or, in the case of arguing with you, whether they made them at all as you seem to be the only person who thinks the talent identification and development has been fine. I guess this is possible if you believe the scheme and talent elsewhere on offence has been seriously deficient, but you don't seem to believe that either.
Every organization loves who they draft and sign in fa. Mitch was offered a deal frol the giants as a fa so they thought he could be an option for them it wasn’t like the Steelers were on there own. Mitch was a top 3 pick and those guys always get chances. Baker is on his 3rd team and will probably get 25 million a year from Tampa.
Kp was the consensus best QB in his class he wasn’t drafted on upside the Steelers liked his work ethic Heck kp comps were Dalton Bridgewater Alex Smith and Derek carr he wasn’t going to he a top 10 qb the hope was he could develop to a top 15 Qb
Mason was a 3rd round pick who entered Fa and couldn’t get a backup job. Even this round he might not get a backup job. He went to the manning camp and got better but his ceiling is limited
21 years from Bradshaw to ben
 
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Peat

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Every organization loves who they draft and sign in fa. Mitch was offered a deal frol the giants as a fa so they thought he could be an option for them it wasn’t like the Steelers were on there own. Mitch was a top 3 pick and those guys always get chances. Baker is on his 3rd team and will probably get 25 million a year from Tampa.
Kp was the consensus best QB in his class he wasn’t drafted on upside the Steelers liked his work ethic Heck kp comps were Dalton Bridgewater Alex Smith and Derek carr he wasn’t going to he a top 10 qb the hope was he could develop to a top 15 Qb
Mason was a 3rd round pick who entered Fa and couldn’t get a backup job. Even this round he might not get a backup job. He went to the manning camp and got better but his ceiling is limited
21 years from Bradshaw to ben

Yeeeeesss and we are questioning whether we should be alarmed by who the Steelers choose to love. Well. 'Questioning'. We all know except you it seems. Or maybe you know but can't keep playing devils' advocate if you admit it.

And it's been fun playing along but now it's time to do something productive.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Every organization loves who they draft and sign in fa. Mitch was offered a deal frol the giants as a fa so they thought he could be an option for them it wasn’t like the Steelers were on there own. Mitch was a top 3 pick and those guys always get chances. Baker is on his 3rd team and will probably get 25 million a year from Tampa.
Kp was the consensus best QB in his class he wasn’t drafted on upside the Steelers liked his work ethic Heck kp comps were Dalton Bridgewater Alex Smith and Derek carr he wasn’t going to he a top 10 qb the hope was he could develop to a top 15 Qb
Mason was a 3rd round pick who entered Fa and couldn’t get a backup job. Even this round he might not get a backup job. He went to the manning camp and got better but his ceiling is limited
21 years from Bradshaw to ben

21 years from Bradshaw to Ben, yet in between that time Noll and Cowher got to 5 conference championships and one SB on the backs of a late first rounder (Malone), a late second (Kodell) and a third rounder (O’Donnell).

Today Steeler fans roast how bad these three QBs were, and the truth is they were all bad to avg at best.

Cowher and Noll even managed to win playoff games with the likes of Scrubby Brister and Mike lol Tomczak.

In the 89 playoff game, Brister was so bad he didn’t even break 130 yards passing and went 0/0, while Moon tossed a 300 yard game.

Tomczak was pure ass in that 96 playoff win and he didn’t even break 200 yards and threw two picks with one of those being a pick six of course.

He was Tomczak so he didn’t throw a TD that day either.

That was the year they lost Lloyd in the opener as well.

So Cowher won a blowout playoff game agt the Colts with Mike lol Tomczak shitting the bed and missing his version of TJ Watt.

Noll and Cowher weren’t incompetent though, so that’s kind of the difference here.
 
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bigdaddyk88

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21 years from Bradshaw to Ben, yet in between that time Noll and Cowher got to 5 conference championships and one SB on the backs of a late first rounder (Malone), a late second (Kodell) and a third rounder (O’Donnell).

Today Steeler fans roast how bad these three QBs were, and the truth is they were all bad to avg at best.

Cowher and Noll even managed to win playoff games with the likes of Scrubby Brister and Mike lol Tomczak.

In the 89 playoff game, Brister was so bad he didn’t even break 130 yards passing and went 0/0, while Moon tossed a 300 yard game.

Tomczak was pure ass in that 96 playoff win and he didn’t even break 200 yards and threw two picks with one of those being a pick six of course.

He was Tomczak so he didn’t throw a TD that day either.

That was the year they lost Lloyd in the opener as well.

So Cowher won a blowout playoff game agt the Colts with Mike lol Tomczak shitting the bed and missing his version of TJ Watt.

Noll and Cowher weren’t incompetent though, so that’s kind of the difference here.
And Tomlin with Mason went into buffalo and despite multiple turnovers in n offense missing the dyop were 1 score away this season in the 4th This was his 1st playoff game without Ben
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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And Tomlin with Mason went into buffalo and despite multiple turnovers in n offense missing the dyop were 1 score away this season in the 4th This was his 1st playoff game without Ben

Cowher overcame Turnover Tomczak’s two picks, including his pick six.

I know you are used to Tomlin teams being incompetent in the playoffs and never being able to overcome their mistakes, but believe it or not teams can do it!

So basically at the end of the day - Tomlin lost again in the playoffs, and hasn’t won a playoff game in seven years despite having Roth for a majority of those years.

Yet Noll and Cowher could win with the likes of Scrubby Brister and Mike lol Tomczak, even when those guys shit the bed in the playoffs.

f***, Noll getting to a championship game by beating Elway at Mile High with Mark Malone has to be one of the greatest miracles in NFL history.

And Noll and Cowher weren’t exactly known for their offensive acumen (that 89 team was like fourth worst in scoring), but again being competent as a coach matters if you want to win in the playoffs.
 
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bigdaddyk88

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LOL saved everyone a click, " So, what's the condition, you ask? Fields should compete with Kenny Pickett the starting job. "

The audacity to suggest a legitimate QB competition be held!
I don’t see how how you give up capital and pickup field’s 5th year option and still call it a competition. A trade for Fields guarantees he starts
 
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bigdaddyk88

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Cowher overcame Turnover Tomczak’s two picks, including his pick six.

I know you are used to Tomlin teams being incompetent in the playoffs and never being able to overcome their mistakes, but believe it or not teams can do it!

So basically at the end of the day - Tomlin lost again in the playoffs, and hasn’t won a playoff game in seven years despite having Roth for a majority of those years.

Yet Noll and Cowher could win with the likes of Scrubby Brister and Mike lol Tomczak, even when those guys shit the bed in the playoffs.

f***, Noll getting to a championship game by beating Elway at Mile High with Mark Malone has to be one of the greatest miracles in NFL history.

And Noll and Cowher weren’t exactly known for their offensive acumen (that 89 team was like fourth worst in scoring), but again being competent as a coach matters if you want to win in the playoffs.
Ok this why the 1sy playoff game without Ben maybe they win in the future
 

Peat

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idk lol…

LOL saved everyone a click, " So, what's the condition, you ask? Fields should compete with Kenny Pickett the starting job. "

The audacity to suggest a legitimate QB competition be held!

I like the bit where he suggests Rudolph could be involved as well, because he's returning to another three way QB battle.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

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Ok this why the 1sy playoff game without Ben maybe they win in the future

Dude, he hasn’t won in seven years.

He didn’t win with Ben after 2016.

He hasn’t been able to win without him either.

Noll and Cowher won with guys worse than KP and MR.

Malone and Tomczak were turnover machines who consistently threw more picks than TDs.

They were god awful shitty QBs.

Malone only had one season where he threw more TDs than picks… one season dude.

From 95-96 Tomczak tossed 16 TD to 26 picks AND that doesn’t even include his 2 playoff picks when they won the 96 playoff game.

It would be the equivalent of Tomlin winning a playoff game with a worse version of MT.

And Noll rolled into Mile High and beat Elway with Malone.

When has Tomlin ever done anything half as remarkable as that in the playoffs?

You just don’t want to accept Tomlin is incompetent at his job, which is why he brought Canada back for instance.
 
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