The NHL's CTE/Suicide problem

[Craig Button]

plays like this that no one calls out except for the home team is what is wrong with the NHL and their fans

i understand the need to feel bad for players who played in the 80s and 90s. they objectively did not know about the potential issues of their job.

but anyone currently in the NHL knows full well what they are getting paid to do.

Play hockey without the need to have severe brain injury due to stupidity?

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

plays like this that no one calls out except for the home team is what is wrong with the NHL and their fans





Play hockey without the need to have severe brain injury due to stupidity?

Infuriating that there was no call on this play. Even more infuriating that someone didn't scramble Bennett brain immediately after.

 

[Craig Button]

Infuriating that there was no call on this play. Even more infuriating that someone didn't scramble Bennett brain immediately after.

They’re afraid of getting a penalty or a suspension for retaliating

Kind of like what happened with Kadri both times

 

[TheTotalPackage]

why does bettman need to do something?
these are all adults.
they can do something.

they can choose a different career path.

Isn't it an employer's responsibility to protect its employees?

 

[Dekes For Days]

If the sport is not interesting it dies and nobody has jobs.

Hockey does not require players getting their brains scrambled and incompetent management to be interesting.

 

[AvroArrow]

Until Bettman is gone and we get a commissioner who actually cares about the integrity of the game and officiating games correctly, fighting will never go away.

When officials refuse to call headshots, knee on knee, hits from behind, charges etc. as penalties and one team is abusing the other team with dirty hit after dirty hit, what are they supposed to do ?

Now if penalties were actually called when a dirty play was made, or guys were actually suspended our outright banned from the league (Matt Cooke/Raffi Torres, etc) then yes we wouldn't need fighting.

But until the players don't feel like they have to police the game themselves, for their own safety, fighting will never go away. Call the games with integrity and keep the same standard for everyone.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Maybe I'm missing something but why would the NHL be held liable?

This is a sport. A physically aggressive one at that. And these players willingly entered into a contract to sacrifice their bodies for fifteen minutes of fame and wheelbarrows full of cash.

I think pretty much every one of us on this board would have been more than happy to do the same if given opportunity.

Pay me enough money and I'll be licking Chernobyl clean. I'll take my chances of dying young but wealthy beyond my wildest dreams. That's what it's all about isn't it.

Nobody's actually doing it just for fun are they.

I don't see any reason why the league should be held liable. These guys knowingly and willingly took chances with their own safety. There's no gun to their head.

If they don't want to do it I'll take the millions of dollars to be somebody's punching bag until my brain turns to goo.

 

[Once]

Great thread on an important topic that isn’t getting as much media attention as it should.

When I saw the Chris Simon news I also thought CTE and similar outcomes to the likes of Belak, Montador etc. There is also a large number of former fighters who are homeless - Stephen Peat, Matt Johnson to name a few.

It’s a sad situation. You get these guys who make the least amount of money relative to other players, expose themselves to a high likelihood of permanent brain damage and live a rather fast life in the prime of their career. Then after hockey what happens to these players?

Bettman and Bill Dalys response to such questions made me feel horrible for the families. I was hoping they’d emphasize something like greater resource support for players with CTE or their families. Or perhaps programs to help such players transition into a normal life. But no, we get the whole “we’re limiting instances that increase the likelihood of CTE”. No heart, just business. I get it but it glosses over the human element of players who essentially sacrifice their health and minds for league profits.

 

[Thornbury]

The NHL has done a lot to eliminate staged fighting from the game, and it's only cause they know a massive lawsuit is coming. I don't see them losing that lawsuit however cause at the end of the day, they're not forcing anyone to fight, they're all willing participants.

I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt whether that defence would hold up in court. The league clearly condones fighting, as it is the only team sport where you are not ejected from the game for fighting. And in terms of "willing participants", I have read about a number of NHL enforcers who stated they often dreaded games where they knew they'd be expected to drop the gloves with the opponent's heavyweight. People are prepared to put themselves through a lot of anguish to earn a paycheque.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt whether that defence would hold up in court. The league clearly condones fighting, as it is the only team sport where you are not ejected from the game for fighting. And in terms of "willing participants", I have read about a number of NHL enforcers who stated they often dreaded games where they knew they'd be expected to drop the gloves with the opponent's heavyweight. People are prepared to put themselves through a lot of anguish to earn a paycheque.

So.let.them go flip.burgers at McDonald's for minimum wage.

Better be careful of them fryer's though. Might get boo-boo from the hot oil. Go home and have mommy kiss it better after.

These are grown ass men.

They're not children. If they're so afraid of getting into a fight don't do it. They can always do something else.

Nobody is forcing them to do it.

I don't buy this argument for one minute. I'm sorry but it doesn't pass the sniff test. It sounds like the Nuremberg defence for hockey players.

I was just doing what I was told.

 

[Canadian Finn]

So.let.them go flip.burgers at McDonald's for minimum wage.

Better be careful of them fryer's though. Might get boo-boo from the hot oil. Go home and have mommy kiss it better after.

These are grown ass men.

They're not children. If they're so afraid of getting into a fight don't do it. They can always do something else.

Nobody is forcing them to do it.

I don't buy this argument for one minute. I'm sorry but it doesn't pass the sniff test. It sounds like the Nuremberg defence for hockey players.

I was just doing what I was told.

the bubblewrap brigade had decided that NHL players need to be protected.

 

[LeafSteel]

As long as the NHL hands out 4 game suspensions to a thug like Rempe for a blatant elbow that leaves Siegenthaler with in all likelihood a season ending concussion, I can't take anything the NHL says they do for players health seriously.

Add to it that they did nothing on Rempe’s hit on Boosh, and the kid has done a lot more harm than his suspension record will show.

 

[Craig Button]

the bubblewrap brigade had decided that NHL players need to be protected.

the classic back in my day we didn’t need to wear jock straps.


We get it

 

[Maple Leaf]

the bubblewrap brigade had decided that NHL players need to be protected.

the game of hockey is in trouble
young kids will play soccer and basketball']]\

not hockey

 

[Menzinger]

Ultimately there's room for a fairly reasonable middle ground on thai topic.

The sport and league likely need to be much, much more transparent about the risks, and players should have the choice to accept the risks if they do choose as adults.

Things get a mit murkier for teens playing in juniors, but that's for somebody else to figure out lol

 

[IPS]

the bubblewrap brigade had decided that NHL players need to be protected.

If they think this is bad wait until they see what UFC fighters are getting paid.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The NHL continues to downplay the link between repeated blows to the head and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).

"No," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday when asked if the league has changed its views in light of medical studies showing a correlation, according to Daily Faceoff's Frank Seravalli. "I think the science is still lacking."

Daly's comments come following the death of former NHL enforcer Chris Simon on Tuesday. Simon, who was just 52, accrued 1,824 penalty minutes over his 782-game career. His family confirmed he died by suicide.


"The family strongly believes and witnessed firsthand that Chris struggled immensely from CTE which unfortunately resulted in his death," Simon's former agent, Paul Theofanous, said in a statement on behalf of the family, per ESPN.

Commissioner Gary Bettman addressed Simon's death Wednesday.

"Chris' passing is tragic, it's sad. We extend our deepest condolences to his family and friends. And, you know, on all of these matters, we wait to see what the medical experts tell us," Bettman said. "Having said that, I think it's well documented with all of the progress that we've made over the last couple decades to make the game as safe as possible.

Source

Daly: Science linking CTE to headshots 'still lacking'

The NHL continues to downplay the link between repeated blows to the head and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE)."No," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday when asked if the league has changed its views in light of medical studies showing a correlation, according to Daily...

www.thescore.com

 

[thewave]

plays like this that no one calls out except for the home team is what is wrong with the NHL and their fans





Play hockey without the need to have severe brain injury due to stupidity?

Nothing can control that play. It was obviously with intent to injure and there should have been disciplinary action but none was taken.

That play is not the leagues fault. The enforcement and deterrent factor is.

View attachment 839433


The NHL continues to downplay the link between repeated blows to the head and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).

"No," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday when asked if the league has changed its views in light of medical studies showing a correlation, according to Daily Faceoff's Frank Seravalli. "I think the science is still lacking."

Daly's comments come following the death of former NHL enforcer Chris Simon on Tuesday. Simon, who was just 52, accrued 1,824 penalty minutes over his 782-game career. His family confirmed he died by suicide.


"The family strongly believes and witnessed firsthand that Chris struggled immensely from CTE which unfortunately resulted in his death," Simon's former agent, Paul Theofanous, said in a statement on behalf of the family, per ESPN.

Commissioner Gary Bettman addressed Simon's death Wednesday.

"Chris' passing is tragic, it's sad. We extend our deepest condolences to his family and friends. And, you know, on all of these matters, we wait to see what the medical experts tell us," Bettman said. "Having said that, I think it's well documented with all of the progress that we've made over the last couple decades to make the game as safe as possible.

Source

Daly: Science linking CTE to headshots 'still lacking'

The NHL continues to downplay the link between repeated blows to the head and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE)."No," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday when asked if the league has changed its views in light of medical studies showing a correlation, according to Daily...

www.thescore.com

A lot of athletes end their career, have a lot of financial difficulties and end their lives. He isn't wrong that the science is lacking.

I think the league has done a lot by toning down the fighting as a precautionary measure though. Not suspending people for peoples blatant attempt to injure like with Knies is still an issue.

 

[thewave]

If they think this is bad wait until they see what UFC fighters are getting paid.

Wrestlers and NFL have a lot more jarring impacts to the head and really all in all the numbers aren't that bad really. They are bad in the sense that there is a problem but I could find a problem with downhill skiing if I looked at the amount of major injuries due to that sport. I can find major injuries in plenty of professions that aren't even well paying.

I think these are out to lunch trying to bubblewrap the world.

Hockey does not require players getting their brains scrambled and incompetent management to be interesting.

Plenty of Athletes take their lives. Plenty of divorcees, stock traders and the list goes on and on.

 

[hfman]

For every one punch to the head a hockey player takes, a boxer takes 100 punches to the head.

Where are all the thousands of boxers with CTE? Or dead boxers by suicide?

Just asking a legitimate question.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Where are all the thousands of boxers with CTE? Or dead boxers by suicide?

Like … everywhere !

Research published by Jordan et al2 observed that approximately 20% of professional boxers develop a chronic traumatic brain injury (CTBI) during their careers, and up to 40% of retired professional boxers were diagnosed with symptoms of chronic brain injury (CBI).3

A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis Investigating Head Trauma in Boxing

Supplemental Digital Content is Available in the Text.Although physical trauma has been reported in boxing since its inception, boxing still appeals to athletes and spectators. This systematic review and meta-analysis assess both acute and chronic neurological ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Ports]

Players don’t need to suffer from CTE to commit suicide. There are many reasons that players end their life such as substance abuse, trouble adjusting to their post hockey career, family issues, money problems etc. I’m not saying Simon did or did not suffer from CTE but if they perform an autopsy they can verify it. Simon was a good but troubled player. He had talent but also accepted the enforcer role. He likely caused and received concussions. It’s a brutal role to play in the game but players do it of their own free will and know the potential consequences. Any person taking their own life is a tragedy but without knowing their circumstances it’s hard to know the reason(s) or judge their actions.

 

[TimeZone]

At some point, the NHL is going to be held liable for the many cases of CTE, ex hockey players, and especially ex enforcers end up with, that unfortunately have resulted in many suicides. We all enjoy a good tilt, but the question at some point in time, is going to be at what cost? Chris Simon took his life yesterday, after long struggles related to CTE, Depression, anxiety, and more.

Former NHL winger Chris Simon dies at age 52

Former NHL winger Chris Simon died by suicide at the age of 52. His family released a statement saying they strongly believed that Simon struggled "immensely from CTE."

www.espn.com

Probert, Boogard, Belak, Rypien, Montador, Ewen, Greg Johnson all guys who were enforcers, or fought a lot... all dead by suicide.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/list-of-nhl-enforcers-who-have-passed-away-gets-longer/article_6f92c1b6-2ef9-5b07-9a6a-a17e9d672095.html

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-enforcers-study-1.6838788

Fighting and Penalty Minutes Associated With Long-term Mortality Among NHL Players

This matched cohort study examines the mortality rates and causes of death among National Hockey League enforcers compared with matched controls from 1967 to 2022.

jamanetwork.com

It should be clear, that at some point, the NHL is going to be held responsible for this, and that part of the game will need to be limited. In addition, the NHL is going to need to take head shots as a whole more seriously, as it's probable that there will be correlations drawn there too.

Probert died of a heart attack, Montador didn't commit suicide to my knowledge either.

They both did have CTE though.

 

[LeafEgo]

Heartbreaking and sad to hear about Simon.

This isnt a hockey fight debate though. Brain trauma from fighting is a gloved combat issue in very different environments. The danger in hockey is the actual concussions from heavy hitting at high speeds.

Both are moot in the long run anyways as they will both eventually be removed from hockey.

Probert died of a heart attack, Montador didn't commit suicide to my knowledge either.

They both did have CTE though.

Don't know all the histories but folks should edit claims of suicide that are not true.