OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Mr Jiggyfly]

They have to do something in FA with the DL. They can't go into the draft needing 2-3 guys. They need to find the next Kimo, guy on a shitty team that can come in on a reasonable contract and be a consistent player. Maybe Allen from Arizona, Gaines from LAR, Dre'Mont Jones from DEN, Matt Ionnidis from CAR, Taven Bryan from CLE.

I didn't mind Ogunjobi either but I wouldn't sign him to a long term deal.

Dre'Mont Jones and Zach Allen are probably going to be their best bang for the buck.

Jones is 26 and Allen is 25, both of their arrows are pointing up, so they are just hitting their prime, but they haven't had that huge breakout season yet that would price either out of the Steelers range.

Broncos have about 25 FA and won't be able to keep them all, and I'm not sure it would make sense for them to franchise Jones, but who knows. Cardinals have like 20+ FAs to sign as well.

I think right now my hope for the first pick would run like this

1) Hope one of the first three LTs falls to you
2) If they don't, hope a CB you think is top 10 falls to you
3) If they don't, trade down with someone who wants a stab at the offensive weapons still on the board
4) If you can't trade down... take Bresee if that's not an obviously bad idea by then; if he's gone, then you are faced of reaching for OL/DL (or ILB), taking a CB in about the right place, or taking advantage of some receivers and edges falling.

In that last scenario, I think I'd like them to target the fallers, even if they're a bit luxurious as adds. There's no point reaching for OL/DL if the day 2 talent is going to look the same. If we're not getting a good shot at a true shutdown CB with 17OA, then I'm happy to wait. Ditto ILB if we're not getting a true do it all guy, and for all some people here love Simpson/Sanders, I'm not convinced from the draft profiles. Those positions need depth but if they're gonna be rotational pieces, it can wait.

The team is short a scary receiving weapon if you compare it to the contenders and I'm coming round to the idea that OLB3 is going to matter here.

Tbh, the more I look at it, the more I kind of want us to trade down most. So many spots that need good guys. Can't turn down LT or potential CB1 if it comes though. Maybe some more OL and DL rise through the pre-draft process.

Who are you looking at CB that you would be happy with at 17?

I have 1 guy I'd be stoked with, Weatherspoon, and I'd be ok with Smith/Gonz.

 

[Peat]

Who are you looking at CB that you would be happy with at 17?

I have 1 guy I'd be stoked with, Weatherspoon, and I'd be ok with Smith/Gonz.

Same three names. Probably a bit higher on Gonzalez than you are based on profile reading.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

How much of that is because they just don’t take corners early though? Burns and Golson are the only two corners taken in the first two rounds under Tomlin. Burns was a bust and Golson was just never healthy so it’s hard to blame the team for him.

The further back in the draft you go, the more likely you’re gonna draft a guy that never turns into anything.

Plus they have developed a few guys into useful players. Sutton is solid. Keenan Lewis was a pretty good player. Hilton is solid.

I'm not sure this is helping the argument. The last #1 pick at CB was an outright bust.
Understand the context that we haven't had a ton of high capital towards this position, but in the 15 years Tomlin has reigned, Keenan Lewis is the top performer. Woof

 

[xlm34]

I'm not sure this is helping the argument. The last #1 pick at CB was an outright bust.
Understand the context that we haven't had a ton of high capital towards this position, but in the 15 years Tomlin has reigned, Keenan Lewis is the top performer. Woof

I mean Jarvis Jones was an outright bust, but I’m pretty happy they kept taking OLB in round one.

First round busts happen.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Same three names. Probably a bit higher on Gonzalez than you are based on profile reading.

Ya, I'll have more time to watch tape when my daughter's hockey season ends mid-March, so I may change my mind after reviewing further film on these guys.

I'd be happy getting Ringo with their original second as he has freak tools, but he looks raw from the film I watched. That may scare others because of the Tomlin factor.

He's never had any high picks at corner other than Burns so we'll see.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I mean Jarvis Jones was an outright bust, but I’m pretty happy they kept taking OLB in round one.

First round busts happen.

We could go on forever, but my counter to Jarvis Jones is that prior to him, this team had success with OLB's and Edge guys. We've had high Oline pick busts as well, but overall this team has proven decent at that position.

Actually every position except CB and Safety, this team has been average or above average with developing talent.

 

[Pens x]

It’s more about the lack of playoff success than SBs for me right now.

Feel like they gotta walk before they can run.

Like uh, win a playoff game.

10 out of 12 years without a playoff win… 3 playoff wins since 2011… current 6 year modern franchise record without a playoff win… the playoff blowouts… now in the lowly top ten of franchises with the longest playoff win droughts..

It’s a pretty sad state for this org and why I keep emphasizing that Tomlin has absolutely failed at his job despite this winning record nonsense.

It’s the lack of playoff wins but also look at the teams they beat in the past 10 years in the playoffs - Matt Moore led Dolphins, AJ McCarron led Bengals and Alex Smith.

 

[xlm34]

We could go on forever, but my counter to Jarvis Jones is that prior to him, this team had success with OLB's and Edge guys. We've had high Oline pick busts as well, but overall this team has proven decent at that position.

Actually every position except CB and Safety, this team has been average or above average with developing talent.

That kind of brings me back to my original question. Are they just that much better in developing other positions or do they just invest better capital in other positions? Maybe a little of both.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

That kind of brings me back to my original question. Are they just that much better in developing other positions or do they just invest better capital in other positions? Maybe a little of both.

Fair point. It likely is a bit of both.
I still reserve my right to bitch about them taking a CB in Rd 1

 

[xlm34]

Fair point. It likely is a bit of both.
I still reserve my right to bitch about them taking a CB in Rd 1

Well that is what message boards are for

 

[xlm34]

This is a pretty good free agent list from PFF with some contract projections.

 

[Peat]

"and the facade that a quarterback can only win with a certain play style is slowly fading."

Is it? Is it really PFF? I'm not exactly seeing a lot of QBs operating at the end of the season who can't operate purely as a dropback passer if needed. Yeah, most of them are also threats with their legs, but I don't think the passer thing is done... and also, wow, top 16 at big time plays, elite!

PFF's argument for Jackson solidified me belief against him.

Anyway, time to read the rest of the list.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It’s the lack of playoff wins but also look at the teams they beat in the past 10 years in the playoffs - Matt Moore led Dolphins, AJ McCarron led Bengals and Alex Smith.

I dunno bro, we are supposed to be grateful because the Steelers won a SB 14 years ago and we get to have Tomlin and his never had a losing season awesomeness or something.

Apparently we are spoiled, yet rarely see playoff wins over the last decade+. Basically I think because our favorite team won SBs a long ass time ago, we are spoiled for wanting a playoff win… I think… working on solving this mystery still.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

If the Steelers can sign Jermaine Pratt to that deal they should be all over it.

We know the Steelers really liked Rock Ya Sin in his draft year. Maybe they sign him instead of Sutton.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If the Steelers can sign Jermaine Pratt to that deal they should be all over it.

We know the Steelers really liked Rock Ya Sin in his draft year. Maybe they sign him instead of Sutton.

Sutton is healthy and our best cb.
Rock hasn’t been healthy for 3 seasons and struggles in coverage
I would take Pratt for sure at that number

 

[ChaosAgent]

"and the facade that a quarterback can only win with a certain play style is slowly fading."

Is it? Is it really PFF? I'm not exactly seeing a lot of QBs operating at the end of the season who can't operate purely as a dropback passer if needed. Yeah, most of them are also threats with their legs, but I don't think the passer thing is done... and also, wow, top 16 at big time plays, elite!

PFF's argument for Jackson solidified me belief against him.

Anyway, time to read the rest of the list.

At this point the lowest level of mobility tolerated is Mac Jones or perhaps Tua Tag.
The line of demarcation are QBs:
A) who will get theirs with their legs occasionally
B) terrify you when running

 

[Peat]

Ya, I'll have more time to watch tape when my daughter's hockey season ends mid-March, so I may change my mind after reviewing further film on these guys.

I'd be happy getting Ringo with their original second as he has freak tools, but he looks raw from the film I watched. That may scare others because of the Tomlin factor.

He's never had any high picks at corner other than Burns so we'll see.

Tbh a blind person would probably make more sense of the film than me, so I'll be sticking to profiles.

And based on them, I dunno whether Ringo is an elite athlete who is raw, or an elite straight line athlete who is never going to be able to live with the guys who can turn on a dime.

Also I dunno who were the coaches at the time they took Burns, but it feels like the coaches have a pretty solid grasp on DB right now.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Tbh a blind person would probably make more sense of the film than me, so I'll be sticking to profiles.

And based on them, I dunno whether Ringo is an elite athlete who is raw, or an elite straight line athlete who is never going to be able to live with the guys who can turn on a dime.

Also I dunno who were the coaches at the time they took Burns, but it feels like the coaches have a pretty solid grasp on DB right now.

Basically it’s a guessing game because Steelers are a zone team, but I highly suspect Tomlin wants to press.

Some corners are better fits in zone than man and vice versa.

So I’m personally looking for guys who excel at press, but can play man off and zone… but they are difficult to find, obviously.

Weatherspoon is a unicorn in the sense that he can play all three types of coverage well, he is really physical and can jam guys off routes, plays the run well, and has ball skills.

Add a couple more inches and he would be an ideal modern day corner.

There is a trend towards longer corners with huge wingspans like Sauce Gardner, so Weatherspoon may slip because he’s sub 6 foot, but Steelers would hit the jackpot if other teams are stupid enough to let him slip by.

 

[MrBrightside]

Mixon made it longer than I thought he would have before he got caught for abusing another woman. Knowing the Bengals he'll probably have to sit out a series in a preseason game.

 

[Al Smith]

Mixon made it longer than I thought he would have before he got caught for abusing another woman. Knowing the Bengals he'll probably have to sit out a series in a preseason game.

Probably the least surprising news of the day. His production was down this year. I suspect this will be a convenient excuse to show him the door.

 

[Pens1566]

Mixon made it longer than I thought he would have before he got caught for abusing another woman. Knowing the Bengals he'll probably have to sit out a series in a preseason game.

Every time I watch him play I always comment "he hit that hole like it was a blonde girl".

I'm not making light of what he did, just pointing out what a huge piece of shit he is. And apparently he hasn't changed.

 

[Peat]

Apparently Mixon's agent has said the warrant will be rescinded in the morning. Wait and see. Still doesn't bode well for him though.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Basically it’s a guessing game because Steelers are a zone team, but I highly suspect Tomlin wants to press.

Some corners are better fits in zone than man and vice versa.

So I’m personally looking for guys who excel at press, but can play man off and zone… but they are difficult to find, obviously.

Weatherspoon is a unicorn in the sense that he can play all three types of coverage well, he is really physical and can jam guys off routes, plays the run well, and has ball skills.

Add a couple more inches and he would be an ideal modern day corner.

There is a trend towards longer corners with huge wingspans like Sauce Gardner, so Weatherspoon may slip because he’s sub 6 foot, but Steelers would hit the jackpot if other teams are stupid enough to let him slip by.

Steelers haven't had a man corner since the days of Ike Taylor. I'm guessing their defensive philosophy won't change much and it's rooted in the Dick Lebeau: "tackle the catch, make the offense go 12 plays to score a TD"

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Steelers haven't had a man corner since the days of Ike Taylor. I'm guessing their defensive philosophy won't change much and it's rooted in the Dick Lebeau: "tackle the catch, make the offense go 12 plays to score a TD"

They haven’t made a big effort to find one in the Tomlin era.

His first year I don’t know if he wanted to jump up a spot or two to grab Revis… or they couldn’t find a taker.

i know there was a lot of noise about him going to the Steelers, but who knows.

Weatherspoon would change their defense, but I’m not getting my hopes up he’s there. I think some team will blow off the sub 6 foot nonsense and recognize he’s a pro bowl talent long before the Steelers pick.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If the Steelers can sign Jermaine Pratt to that deal they should be all over it.

We know the Steelers really liked Rock Ya Sin in his draft year. Maybe they sign him instead of Sutton.

Agreed and that’s one of the reasons I asked about Pratt a couple pages back. If you either can’t get Edmonds or you want to try sort of a “get more bang for less bucks” kind of situation Pratt should be the target if he can come in at the number that piece suggests.