OT: The Montreal Screwjob

[Gjman2019]

Was just watching the Dark Side Of The Ring Episode on it, was really good....The episode on Dino Bravo was good too...Sad to see his daughter years after losing her Dad like that..........

Were any of you guys at that show in 1997 ? (Survivor Series)

My other question is who here thinks it's a work and who thinks it was real ?

Click to read more...

 

[Redux91]

If you do your homework
Its 100% real
The only question was who was in on it, which was only a handful of the top people in charge AND shawn Michaels who found out that day.

But 100% it was real, it wasnt the "vince mcmahon" character that didnt exist as a true villain yet (the character actually ended up getting spawned from this), that was McMahon the actual owner there telling the guy to ring the bell

And he fessed up and walked up to Bret after and told him, go ahead, you get a free one. And Bret hit him so hard he knocked him out.
Theres actual footage of vince walking out of the locker room afterwards and barely able to walk and staggering needing help.

Bret didnt want to drop the belt in Canada, and everyone knew he was leaving for WCW so the fear was bret bringing the belt with him, and Vince panicked, and that's what you saw.

 

[Gjman2019]

If you do your homework
Its 100% real
The only question was who was in on it, which was only a handful of the top people in charge AND shawn Michaels who found out that day.

But 100% it was real, it wasnt the "vince mcmahon" character that didnt exist as a true villain yet (the character actually ended up getting spawned from this), that was McMahon the actual owner there telling the guy to ring the bell

And he fessed up and walked up to Bret after and told him, go ahead, you get a free one. And Bret hit him so hard he knocked him out.
Theres actual footage of vince walking out of the locker room afterwards and barely able to walk and staggering needing help.

Bret didnt want to drop the belt in Canada, and everyone knew he was leaving for WCW so the fear was bret bringing the belt with him, and Vince panicked, and that's what you saw.

Thanks for the reply...Were you there that night ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Read the title and thought it was about the screw job Bergevin has done to our roster and he was still getting an extension

Bret got screwed. He was pissed for years and that is hard to act out for that long.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Interesting tidbit, Bret wasn't happy with this episode of the Dark Side of the Ring. And when they did the Owen Hart episodes, and more recently the Dynamite Kid episode, where Bret would be a great voice to have talking about Owen and Dynamite, he didn't participate. The creators contacted Bret for the Owen episode, but he never got back to them.

And I have to say, I don't get why they had Scott Hall in this episode anyways. He wasn't there at that time, he was in WCW, and he's out there saying it's a work because Vince would never let the cameras show Bret write "WCW" on TV.

And to be honest, I don't know if the show was still going at that time or if they went off the air already and the cameras were still rolling as they always do.

Nevertheless, this is a great series. They're in Season 3 right now.

 

[widowmaker]

Was just watching the Dark Side Of The Ring Episode on it, was really good....The episode on Dino Bravo was good too...Sad to see his daughter years after losing her Dad like that..........

Were any of you guys at that show in 1997 ? (Survivor Series)

My other question is who here thinks it's a work and who thinks it was real ?

Watch.....Hitman Hart Wrestling with Shadows.......Hart was doing this documentary leading up to this

 

[sandviper]

If you do your homework
Its 100% real
The only question was who was in on it, which was only a handful of the top people in charge AND shawn Michaels who found out that day.

But 100% it was real, it wasnt the "vince mcmahon" character that didnt exist as a true villain yet (the character actually ended up getting spawned from this), that was McMahon the actual owner there telling the guy to ring the bell

And he fessed up and walked up to Bret after and told him, go ahead, you get a free one. And Bret hit him so hard he knocked him out.
Theres actual footage of vince walking out of the locker room afterwards and barely able to walk and staggering needing help.

Bret didnt want to drop the belt in Canada, and everyone knew he was leaving for WCW so the fear was bret bringing the belt with him, and Vince panicked, and that's what you saw.

Very accurate breakdown. I wasn't there, but watched it on PPV. Another tidbit is Shawn Michaels played it dumb for a long time saying he knew nothing of it, but fessed up later.

If memory serves me, this also when the WWE ran with it and "Mr. McMahon" was born.

 

[Deebs]

Saw the title and thought....how did this person know about my buddies Bachelor party lol

 

[I miss Peter Popovic]

I remember I was 8 or 9 when it happened, my father was a huge WWF fan and he was always acting like everything was real. (Don't know if he was acting out for me or if he really did believe everything was real, gotta ask him someday), but I saw this event live on television and Bret Hart was my favorite wrestler. I was so angry about what was happening until other kids started telling me at school that wrestling was fake and made fun of me because I thought it was real. Lost interest in wrestling after that but watching it with my dad are still fond memories for me.

As for the screwjob itself, yeah in this instance I think it's 100% real

 

[Adam Michaels]

If you do your homework
Its 100% real
The only question was who was in on it, which was only a handful of the top people in charge AND shawn Michaels who found out that day.

From the various interviews and accounts, the final decision to pull off the screwjob was taken the night before. Vince was in Shawn's room with Hunter and Gerald Briscoe. And Shawn has said that Triple H said something like "if he's not going to do business, we need to do business for him." Vince was still unsure, but he looked at Shawn and asked him if he was willing to do it. To which Shawn obviously said he'd be willing to do anything for the company.

Shawn also said that Gerald Briscoe was showing him some amateur wrestling moves in the hotel room so HBK can defend himself if Bret decided to fight for real.

So heading into that Sunday, Vince, Shawn, Hunter, and Briscoe knew ahead of time. And they grabbed Earl Hebner before he went out and told him what they wanted him to do and kind of "threaten" him into doing it.

But 100% it was real, it wasnt the "vince mcmahon" character that didnt exist as a true villain yet (the character actually ended up getting spawned from this), that was McMahon the actual owner there telling the guy to ring the bell

People were starting to wise up and more and more fans started to know that Vince was the owner. But that night and the subsequent months brought it to the forefront. And he capitalized on it with the Austin/McMahon feud.

And he fessed up and walked up to Bret after and told him, go ahead, you get a free one. And Bret hit him so hard he knocked him out.
Theres actual footage of vince walking out of the locker room afterwards and barely able to walk and staggering needing help.

Vince did go to Bret's room after it all. Bret said that Shawn for some reason brought his stuff in the room, too. But the other guys who were in there were Owen, Bulldog, Neidhart, Taker, Rick Rude, and Shawn. Bret went to shower and when McMahon came to the dressing room, Rude and Bulldog went to tell Bret. And Bret said they were giddy because they were excited that something might go down.

Bret said something to the effect like "tell him if he's still there after I finish showering, I'm going to knock him out." Bret has jokingly said that he went to dress first because the last thing he wanted to do was lunge at Vince while he was still wet and naked.

And you see in Wrestling with Shadows, Bret asks Shawn if he was in on it, to which Shawn denied (as he was told to do by Vince). But Bret has said that he didn't want to go at Shawn that night because IF Shawn was right and he wasn't in on it, Bret would feel guilty if he hit him.

Bret didnt want to drop the belt in Canada, and everyone knew he was leaving for WCW so the fear was bret bringing the belt with him, and Vince panicked, and that's what you saw.

The original reason why Bret didn't want to drop the belt to Shawn was weeks before Survivor Series, they learned that Bret was going to face Shawn. And they knew Bret was going to leave for WCW. So at one of the house shows, Bret went up to Shawn and told him that he wanted to let Shawn know that he had no problem dropping the belt to him (just to make it clear since Bret and Shawn had a personal rivalry going).

And Shawn replied that he appreciated that, but he also wanted Bret to know that he wouldn't do the same for Bret. And that is what turned Bret off the whole dropping it to Shawn business.

Don't forget, Bret dropped the title to Shawn at WrestleMania 12. The plan was for Shawn to drop it to Bret at WreslteMania 13. But Shawn "lost his smile," and got out of dropping to to Bret. So in Bret's mind, Shawn didn't want to return the favor at WM13, and here he is admitting that he wouldn't afford Bret the same courtesy. So Bret has even more reason to refuse to lose to Shawn.

Bret had offered Vince to drop it to Austin. He had even told him he'd drop it to the Brooklyn Brawler. But he didn't want to drop it to Shawn as a result of what he said. It had more to do with that than it did about losing in Canada, which he was prepared to do before Shawn said he what he said.

In the end, Bret says he stands by what he did that day, but in the whole Bret/Shawn/Vince drama, Bret has said that he also played a hand in how things went down. He doesn't absolve himself of it. Shawn and Vince also regret that day and have confessed to it.



Sorry for the long post, but I've looked into the Screwjob so much over the years. Bret is my favorite wrestler and I've watched every documentary, watched ever interview, and read every book on this thing.

Another great documentary for people to watch is the Rivalries one, where Bret and Shawn sit together with Jim Ross to recount how they started and how they got to where they got.

 

[Milhouse40]

Was just watching the Dark Side Of The Ring Episode on it, was really good....The episode on Dino Bravo was good too...Sad to see his daughter years after losing her Dad like that..........

Were any of you guys at that show in 1997 ? (Survivor Series)

My other question is who here thinks it's a work and who thinks it was real ?

I was there live back then but I wasn't really close enough to see anything better than what was shown on TV.
And of course it was real. There's very few incidents that are not part of the gimmick in wrestling.

I was huge wrestling fan back then, still am a little bit now.
So those following know when it's off script or not.

The MTL screwjob was one of them
The Curtain Call
The Hogan\Jarrett WCW stuffs
CM Punk quiting live

 

[Le Tricolore]

I was there live back then but I wasn't really close enough to see anything better than what was shown on TV.
And of course it was real. There's very few incidents that are not part of the gimmick in wrestling.

I was huge wrestling fan back then, still am a little bit now.
So those following know when it's off script or not.

The MTL screwjob was one of them
The Curtain Call
The Hogan\Jarrett WCW stuffs
CM Punk quiting live

If you mean the Money in the Bank CM Punk thing, he had signed a new contract the day of the show, won the belt and then "left" for two or three weeks.

If you mean him leaving after the Royal Rumble... he hasn't been back since, so I don't think anyone thinks that isn't real.

 

[Gjman2019]

Interesting tidbit, Bret wasn't happy with this episode of the Dark Side of the Ring. And when they did the Owen Hart episodes, and more recently the Dynamite Kid episode, where Bret would be a great voice to have talking about Owen and Dynamite, he didn't participate. The creators contacted Bret for the Owen episode, but he never got back to them.

And I have to say, I don't get why they had Scott Hall in this episode anyways. He wasn't there at that time, he was in WCW, and he's out there saying it's a work because Vince would never let the cameras show Bret write "WCW" on TV.

And to be honest, I don't know if the show was still going at that time or if they went off the air already and the cameras were still rolling as they always do.

Nevertheless, this is a great series. They're in Season 3 right now.

It is a great series...Brings back lots of childhood memories for me....Was a big fan from 86-94 when i was a little kid, and then just got bored , but man i was hooked for those handful of years.......

Even though i wasn't much of a fan in 1997 or 2002 it's pretty neat how Montreal is such a big part of WWF/E history with the Montreal Screwjob and Hulk Hogan's ovation in 2002.......

 

[Adam Michaels]

It is a great series...Brings back lots of childhood memories for me....Was a big fan from 86-94 when i was a little kid, and then just got bored , but man i was hooked for those handful of years.......

Even though i wasn't much of a fan in 1997 or 2002 it's pretty neat how Montreal is such a big part of WWF/E history with the Montreal Screwjob and Hulk Hogan's ovation in 2002.......

And Bret's return to Montreal for the WWE was a big ovation. I was at that show. It was also the night Lawler had his heart attack.

 

[Gjman2019]

And Bret's return to Montreal for the WWE was a big ovation. I was at that show. It was also the night Lawler had his heart attack.

I'm in Ontario and the Montreal promotion in the 80's used to run shows here and i would go all the time...Talked about it on this board a while back....

Saw The Rougeau Brothers, Dino Bravo, Tom Zenk, Rick Martel, Steve Strong etc......Dino's death really was sad to hear because he was such a childhood favorite of mine......Any interview or article i can find on that i'm all over it.....

 

[Monsieur Miz]

If you're interested in wrestling you should consider watching the A&E biographies. Great stuff.

The Shawn Michaels one opened up my eyes on what kind of guy he used to be and why.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I'm in Ontario and the Montreal promotion in the 80's used to run shows here and i would go all the time...Talked about it on this board a while back....

Saw The Rougeau Brothers, Dino Bravo, Tom Zenk, Rick Martel, Steve Strong etc......Dino's death really was sad to hear because he was such a childhood favorite of mine......Any interview or article i can find on that i'm all over it.....

They did a Dark Side of the Ring episode on Dino Bravo and his murder.

 

[Gjman2019]

They did a Dark Side of the Ring episode on Dino Bravo and his murder.

I watched it...It was a good episode....

 

[sheed36]

If you're interested in wrestling you should consider watching the A&E biographies. Great stuff.

The Shawn Michaels one opened up my eyes on what kind of guy he used to be and why.

I don't watch wrestling anymore but I did watch some of these A&E biographies and yeah they are very good. Some very interesting insight into the professional and personal lives of these wrestling legends.

I saw the Randy Savage, Roddy Piper, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels, and the Ultimate Warrior episodes and all were great. I missed the Booker T, Bret Hart, and Austin episodes.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I don't watch wrestling anymore but I did watch some of these A&E biographies and yeah they are very good. Some very interesting insight into the professional and personal lives of these wrestling legends.

I saw the Randy Savage, Roddy Piper, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels, and the Ultimate Warrior episodes and all were great. I missed the Booker T, Bret Hart, and Austin episodes.

...the Booker T episode is really good...goes into how he lost his Mom when he was 13 and his trip to jail when he was 21 (I think it was)...very insightful...

 

[peate]

I saw a Jacques Rougeau bio on TV a while back. He had some great stories about the WWF and beyond. The time he clocked one of the British bulldogs in the locker room was hilarious.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...I'd luv A&E to do a documentary on Sensational Sherri Martel...I bet that would be an interesting watch...

 

[JianYang]

At this point, I like the behind the scenes stories about the wrestling world from the 80s and 90s more than the show itself. Actually I have no interest in the show whatsoever anymore. The booze, the drugs, the pain, and the ridiculous schedule makes for some great stories.

The screwjob has been done to death, but bret hart was a favourite of mine, and he's always good to listen to because he doesn't sugar coat anything.

Whoever produced wrestling with shadows really hit gold. Little could they have known at the time that they were going to cover something that was the magnitude of that screw job.

 

[Adam Michaels]

...I'd luv A&E to do a documentary on Sensational Sherri Martel...I bet that would be an interesting watch...

I do hope this isn't a one-time thing. There are so many people they can have documentaries on.

Sherri Martel is definitely one. I'm also looking at big names that didn't get an episode this time around like Flair, Hogan, Andre, Dusty, Hall, Nash, Angle, Moolah, Rock, and the list goes on and on.

They can definitely keep this going.

And my favorite part in the A&E documentaries is that Vince participates in them, which is not something he often does.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Should also check out the A&E biography on Bret Hart. Extremely honest and good look considering DSOTR had some weird interviews in that episode. It was 100% not a work, though. The A&E biography goes in about the rivalry between Bret and Shawn and why he didn’t want to drop the belt to him, but was more than willing to drop it to Undertaker, Austin, etc to get the belt off him before he went to WCW.

They really f***ed him over.