The old Rebuild

[BinCookin]

Hi all, DRW fan here. Was doing some research on teams that have been rebuilt in the last 15-20 years.

Was wondering for some input for how you guys define Chicago's rebuild (a little while ago now obviously)

Here are some quick refresher notes I have so far:

Chicago was a solid playoff team from 1970-1997. However starting in 1998 they missed the playoffs for 9 of the next 10 seasons. I don't think anyone would call this a "planned" rebuild per-say, but that is what it turned out to be.

Drafting History
1998: Bell(#8)
1999: McCarthy(#23)
2000: Yakubov(#10); Vorobiev(#11)
2001: Ruutu(#9); Anderson(G)(#73)
2002: Babchuk(#21); D.Keith(#54); Wisniewski(#156); Burish(#282)
2003: Seabrook(#14); Crawford(#52); Byfuglien(#245)
2004: Barker(#3); Bolland(#32); Bickell(#41); Brouwer(#214)
2005: Skille(#7); Hjalmarsson(#108)
2006: Toews(#3)
2007: Kane(#1)
2008: Beach(#11)
2009: Olsen(#28); Kruger(#149)
2010: Hayes(#24)
2011: Saad(#43); Shaw(#139)
2012: Teravainen(#18)

Rebuild Time:
~ 10 Years


The key's to their turnaround started in 2002 with Keith(2002), Seabrook(2003), Toews (2007) , Kane (2008) #1 overall pick. They also "screwed up" a #3 overall pick Barker, and #7 overall pick Skille (2004,2005). Chicago also drafted very well in the later rounds in 02-05. Chicago has obviously had lots of success after this rebuild with 3 Stanley cup wins.

Click to read more...

 

[hockeydoug]

Chicago is really tough to categorize in terms of a build.

After fighting against labor costs, ownership conceded how the league was going to operate after the Chelios trade. Labor was going to be compensated. WWW actually spent on players and staff, and this was generally unappreciated as that staff and front office spending lead to 3 of the most important drafts the team was built on.

When the lockout loomed, they gutted spending because of the lockout, there was no hockey operations plan. They were selling and scrapping everything, there was no consideration given to hockey operations beyond where they could cut costs since the doors would be shut.

Following the lockout, it was business as usual. An undermanned and overwhelmed staff of good-ol-boys fumbled through trying to win and tanked by accident landing the 2 stars.

The "build" was more accident than plan. They benefited from a timely change in ownership at exactly the right time to land "hockey Yoda" and an extremely adept President (Cubs ownership mess). The team was loaded up with cost controlled talent and stars on ELCs or initial extensions.

Was wondering for some input for how you guys define Chicago's rebuild (a little while ago now obviously)

I define it as an accident from 99' through most of 08' and then I call it an owner doing everything right in a perfect storm.

 

[Bubba88]

There wasn't really a rebuild. This Franchise was run into the ground and it was never seen as "being bad to tank". It was just being bad.

Being bad gives you higher picks. Some turned out good, some not. What build this Team was 3 GMs, good drafting in the later rounds and some solid and good trades like Sharp and Versteeg.
After the Team was set up as Young and upcoming, they were able to add 3 high priced and sought after Free Agents in Huet, Hossa and Campell. Only 2 worked out, but Huet was replaced perfectly well by a UDFA signed out of europe (Niemi). It was a solid all around work and build perfectly well. It's a combination of New Owner, HoF Coach, 3 GMs that actually drafted a good Group and Players that meshed well together. Scouting, conditioning and stuff like that Need to be added as is a good Portion of luck (Losing Malkin but winning Kane at the lottery)

 

[crazyhawk]

All very good points. My sense is that the biggest factor though was the passing of WWW and hence the
move to Rocky. This came as a revelation and breath of fresh air to a stale, constricted organization. It began the correct mixture or chemistry that continued with key core players and a HOF coach.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I agree with all of this. There wasn't a concrete plan. They had made a few good draft picks like Keith and Seabrook that were beginning to start to blossom. They had some luck/fortune in the draft getting Toews/Kane and then the old man died and they were started to be run like a real organization.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Yeah, there's a myth about that "tanking" was something the Hawks needed to get high picks to build the team....total BS. Part of it was luck in terms of the picks we did get and the other part relied on bad luck in terms of free agent signings, player injuries & picks not working out for various reasons.

As for the rebuild itself, you're glossing over all the huge signings made (some which didn't work out too), as important as what you remember is the failed parts which you don't remember. Plenty of mistakes were made but the organization just kept pounding away with notable players like Khabibulin, Handzus, Havlat then Hossa, Huet (haha), Campbell, etc. Plus, look at all the players let go or traded away from around 06'-09'...

There's a lot more to the rebuild than the picks. I'd like to think any organization currently doing what the Hawks did for those few years before the cup would be lambasted for it's inconsistency. 2009-2010 was amazing, but it was something about the timing of the roster that just worked out incredibly well.

 

[Paul Allen]

It was a combo of sucky-ness, ineptitude, and untimely -or in hindsight timely- injuries. Does this team draft Kane if Handzus doesn't blow his knee out in the fall of 2006?

 

[Blue Liner]

It was a combo of sucky-ness, ineptitude, and untimely -or in hindsight timely- injuries. Does this team draft Kane if Handzus doesn't blow his knee out in the fall of 2006?

This point has been brought up in this forum before. They very well might not have been in a position to draft Kane if Handzus is healthy that whole season. 2006 Handzus was still a good player.

 

[Paul Allen]

This point has been brought up in this forum before. They very well might not have been in a position to draft Kane if Handzus is healthy that whole season. 2006 Handzus was still a good player.

Oh totally. They actually looked like a fairly competitive team out of the gate that year.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Oh totally. They actually looked like a fairly competitive team out of the gate that year.

To be fair it was only game 10 or so if I recall when Zus got hurt.

 

[hawksfan50]

Actually...looking forward to the next Re-Build which should start hopefully by tge 2021 draft after nosediveing to a good lottery pick from a poor 2020/21 season after which Q quits realizing that Geezers Keith and Seabrook are no longer capable of their former level of play ..and T and K have their best behind them and looking forward to declines in their mid to late 30s coming up and old reliable Hammer and all those hard miles of slogging for Q have caught up to him at 34....yes the window by then has closed ..so we nosedive..hopefully..because IF we can win the 2021 draft lottery we woukd get to draft beyond generational..the one who makes the BPIH (that would be McGod who has the title by consensus for the past 5 seasons by then) look like he has no talent (just as McGod made Toews who was conebsus BPIH after his 3rd Cup) look like he had no talent and was left in the dust by the gorious McGod...But once AITO IGUCHI (currently just turned 13 in 2016 now) is drafted #1 in 2021...thus Japanese sensation who is dazzling as he skates around and past entire 5 man units to score highlight reel goals ..such that nobody I hockey can remember such incredible skill and puck control...ever..that this kid will make McGod as quickly forgotten on top of the heap just as MCGOD did to the Toews brief stay at the top of the admirable adulation list ..so we simply Must finish last or near near lastiny the 2020/21 season to get this Beyond Generational Talent...tge scouts and fans of hockey are already Drooling and wetting their pants at tge prospect of him arriving on scene for the 2021/22 NHL campaign...Of course he will never play in the CHL major Jr. Leagues
..nor in the USHL ...nope..he will pull a Mathews and play his pre-draft years in Europe..
Probably the Swiss NLA just like Mathews did..Only he is do superior in skill to anything ever seen before in hockey that he will smash to smithereens a the point totals Mathews put up..Teams will be trying desperately to Tank to get the best lottery shots at him. .We have never seen his level of talent..The word phenom does not describe enough what he can do on 5he ice. ..but for this to hapoen..that is for us to get into a good lottery position by then and to get lucky by winning it we have to be horroble that year in 2020/21 season and so this means the draft infusions Stan has brought from DeBrincat on during thise years simply cannot be of much impact..cause if theyy are we still may prolong the window of competitiveness out longer amd miss the one who de'yhrones McGod.

 

[SnakePlissken]

They also "screwed up" a #3 overall pick Barker, and #7 overall pick Skille (2004,2005)

Another key was realizing these mistakes pretty early and flipping them for useful players in Leddy and Frolik.

 

[FinnFan8]

Yes, lots and lots of luck. Dollar Bill deciding to hire Mike Smith, who hired some scouts, who, after a couple embarrassing drafts blowing high picks on Russian players that never panned out managed to bring in Crow, Keith, Seabs, and Hammer. Bad coaches, injuries, and bad FA signings that kept us in the cellar and got us Toews and Kane instead of competing for low playoff seeds. And finally the old man passing on and Peter passing the team on to Rocky.

This whole board needs to stop and realize how incredibly fortunate we are to have had this run we did and not take past or future success for granted...

 

[deytookerjaabs]

One just can't use Chicago (or L.A. for that matter) as an example for a future rebuild. There's no way of telling what would have been had the youngsters not won a cup in 2010, while at the same time the team built in 2010 was something we probably will not see again in a Salary Cap world. For that matter, perhaps beyond 80's dynasties (but not really even those teams) I don't remember a team like that in NHL history.

It wasn't just a good roster, there's tons of great rosters that have come and gone. It was just a menacing balance of incredible talent, speed, depth and grit in the forward lineup combined with TWO of the best (if not THE best at the time) puck moving/transition Dmen along with two good defensive Dmen....add that to mediocre goaltending and an weak third pairing. I encourage anyone who recently became a fan to watch highlights of that team, especially the Calgary game which is a perfect example. They were sloppy, unstructured, and at the same time unstoppable...??? You can't really say that about the huge majority of great teams in the past, most of which very well coached with structure & a game plan. It had to be infuriating as an opponent to get all these great chances, exploit the weaknesses in a lack of team D, then still watch more pucks go into the back of your own net. You name it...the cycle, down low, fast break, any offensive scheme in the book they could pull out on any shift. You can't out trap them, can't box them in or vice versa, get beat if you're passive or aggressive. You can have them on the ropes...and they'll just score a couple more goals.

EASILY the most exciting hockey team in decades.

We won't see a group like that again which is why the great purge was such a bummer, but also a necessity for a healthy league. It wasn't until the core & it's surrounding parts became a disciplined system-first team that they won another cup. Something that may not have happened without the experience of being a part of 2010 as well as losing to a team like Phoenix in 2012.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Imagine that 2010 team sticking together, maturing a bit more as players and playing that 2013 style hockey. They'd have been best post-lockout team imo. The raw talent was unreal, they were just kids tho and didnt play the most structured game.

 

[The Toews Era*]

one big key was giving a long term contract to Marian Hossa instead of Johan Franzen, and then avoiding posting for the next 10 years that the Hawks are manipulating the cap with deals that were legal at the time and done by many other teams as well

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Keith contract was also a monster gamble that paid off times ten.

 

[BinCookin]

You guys had a lot of draft picks in 2000;2001;2004;2005
How did that happen?

 

[Bubba88]

being cheap and trading away good Players. Just look at the names who were traded away.
Most weren't traded with the intend to tank, they just wanted Money. That's something old Bill did not want.
Getting draft picks is not a Problem, getting high draft picks is.

Just look at 2000-2003. The Hawks actually weren't bad by all means. They just weren't good and made many things wrong. Then they've had luck.
Signing Aucoin never worked out for example

 

[mikee]

The trade for Patrick Sharp gets brought up a lot, but the team actually made a number of shrewd trades at around the same time that their drafting improved. Part of that "improved" drafting was the high number of picks they acquired via trade beginning a couple of seasons prior. For 5 years (2004-2008) they made a number of good to great trades that brought in many pieces of the 2010 Cup team and also stockpiled draft choices. They then capped it all with the Barker for Leddy, Johnsson trade in 2010, which actually did little to help them in 2010 as Johnsson quickly suffered a career ending concussion which left the team short on defensemen that playoff run, but helped set up the next cup run along with picking up Frolik for Skille the next season.

Feb 2004 - Acquired two 2nds for Steve Sullivan
Feb 2004 - Acquired Vandermeer, Fraser, 2nd (Bickell) for Zhamnov
Mar 2004 - Acquired 4th (Hjalmarsson) for Alexander Karpovtsev
Dec 2005 - Acquired Patrick Sharp for Matt Ellison
Mar 2006 - Acquired 2nd and Brandon Bochenski for Tyler Arnason
July 2006 - Acquired Martin Havlat, Smolinski for Mark Bell, 2nd
Aug 2006 - Acquired Michael Handzus for Kyle Calder
Feb 2007 - Acquired Kris Versteeg for Brandon Bochenski
Feb 2007 - Acquired 2nd for Brian Smolinski
Dec 2007 - Acquired Ben Eager for Jim Vandermeer
Feb 2008 - Acquired Andrew Ladd for Tuomo Ruutu
Sep 2008 - Acquired 2nd for Robert Lang
Feb 2010 - Acquired Kim Johnsson, Nick Leddy for Cam Barker

 

[hockeydoug]

You guys had a lot of draft picks in 2000;2001;2004;2005
How did that happen?

2000 and the 2001 drafts were a definite rebuild. Mike Smith said as much right after he was hired. After the Chelios trade, it was about cleaning everything out and starting over. The rebuild was too short and too short sighted and imploded quickly.

2004 and 2005 had very little to do with a hockey operations plan. They were cashing out salary for mid and late round picks. In 2003, the team started poorly and WWW was stripping out every cost he could since the lockout was on the way. It seemed like Pulford was taking 2004 picks instead of 2003 picks during that season's selloff because of CBA implications (or a grudge against M. Smith's scouting perhaps) more than to build for the future.

It was about dumping costs. Draft picks and retention of rights before and during the planned lockout didn't cost a nickel, I don't think WWW would have allowed for hockey operations to have an extended rebuild. He was stubborn and bad, but he never seemed like one to deliberately tank because he was loyal, seemingly grateful, to his dwindling season ticket holders.

 

[FinnFan8]

one big key was giving a long term contract to Marian Hossa instead of Johan Franzen, and then avoiding posting for the next 10 years that the Hawks are manipulating the cap with deals that were legal at the time and done by many other teams as well

 

[mikee]

Hossa instead of Havlat too.

 

[FinnFan8]

The trade for Patrick Sharp gets brought up a lot, but the team actually made a number of shrewd trades at around the same time that their drafting improved. Part of that "improved" drafting was the high number of picks they acquired via trade beginning a couple of seasons prior. For 5 years (2004-2008) they made a number of good to great trades that brought in many pieces of the 2010 Cup team and also stockpiled draft choices. They then capped it all with the Barker for Leddy, Johnsson trade in 2010, which actually did little to help them in 2010 as Johnsson quickly suffered a career ending concussion which left the team short on defensemen that playoff run, but helped set up the next cup run along with picking up Frolik for Skille the next season.

Feb 2004 - Acquired two 2nds for Steve Sullivan
Feb 2004 - Acquired Vandermeer, Fraser, 2nd (Bickell) for Zhamnov
Mar 2004 - Acquired 4th (Hjalmarsson) for Alexander Karpovtsev
Dec 2005 - Acquired Patrick Sharp for Matt Ellison
Mar 2006 - Acquired 2nd and Brandon Bochenski for Tyler Arnason
July 2006 - Acquired Martin Havlat, Smolinski for Mark Bell, 2nd
Aug 2006 - Acquired Michael Handzus for Kyle Calder
Feb 2007 - Acquired Kris Versteeg for Brandon Bochenski
Feb 2007 - Acquired 2nd for Brian Smolinski
Dec 2007 - Acquired Ben Eager for Jim Vandermeer
Feb 2008 - Acquired Andrew Ladd for Tuomo Ruutu
Sep 2008 - Acquired 2nd for Robert Lang
Feb 2010 - Acquired Kim Johnsson, Nick Leddy for Cam Barker

Nice summary. Got some decent returns on trading big pieces like Sully and Zham, and WOW i did not realize Karp turned into Hammer! Trading away the ABC line, Ellison and Ruutu, who were supposed to be our future at that time, all netted some important transitional pieces.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Nice summary. Got some decent returns on trading big pieces like Sully and Zham, and WOW i did not realize Karp turned into Hammer! Trading away the ABC line, Ellison and Ruutu, who were supposed to be our future at that time, all netted some important transitional pieces.

Yep, and at the time (which is very different in hindsight) all the hockey media just kept slamming the organization for practically every move up until Hossa/Campbell. It was part luck that Keith/Seabs/Hammer developed as well as they did, but it's not like we didn't have plenty of busts too.